Oh man I must be in WAY over my head...

Terotrous · Post by **Terotrous** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 4:11 pm

It's kinda funny, in a "White Ninja" minimalist kinda way. Your writing is perfectly fine, and the MSPaintness doesn't look too bad for what you're doing.
Contrary to what you might think, there is no "Keenspace Enforcement Division" who comes and beats you up if you miss an update or something (although maybe there should be). Anyone can have an account, even people who make crappy sprite comics. And your comic is kinda funny. You're way ahead of the masses.
Just don't put background music in your Keenspace page or we'll have to come and kill you.

Faub · Post by **Faub** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 9:27 pm

http://www.whiteninjacomics.com/

Background music has only ever worked on one site that I've found.
It might work in IE, but it doesn't work in Mozilla Firebird. I don't think Mozilla handles background sounds.
http://www.realultimatepower.net/

In most cases, background music is annoying. The reader might be listening to Dire Straits or something and your background music is throwing off the groove. It makes people not want to come back.

Just because a program is smaller doesn't mean it creates smaller files.
http://www.angelfire.com/comics/falos/thepsychic.html
SOMEHOW you created a compressed BMP. I'm not sure how that happened. I'm actually quite impressed. A better format would be GIF or indexed PNG. Both of these formats are meant to handle low color line drawings without major problems. BMP compression is non-standard (although every browser I've used handles it well enough) and you can get files that are not compressed at all if you're not careful. With PNG you can actually set the level of compression involved, tailoring the size of your file. Photoshop will do all this stuff and it's a much better tool than paint. You just need to save the files "properly."

falos wrote:....Aw hell forget it, I'm doomed

You took a big step moving from drawing for your friends to publishing on the web. That in itself is worthy of praise. It took me 30 years to make the step.

There is nothing written in stone to tell you what to do next. That is ultimately up to you. It's also based on the type of comic you want to write. I've been looking at webcomics from a purely economical/utilitarian point of view. What can I do to make the best comic I can, keep readers and ensure that my comic will be recognized?

The story for my comic has lived in my head for quite some time. When I make the comic, I make it for me and no one else. That sentiment ends when I compile the drawings and post them online. The finished page becomes a product to be packaged and promoted. This leads to a couple things that each have both good and bad results.

