Defend Anime Art!!

Isukiyomi · Post by **Isukiyomi** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 11:08 pm

I like Cowboy Bebop, my favourite male character being Jet Black and my favourite female character being Ed. The music is the best part of the show, props to Yoko Kanno

I wathed Serial Experiment Lain but wasn't particularly moved by it. Acid trip just kept flashing through my mind while I watched it. ^^;;

Kino's Journey (the episode about the rabbits) - Haven't seen or heard of this ^^;;

Boogiepop Phantom - Same goes for this

Perfect Blue - I want to see this so badly! ><
Millenium Actress - Haven't seen or heard of this

Excel Saga - Heard about it, haven't watched it

FLCL- Fun show with good times had by all

Gunslinger Girls (fansub) - Haven't heard or seen this

Black Heaven - Is this the one about some avergae working guy who secretly plays guitar and meets this alien woman who says that he's the only one who can save her people? If it is, I stopped watching it.

If people haven't seen it yet, watch/read Fushigi Yugi. It's a nice manga and even more fun animated. And watch the Hakkenden as well!

Yeahduff · Post by **Yeahduff** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:56 am

Superlance wrote: I liked Trigun better.
I just didn't like Bebop.
Maybe it was the 'fro.
Makes me think of the seventies, which makes me think of uhg...
Disco music.

Truly in this day and age our children can still distinguish a moptop from an afro. And is today's youth so uncultured that they can't imagine an afro without the accompaniment of disco music?

Cowboy Bebop is superior in art, animation, character development (suggesting a lot out small actions and gestures), humor, and pure action. Trigun's amusing, but the two just aren't comparable. But then there are those who swear Pras was their favorite Fugee, so whatever works for you, I guess.

Sortelli · Post by **Sortelli** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:27 am

I think Bebop's a lot smarter than Trigun, myself. I liked Trigun a lot when I first saw it, but I found the gratuitous silliness distracting. Bebop is smooth. But they're both good in my book for different reasons.

Most anime is terribly obnoxious, though, whether it's light entertainment or "heavy" stuff. I loved the Perfect Blue movie because the story was that good, and the visuals in Spirited Away were all I cared about. But a lot of the convetions of Japanese animation irritate me so I tend to go in to anything with a negative impression right away. Poorly animated faces, sudden chibi regressions, terrible translations, clumsy and heavy-handed themes... and, of course, the ever-present gasping "GUH" noise that takes the place of surprise or anger or fear or love or sadness or any other emotion in an conversation.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 6:43 am

fi13r wrote: Disney for a long time seemed to be refusing to acknowledge even the existence of Oliver and Company, like they do with Song of the South, but for no apparent reason.

I still haven't figured out why they had relegated it to their historical dustbin for so many years.

Interesting issue. If Oliver was originally a failure at cashes and they may be afraid that it will be again, "Song of the south" was moderate succes, as well as other films of that period. I don't know if they're re-releasing their old movies, maybe they're sticking "sing" into movies bin rather than cartoons bin?

Faub · Post by **Faub** » Sun Apr 04, 2004 11:34 am

http://www.animelyrics.com/anime/exclsa ... beshin.htm
Need a reason to watch Excel Saga? 8)

Millenium Actress was made by the same people who made Perfect Blue.

http://a.scarywater.net/
I can't find Gunslinger Girls right off, but it was one of those that appeared and disappeared pretty quickly.

Kino's Journey is just coming out on DVD. I'm waiting for the second disk.

Boogiepop should be out in a boxed set.

YarpsDat · Post by **YarpsDat** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:16 am

faub wrote:All of these deal with psychological issues (yes, Excel Saga is about work ethic, loyalty and afros)

I just lovet the serious twist towards the end of the Excel Saga. And while beeing serious it was still a joke, I mean "a serious episode of Excel Saga" - lol!

Superlance wrote:I just didn't like Bebop.
Maybe it was the 'fro.
Makes me think of the seventies, which makes me think of uhg...
Disco music.

didn't like Bebop? o_

But Bebob is cool, and great!!
It even has spaceships, and a guy with a sword!

And, as for the afros, and back ExcelSaga... (yeah, that's the guy singing the afro song faub just posted)

KittyKatBlack · Post by **KittyKatBlack** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:48 am

To change the subject back to american film for a minute, I remember Fox and the Hound, and Great Mouse Detective as well and I loved them both. And I agree, I think ever since those movies, Disney films have gone down hill from there (Untill they signed up parternship with Pixar, which basicly lets them take the credit for great movies they would have screwed up. -_-).

As for Hercules, I think it was the worst Disney film of all time. The animation was very low standard as far as Diney films go. They were trying for a more simplistic style, almost bordering on animeish, in my opinion, but poorly done. The script also seemed to be so twisted and mangled that if a person from ancient greece were to watch it, they would be appaled and outraged by it. That's just my opinion, though.