The schedule is important. Set yourself a schedule and keep to it. Make a backlog of comics that will prevent you from keeping the schedule. Don't change the schedule. The schedule is all powerful. The schedule owns you.
Problem: Keeping to the schedule makes me take shortcuts that I shouldn't take. The comic suffers. Also, I've already broken the "don't change the schedule" rule so anything I say about a schedule is very subjective.
Site navigation: If a person cannot navigate your site without instruction and minimal effort then there is a problem. Don't make your reader's think about the site. Make them think about the comic.
- Put the latest comic on the first page.
- Scrolling down the page is not as difficult as scrolling sideways (although I have seen some good side scrolling comics and some really good omni-scrolling comics. The artists made the scrolling aspect an important part of the comic, though).
- Frames don't help your site as much as they limit the resolution and browser type your comic can be viewed with. Better to use single HTML pages and copy the navigation. More work for you means less work for the reader. That's good.
- Text must be easy to read. Put your text on a flat background, not a textured background. Black on white is easy on the eyes.
- The top left corner of the page is most important. Be sure that your page is usable at 640x480. Some people still use this resolution. Making your site run on one browser only or one resolution only makes you elitist so don't. Test on as many browsers and you can get your hands on. (Lynx is still a valid browser, even if your site is based on images.)
File format: You're publishing to the web so there are three major file formats (+BMP) that will be useful to you. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses:
- JPeG (Joint Photographic Experts Group) is THE graphics standard for full color, natural images. It makes VERY small files but the compression process is lossy. This means that as your image is compressed farther, the quality of the image degrades. Jpeg performs very poorly on line drawings for example. If there is too large a difference withing a single 8x8 block of the image, the jpeg will produce artifacts that really look bad.
- GIF is a very powerful format that compresses line drawings very well. However, it is limited to 256 colors and will downsample anything else. This can make natural images (photographs) look terrible. It also performs poorly with smooth shaded computer graphics. GIF also handles animation which is something that neither PNG nor Jpeg can do. GIF has the problem that Compuserve has patented the compression format and requires a license fee from any software that generates the format. Compuserve has also threatened to require license fees from any site that uses them. NOTHING has ever come of this, though. People still use GIF with impunity and Photoshop still generates them. It's all legal nonsense anyway so don't worry about men in suits knocking at your door.
- PNG has similar capabilities to GIF. It was originally made because of the legal problems with GIF compression and PNG can actually provide better compression for low color (indexed) images than GIF. PNG can also save 24-bit, photographic color which is something GIF can't do. The problem is, it doesn't do this well. PNG performs best when you index to just a few colors (2 for straight black and white will do it).
- BMP is a Microsoft format that everyone handles because Microsoft owns 90% of the computer world. Everyone has BMPs on their computer or has worked with a computer that does. The problem is, BMPs are not compressed by default. For this reason, they do not perform well on the web. BMP compression is horribly non-standard. There are hundreds of methods for compressing BMPs because it tries to be everying. For this reason, you can't really be sure how well a compressed BMP will perform against GIF or PNG. It's better to avoid this format for the web.
Critiques: The rule of thumb is to ask for critiques when you have at least 10 comics or 5 weeks of comics. Everybody has a different thumb, though. (I will tell you 20 comics before asking for critique, but I'm not everybody.) Don't be afraid of harsh criticism. Don't be afraid to tell off anyone who outright attacks you. If someone is trying to help they are doing you a favor. At the same time, set boundaries. Tell the critiquers what you want critiqued, what you think are your good and bad points and so on.
Hiatus means stopping your comic for a period of time with the intent of doing more later. This is usually used to fix burnout or writer's block. Just put the comic aside and come back when you feel better able to deal with it. Please don't do this without warning. Please don't do this very often. If your comic disappears for two weeks your readers will disappear too. This goes right alone with the schedule.
Tools: Whatever you can use to get your comic from your head to the web is a good tool. Use what you like. It's up to you. However, you will probably get better results if you listen when people suggest tools for you.

Read these forums, ask questions and read comments. Many of these people have been doing comics for a long time. They might have insights that you can use. They could also just redirect an interesting topic to something completely off base too. Remember, they're just people like you. They do comics, like you.

I make longs posts too. 8)

Terotrous · Post by **Terotrous** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 10:38 pm

faub wrote:You took a big step moving from drawing for your friends to publishing on the web. That in itself is worthy of praise. It took me 30 years to make the step.

Wait a minute... so you're like 45 years old?

Contrary to what you might think, art isn't under that much scrutiny. People do read my comic, after all.

Taiwanimation · Post by **Taiwanimation** » Sun Nov 09, 2003 11:27 pm

How much of that has to do with the fact that te web wasn't around 30 years ago?

Yeahduff · Post by **Yeahduff** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:27 am

Everyone looks at webcomics for different reasons. Some people demand highly detailed, purely handdrawn images with smooth, flawless articulation and perfect anatomy, while others are OK with crudely drawn disembodied heads if the writing's good. I'll be honest with you: I'm not gonna look at a comic that is just stick figures. I need a comic with interesting visual stimulus. Captain Suppository (suppository.keenspace.com) is as crude as I'll go. But don't let that discourage you. I know at least three comics that are stick figures, and they do well. As they all say: Do this for yourself, not for anyone else. Hmmmm.... lost the point there somewhere, but, oh well.

YarpsDat · Post by **YarpsDat** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:33 am

faub wrote:You took a big step moving from drawing for your friends to publishing on the web. That in itself is worthy of praise. It took me 30 years to make the step.

It took me one year to make a step the opposite way.

And I'm one of them weird people that take comic/webcomics as a form of art.

As for scanning vs pencils
look here,
read the whole thing, and don't be afraid to play with photoshop.

Really, I can see no reason anyone would preffer Paintbrush over Photoshop.

Phalanx · Post by **Phalanx** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:47 am

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I find art the more important attribute in a comic... at first, anyway. Call me shallow, but I shall explain why:

This is from my own experience.

When I first started the Jaded, this comic writer (who shall remain unnamed) started writing to me repeatedly and proposing a collaboration. She couldn't draw, but professed herself a 'really talented writer' and projected that we both could get very far if we teamed up. She herself already did a comic- a stick figure one.

I had a look at her stick-figure comic, and to be honest, the art was not really my kind(The poorly compressed grainy MS paint made stick figures). However the writing was actually quite passable- I'd say it was almost on par with falos's writing. In a nutshell- It was funny enough to make you laugh.

But since I was perfectly capable of doing my writing myself thankyouverymuch and I already had my own adventure comic, I certainly had no interest in doing a gag-strip. (My forte lies elsewhere, and certainly not in humour). Besides, she was way too pushy for my liking and it took repeated and very firm nos from me before she got the message that I wasn't interested. Even then she grabbed every chance she could to try and make me change my mind until I got quite irritated.

That was back in July. As the months passed by, I kept an eye on her comic out of curiosity. She ethusiastically installed a tag-board after seeing me do the same and waited for legions of adoring fans to start sending feedback.

And waited. And waited. After a period of 4 months, the number of entries on her board were as follows:

1 vague 'cool comic' comment'
4 uncommital messages from me, mainly because she kept pestering me to post there, so I did it to make her stop with having to resorting to actually blocking her
1 angry message from her ex-partner, some other person I didn't know, accusing her of stealing his ideas.
8 messages from herself to her non-existent legion of adoring fans.
1 message from her baby brother

At first she updated every day, but after a while, updates began to thin... and thin and thin... until she stopped updating altogether.

My best guess would be that the lack of response sapped away at her will to do her comic.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make here is that, if she had had better art, I would say she might have succeeded. You see, although her writing could have been called good, no one bothered to read her comic because they never cared to try.

Good art will draw readers. It induces them to take that vital first step- to read the first strip. If you're writing's good-then they stay.

But most importantly, they need to read the first strip first.

I have found that that's always the case. In the few (admittedly not that many) letters I have gotten from readers, the one thing they all had in common was this phrase:

'The first thing that drew me to the comic was the art... blah blah blah gritty style blah blah colour blah blah and so on... but the storyline's pretty intriguing as well."

Writers can wax lyrical about their writing skills all they want, but in the end, if no one even tries the comic, it won't matter, will it? Fish have to bite at the bait before they can be hooked.

I don't know if you've read Scott McCloud's ever famous 'Understanding Comics', but if you have, he uses an apple analogy to explain this.

The art of a comic is the skin of the apple. If it is brightly coloured, new and shiny, more people will reach for it and bite into it. The writing, however, is the flesh of the apple. If the writing is bad, they spit it out and go away, if it's good, they continue eating the apple. However, if the skin of the apple is spotted, wrinkled and just plain ugly, very very few people will ever try the apple and find out how sweet it really is.

He actually has more layers into the anology, but I'm just simplifying it here.

Anyway, I think this post has gone on for long enough. To sum it up before my insatiable appertite for ranting goes on and on-

You don't need to be a Fred Ghallagher or a Ian McConville, but you do need at least mediocre art to really be successful. (See Schlock Mercenary and compare with today's work. The early art was what I'd call middle-to-higher-end of mediocre, but what he draws now puts me in awe. Granted, it's the writing that makes his work truly great, but I'd be willing to bet 10 pieces of fan art that he couldn't have done it with stick figures.

And the end. Really. Remember, these are just my opinions, (my very honest 'unminced' opiinons, maybe) and anyone is welcome to produce a rebuttal.

Happy Webcomicking!

Prism · Post by **Prism** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 12:30 pm

I can't belive I read this whole thread...