Back to Anime. Bebop rocked. Trigun also rocked. FLCL looks like it rocks, but I have yet be able to see it.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:29 pm

YarpsDat wrote:
faub wrote:All of these deal with psychological issues (yes, Excel Saga is about work ethic, loyalty and afros)
I just lovet the serious twist towards the end of the Excel Saga. And while beeing serious it was still a joke, I mean "a serious episode of Excel Saga" - lol!

Superlance wrote:I just didn't like Bebop.
Maybe it was the 'fro.
Makes me think of the seventies, which makes me think of uhg...
Disco music.
didn't like Bebop? o_
But Bebob is cool, and great!!
It even has spaceships, and a guy with a sword!

Nah, Rocksteady was way cooler.

My "Cowboy Bebod" CD-s got delivered today. I bought it as soon as I heard that there's no any giant transformer robot in it.

As for Hercules, I think it was the worst Disney film of all time. The animation was very low standard as far as Diney films go. They were trying for a more simplistic style, almost bordering on animeish, in my opinion, but poorly done. The script also seemed to be so twisted and mangled that if a person from ancient greece were to watch it, they would be appaled and outraged by it. That's just my opinion, though.

Ditto, I think it's woest too. By the way, art was loosely based on art from greek vases.

Together with Bebop I got Tarzan and Lilo and Stoch. For the second one, I heard it's not as bad as others, so I thought, if it's true, I gotta see that miracle too.
As for Tarzan, it's just that Jane looks too damn cute.

Somesuch · Post by **Somesuch** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:47 pm

KittyKatBlack wrote:To change the subject back to american film for a minute, I remember Fox and the Hound, and Great Mouse Detective as well and I loved them both. And I agree, I think ever since those movies, Disney films have gone down hill from there (Untill they signed up parternship with Pixar, which basicly lets them take the credit for great movies they would have screwed up. -_-).

As for Hercules, I think it was the worst Disney film of all time. The animation was very low standard as far as Diney films go. They were trying for a more simplistic style, almost bordering on animeish, in my opinion, but poorly done. The script also seemed to be so twisted and mangled that if a person from ancient greece were to watch it, they would be appaled and outraged by it. That's just my opinion, though.

Back to Anime. Bebop rocked. Trigun also rocked. FLCL looks like it rocks, but I have yet be able to see it.

Actually, I'd say Disney's worst to date would be Teacher's Pet. I haven't even seen it, and I know the animation looks terrible (to me anyway) and the plot sounds dumb even for a kiddy show.

Brockway · Post by **Brockway** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:09 pm

Agreed. What a stupid premise for a movie. It maked me sick. And Nathan Lane's voice sounds awful there.

Post by **Mercury Hat** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:15 pm

Nathan Lane's voice sounds awful most anywhere. And why let that man record a SONG or SEVERAL is beyond me.

Though I would've loved to see him in The Producers if only because the movie ROCKS EVERYONE WHO HASN'T SEEN IT GO SEE IT NOW.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:23 pm

Um... didn't hear of that one... whan was it made?

Post by **Mercury Hat** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:46 pm

The Producers? It was made in the 60's I think, it's a really funny movie. It was brought to Broadway a few years ago.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063462/

Here's the IMDB entry for it, I highly recommend it.

BrownEyedCat · Post by **BrownEyedCat** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:13 pm

The Producers was Mel Brooks's first movie. Gene Wilder is one of the main characters.

I saw it with friends at our local independant movie theater a while back, thanks to the musical. Oh, it was great to see on the big(ger) screen . . .

Superlance · Post by **Superlance** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:25 pm

mcDuffies wrote:
YarpsDat wrote:
faub wrote:All of these deal with psychological issues (yes, Excel Saga is about work ethic, loyalty and afros)
I just lovet the serious twist towards the end of the Excel Saga. And while beeing serious it was still a joke, I mean "a serious episode of Excel Saga" - lol!

Superlance wrote:I just didn't like Bebop.
Maybe it was the 'fro.
Makes me think of the seventies, which makes me think of uhg...
Disco music.
didn't like Bebop? o_
But Bebob is cool, and great!!
It even has spaceships, and a guy with a sword!
Nah, Rocksteady was way cooler.

My "Cowboy Bebod" CD-s got delivered today. I bought it as soon as I heard that there's no any giant transformer robot in it.

What?
No mechs?

Hmm...
Maybe I shall watch it again.
Mechs are way to overdone.
They, like tanks, seem to fall into the 'moving steel deathtrap' category.

As for the fro thing, I always think of disco music; or this black guy on my brother's baseball team whose fro was so huge, his baseball cap wouldn't fit down over it, and since it is a rule you have to wear your team hat, he just sat it on top of his foot-high fro.
It was hilarious.

Fi13r · Post by **Fi13r** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:52 pm

mcDuffies wrote:
fi13r wrote: Disney for a long time seemed to be refusing to acknowledge even the existence of Oliver and Company, like they do with Song of the South, but for no apparent reason.