Anyway, I believe that if you think art isn't important in comic, then you should be a writer instead. A comic uses both narritive/text and art, even if the art is crude stick figures. But, good art can convey more emotion in a panel than just words alone. You know, that whole "picture worth a thousand words" thing. There is nothing stopping you from doing a crude art comic, I would be aware that the first impression people get from that is probably less enthusiastic than you'd like.

I had a comic that I did (when I did my webcomic before I stopped it after a year and a half) and one strip in perticular is very relavent to this subject. It pains me that I don't have it anymore as the latest strips were simply deleted (though I still have the original art on paper *somewhere*~), but it was of a character trying to run away at the sight of something that scared her. I drew her expression very well, and I actually got two emails about it; one said I was getting very good at expressions, and another said they simply liked it, which may or may not of been because of the neato-speedo expression I drew, but keep in mind I didn't get emails on any comics in perticuliar. Because I don't have that comic anymore, I did find this one to illustrate in a very, admittedly, stupid/patroniazing way, so please keep it in mind~

Which would you prefer? Of course, unless you have a personal bias (either for or against one of them) or something to gain, the majority would choose the right one. This kind of much more refined art/style than cruder examples gives more expressions and conveys more emotion, even if that emotion is humor, as I said in the paragraph above.

Phalanx said: Stuff about collaboration

Very interesting; I've had two experiences with a collaboration. One was with a friend who had a very good imagination and is just plain smart who I wanted him to help with a comic I was doing called Halo Lockdown. He reluctantly helped me, him being busy with other things, and basically, he gave me one really good brainstorming session about my story and he further helped me along by asking the right questions, forcing me to put things early in the comic that wouldn't quite make sense untill later (you know, like most good storys do~). I even did dual-post layout for the site (a-la Megatokyo) with him getting to say something. He just never did say anything other than once for the inital upload of the site. He was great help, just too busy. He's since moved away to another state.
The other experience was in the KeenSpace forums to collaborate for a comic, with each doing a page in a round-robin fasion. Due to total lack of cordination, I withdrew what I knew was a doomed project. I think that comic still is online, but I'm unsure how many pages were done... Perhaps someone here knows of it.

Faub wrote:
The story for my comic has lived in my head for quite some time. When I make the comic, I make it for me and no one else. That sentiment ends when I compile the drawings and post them online. The finished page becomes a product to be packaged and promoted. This leads to a couple things that each have both good and bad results.

I very much agree; the webcomic I used to do was called Owen and Gwen, and was an adult-themed comic with razor thin plot. It was mainly a stupidly-funny comic with nudity. It was even semi-popular.
BUT, in real life, where you actually live life, people would see my art (not the adult stuff) and comment on how good it is. Too often at the beginning I would say I had a webcomic, and then the obvious question followed: "What is it?"
"Shit" I would think. 99% of the people who were interested in my art were not people who I would want to think of me as a smut artist. I basically just waved them away with "I'd rather not say" or some shit, but as this kept happening, I realized that this wasn't what I wanted. This is when, as Faub is saying, I wasn't "I make it for me and no one else". Some other personal things along with this revalation made me pull the plug quickly, and though I have no regreats for doing a smut-comic, I'll not do it again in that callibur, at least, not without myself changing.
I'm thinking of a Final Fantasy 7 parody comic, as they were the most popular thing people liked on Owen and Gwen, and I even did some 'concept art' that may turn into site art/character page art. Note that this art is purposly 'sexy' and will not turn into 'smutty' in the comic itself.
http://members.cox.net/omnislash/sexyshit.gif

This time, I'm going to do something I can be proud of (whenever I start it, not for awhile yet), and something that "I make it for me and no one else", or at least not embarresing to show to others. I don't see how I can go wrong; I've gotten a ton of love about the FF7 comics I did, and most of them were adult but not smutty.
Okay, so the above was abit off topic, but this thread is so discussion-full, I'll throw it in.

Faub wrote:
The top left corner of the page is most important. Be sure that your page is usable at 640x480. Some people still use this resolution. Making your site run on one browser only or one resolution only makes you elitist so don't. Test on as many browsers and you can get your hands on. (Lynx is still a valid browser, even if your site is based on images.)

If you want maximum compatability, go for 640x80 as min resolution. However, I've gone to 800x600 as a minimum now, since I don't care to cater to every browser/pc out there. If you disagree, then you can take your ISA cards and AT PC outside and play

falos wrote:
I do have photoshop 7.0, and I know it well enuf. Thing is, these took up way too much memory for the 20 MG from angelfire.

You don't seem to know it well enough if you can't adjust brightness/contrast or Levels in Photoshop to make your pencil scans as well as, for example, I can in the above a image a few paragraphs back. Also, as Faub said, look into those image formats; my entire ~200 comic archive when I sized it once was only 13.8 MB.

EDIT: And this just occured to me; this non-plus of art over writting doesn't stem from your own ability (or inability) to draw, does it?

YarpsDat · Post by **YarpsDat** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 1:54 pm

Prism wrote:I can't belive I read this whole thread...

Me neither.
I guess that first post of epical proportions makes something with people.

Prism wrote:
Phalanx said: Stuff about collaboration
[... good experience...]
[... bad experience...]
KeenSpace forums[...]
Perhaps someone here knows of it.

Perhaps.
Do you mean that Artistica Severalla thread?
If so, then it eventually evolved into ComicWriterX, and it's rather cool.

YarpsDat · Post by **YarpsDat** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:53 pm

1. your question was "should I?" right?
Then the answer is:"it's not us who should make the decision- it is you"

2.B&W works better as GIF or PNG.
JPG suck, unless you do a lot of gradients, smudging and fancy shading.
Did you read that other thread I reccomender? We talked about files and optymization there.

3. as for your 133+ 5|K331z...
it's just that your

I do have photoshop 7.0,[...] these took up way too much memory [...] 20 MG [...] I went into MS Paint.

is just hilarious.
It's like saying, saying...

I do have a knife [...] but I like meat sliced [...] so I use a stone with sharp edge.

It's hard to believe you're an expert cook after hearing something like this.

Prism · Post by **Prism** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 3:56 pm

YarpsDat wrote: Perhaps.
Do you mean that Artistica Severalla thread?
If so, then it eventually evolved into ComicWriterX, and it's rather cool.

Yes, that's it, I'm pretty sure... well, no, that has to be it. I remember them registering the account comicwriterx.

falos wrote:
Now, Prism mentioned my photoshop S|<illz, which didn't lighten/darken. I have no idea where you got that idea.

I got that from the link in your first post of the 5 comics you did, with two of them being in very speckled/*dark* pencil, which I scan in too, but then clean up using Photoshop.
Also, the images I've seen that you've linked to (the first 4 anyway that you recomended I see) aren't *that* impressive; it looks like just alot of filters.

falos wrote:
However, posting sayings is pretty weak VS comics.

What is this in reference to/mean?

falos wrote:'stick figure death theatre', which prolly still exists

It does, somehow~ 8)

In the end, there is no 'correct' answer; it is your comic and do with it what you will, but it is my opinion that the art/style shouldn't be written off so quickly.

Phalanx · Post by **Phalanx** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:52 pm

YarpsDat wrote: 3. as for your 133+ 5|K331z...
it's just that your
I do have photoshop 7.0,[...] these took up way too much memory [...] 20 MG [...] I went into MS Paint.
is just hilarious.
It's like saying, saying...
I do have a knife [...] but I like meat sliced [...] so I use a stone with sharp edge.
It's hard to believe you're an expert cook after hearing something like this.

I did notice that one, Yarps. But my post was long enough at it was I didn't bother saying anything.

But the point is valid. If your photoshop files are 20 MB you obviously don't know what file optimization is, and therefore you are not quite up to '133t' level yet. (stupid cracker wannabe language, 133t.) Hell, even my .psd files aren't 20 MB, and those are in full colour, at 1040 x 1670, and have something like 10 layers not including text. And what do they optimize to? a 100kb jpg. Heh. MS paint could never do that.