I still haven't figured out why they had relegated it to their historical dustbin for so many years.
Interesting issue. If Oliver was originally a failure at cashes and they may be afraid that it will be again, "Song of the south" was moderate succes, as well as other films of that period. I don't know if they're re-releasing their old movies, maybe they're sticking "sing" into movies bin rather than cartoons bin?

In case you didn't already know, the reason Song Of The South is not available in America on DVD, and the reason Disney has tried to bury its existence for awhile now, has nothing to do with how successful the movie's ever been. It's because of the N-double-A-C-P. See, the "tar babies" thing offended them so that they boycotted Disney in the '80s until Disney agreed to do its Big Brotherly duty and erase the movie from existence (in the United States).

Meh. I always thought it was a cute movie about the bond between Uncle Remus and the little kid, and I think anyone who's offended by it must be LOOKING to be offended.

Warner Brothers' "Coal Black And De Sebben Dwarfs" is FAR more offensive, and even in that case, I feel the NAACP's reation to it has been unreasonable and the organization has no business trying to delete it (or anything else, for that matter) entirely from the history books.

But then again, I also think there should be an online media library where anyone can access any video or audio content that's not available via commercial means, until such time that it becomes commercially available, including TV and radio advertisements, so maybe I'm just crazy.

Yeahduff · Post by **Yeahduff** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:17 am

Ah, the slippery slope of white washing.....

I've not seen Song of the South, but it is based on an old folk tale originally told by slaves. There are racial overtones in the story (the tarbabies you speak of), so I can't imagine how Disney dealt with this. But is that reason to ignore it's existence? NAACP can be goofy sometimes, but was their anger justified? Just because kids don't notice the subtlties of racism, does that mean it's OK to expose them to it? Is Disney concerned about racism, or is the erasure of Song of the South just good business sense? What other unpleasant things should be erased?

I guess it's hard to judge, seeing as we don't have much access to the film anymore. Which probably is not a good thing. But when you consider American history, it's not that hard to understand the emotions involved.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 8:08 am

Mercury: No, the "Teacher's pet"

Superlance: I still didn't spare time to watch it.

f13er: Amazing. I think it's also the case of looking for being offended. I'm pretty fed up with such attitude.
"Song of the south" - main storyline was a bit boring to me, but animated parts more than make up. IMO it's one of disney's best animations.

Post by **Mercury Hat** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 10:20 am

Oh, Teacher's Pet was based on a cartoon Disney showed on its cable channel, I think it came out this past summer and was quickly forgotten.

I've not seen Song of the South but I am familiar with some of the stories told. I had an old children's book with a few stories about Br'er Rabbit outwitting Br'er Fox and Br'er Bear (I think) and I'm pretty sure the tar baby was in there though I can't remember what happened with it. The only thing I remember is Br'er Rabbit tricked them into throwing him in a briar patch.

But the old Warner Brother's cartoons are a bit offensive. I can't remember the name, but there's one with Bugs Bunny outwitting a black hunter with, among other things, a pair of dice. There are other cases of racist tones in old cartoons being erased: The cartoon with the magician conducting the singer had a brief shot of black face, several older Tom and Jerry cartoons had a stereotypical black female housekeeper whose lines have been dubbed over (poorly) now (one of her original lines was "Get out! O-W-T out!" This is an interesting double standard (if I'm using that term correctly) because there's an episode of the Flintstones where Fred says the exact same thing), and many cartoons simply aren't shown anymore.

It's not necessarily people advocating on behalf of blacks, cartoons which depicted Native Americans, Mexicans and Asians have also been taken off network TV. Speedy Gonzales is gone, so are many WWII-era cartoons, not to mention most all the Wild West cartoons. It's a fine line to tread considering the older Warner Brothers cartoons are some of the best out there, but so many are filled with the common stereotypes of the day.

Faub · Post by **Faub** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:40 pm

OH! That's what you're talking about. I've seen Song of the South but I had no idea what the name was. I was really little at the time. We had one of those hard backed picture books with the big letters. It was one of the first books I learned to read, actually. Of course, I don't remember the whole story anymore.

The tar baby was put together from an old shirt, some sticks and a couple corks for eyes and a lot of tar. Br'er Fox and Br'er Bear set it out to catch Br'er Rabbit. Br'er Rabbit walked up to the tar baby and said "Howdy." When the tar baby didn't answer, he said "Howdy" again. Then he got made and slugged the tar baby. Well, the tar baby was made of tar so his hand got stuck. Some kicking and pushing later and Br'er rabbit was totally stuck to the tar baby and Br'er Fox and Br'er Bear caught him. They wanted to cook him and do horrible things to him so he said "Don't throw me into the briar patch! Anything but there." So they threw him into the briar patch and he called back "I live here!" So they lost him again.B

I thing the Br'er Rabbit story had about half of every racial stereotype you could think of in it. Of course, that wasn't evident to a 5 year old. Looking back you start to think, "how could they get away with that?" Well, looks like they didn't.