But I'm forgetting my point . Like I said, you obviously don't know what optimization is, so here's the crash course.

You're using Photoshop 7, same as me, so to optimise- get your picture, select File... Save For Web (Shortcut key is Alt+Shift+Ctr+S), adjust the quality setting at the side and check the images size (They'll put them at the bottom of the preview). Pick one you like with the file size you like and save. Nuff said.

Phalanx · Post by **Phalanx** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:20 pm

Thanx.
"However, I think it is YOU my friend that is confused!"*

*Picture of Al-Sahaf, former Iraqi Misinformation Minister pops into mind*
*shakes head to clear it*
*Akhem* (Sorry Yarps, I just couldn't resist)
You're welcome, darling

Hmm.. I sure as hell don't recall ever saying that you were confused (so why the 'YOU'?), but I will admit I was confused by you, if you will that you were confusing

Aren't we being confusing now

Anyway here's the confusing line:

I do have photoshop 7.0, and I know it well enuf. Thing is, these took up way too much memory for the 20 MG from angelfire.

In terms of logic, what you were actually saying by that sentence is:

A) I have photoshop -->statement 1
B) I know how to use it --> statement 2
C) I used photoshop to make my pictures --> implied by statement 1 and 2
D) The pictures I made from using Photoshop took up way too much diskspace (not memory) for the 20 MG limit from Angelfire.
Final implication:
E) Photoshop images take up a lot of diskspace.

Being the writer that you are, one should be careful how you phrase things. Especially around logicians.

Despite the fact, pictures like what I've seen of yours should NOT take up anything even near 1MB. As for Angelfire not being able to handle the files- hah. I used Tripod for my mirror site and they have the same 20MB file limit, so I know perfectly well what you're talking about. I haven't even filled up half of my diskspace yet, and I have almost 100 comics in there.

What you could do is just optimise your pics and delete the offending 4MB ones. No big deal.

Erm... how many comics have you done in total anyway? You said 9 but you did more than that in the other account, right?

... ooo! Fanmail! 'scuse me, gotta go

Terotrous · Post by **Terotrous** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 8:07 pm

falos wrote:So. I checked out whiteninja.com...

How old is the person who draws it? I got about 50 of them down and wasn't really able to laugh. Is it some hidden humor? I noticed in one he kills a bird on the edge of a trampoline; is that an adult hinting at the way they build those and the danger, liability whole thing, or is it a 5-year old who knows they hurt? I was really confused.

It's funny in a "I'm drunk" or "It's 2AM" kinda way. Apparently they are actually deep. I think it's funny on WTH factor. To each his own.
Sadly (or ironically, if you prefer), hands down the best comic on the site is this one:
http://www.whiteninjacomics.com/fanart/fa-sellout.shtml
Which the main author didn't even write. It cracks me up every time, though.

Terotrous · Post by **Terotrous** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:57 pm

falos wrote:note to self: check out whiteninja while stoned.
it really wasn't...funny. its got to be important somehow - isnt it real popular and, yknow, stuff?

Pupkin is popular too, and it's the worst thing in existance.

Phalanx · Post by **Phalanx** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:40 am

You're welcome, darling
Huh? Is that a shot?!

To my shame, yes it is. The 'my friend' triggered the response. I only tend to do that when I'm tired or irritated.

As for the logic bit, I could prolly defend myself and stuffz, but the "meh" part of me says no.

It's the 4 photoshops with the hi-quality BMPs and whatnot that were sorta oversized. I could probably compress them, but that account and its 20 MG were created just for it.

There are many things that I would like to say, words like Zip disk and CD-R, but I'll take a leaf out of your book and drop it too, then.

Last, did I mention I finished comic 4? Circus Act? That's how many I have in digital form. On paper there's at least 50, and then there's a story version I started that's around 50 panels long. I just need to get them from in here to out there. >_<

Well, you're going to need more than 4 comics if you're ever going to get off the ground. One bit of good advice- don't publicise before you have 20 comics in your archive (I'd advise 40). That'a mistake I made and have regretted bitterly ever since.

falos wrote: Man, I have GOT to get those comics done (is just as serious as you are)

Go for it. In the end it's your work that speaks for itself. All this is talk and nothing more.

We say that from our experience that you need at least fair art. You say you think you can succeed with just stick figures. I say go and show us you can. That's the most convincing argument you could ever come out with.

And if you succeed, I will take my hat off to you.

Good luck.

Mr.Bob · Post by **Mr.Bob** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:34 am

falos wrote:So how long would you people say you put into a single comic? Paper, scan, modify, the works? I just doodle them semi-profesionally with nothing but a plain pencil, a crappy inking pen, and a ruler in about 20 minutes. Then I imitate it with MS Paint in under an hour. If I was more concentrated I could do a lot better than this...

Check out this thread

YarpsDat · Post by **YarpsDat** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 11:39 am

Phalanx wrote: Anyway here's the confusing line:

I do have photoshop 7.0, and I know it well enuf. Thing is, these took up way too much memory for the 20 MG from angelfire.
In terms of logic, what you were actually saying by that sentence is:
[...] Photoshop images take up a lot of diskspace.

That's the way I understood it too.

And in another sentence you complain how your pencils scanned like crap. Well, it's a funny thing to say if you claim beeing photoshop expert.
Cleaning up bad scans is what photoshop is for!

Prism · Post by **Prism** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 11:47 am

Phalanx wrote: We say that from our experience that you need at least fair art. You say you think you can succeed with just stick figures. I say go and show us you can. That's the most convincing argument you could ever come out with.

Damnit, I wish I had said this. So consise and pithy... Dag-nabbit.

falos wrote: So how long would you people say you put into a single comic? Paper, scan, modify, the works? I just doodle them semi-profesionally with nothing but a plain pencil, a crappy inking pen, and a ruler in about 20 minutes. Then I imitate it with MS Paint in under an hour. If I was more concentrated I could do a lot better than this...

Depending on the amount of art needed, some of the comic-page-style ones took two hours from drawing (about 1.5 hours) and cleanup/text-and-effects added (.5 hours). Some inked drawings take about 1.5 hours (pencil drawing, then ink, then erase pencil), and some 'variable-line thickness' inked drawings (where lines get thicker and thinner for a neat style effect) can take 2 hours easy. A CGed piece used to take me 6 hours from start to finish, I can now do it in between 2.5 and 3.5 hours, but remember that I don't CG barely at all, so I'm pretty bad at it. A grayscaled-colored comic can take under 2 hours, which is my preferred method of adding 'color', even if it's just shades of greys, because of the time it saves.

falos wrote:Luckily, keenspace hasn't replied to my application and I still have time to work. If they for some reason don't reply at all, like I think has happened to other folk, then I'll retry AFTER I've written more

KeenSpace is free, and as such, goes down semi-frequently, forums were messed up for quite awhile, and any kind of 'instant gratification' from any action revolving from signup/help will not be given (other than the Help forum, which is usually useful for usual problems). I'm writing my own archive/page generation program, and looked for a free webhosting alternative to KeenSpace since I don't need AutoKeen anymore, and I couldn't find one. Either I need to look harder or pony up some cash to pay for one. ...Or stay at KeenSpace 8)

Phalanx · Post by **Phalanx** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:50 pm

falos wrote:
And if you succeed, I will take my hat off to you.
Must...resist...wiseass comeback

Whatever that might have been, I don't want to know what it is.

Prism wrote:
Phalanx wrote: We say that from our experience that you need at least fair art. You say you think you can succeed with just stick figures. I say go and show us you can. That's the most convincing argument you could ever come out with.
Damnit, I wish I had said this. So consise and pithy... Dag-nabbit.

Pithy... that's a new word for me... checks dictionary

pith