Pencils

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Sun Aug 08, 2004 4:43 am

This is a question mainly for those who do their comic (or did) in pencils, without inking, but also for those who are handy in penciling.
How do you manage excessive lines? After I do my pencil, there's usually such jungle of lines that I simply can't work on details and have to leave them for when I ink. I'd like to try drawing more narrow pencils, just to see what turns out, but how? When (if) you erase first sketch lines, how do you manage not to erase other lines? What pencils do you use and why? etc...

Faub · Post by **Faub** » Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:03 am

Excessive shading makes all the difference in the world. Most of that jungle of lines go away when you scribble over everything. I do find that I have to erase a lot initially to get rid of the structure lines I made from the general layout.

IVstudios · Post by **IVstudios** » Sun Aug 08, 2004 7:29 am

For a while I was using non-photo blue pencils to do all my structure sketches. Then I went in and did the detail with a #2B graphite pencil. It was really convinent and kept everything pretty clear, but the non-photo blue lines would always cause my ink lines to come off when I went to ink it, so I usually ended up inking twice. Now I'm trying out using a #4H pencil for the structure lines, and a #2b or #4b for the detail. It means more erasing after I ink, but the Ink lines stay in place.

If your pictures are to getting too jumbled, try keeping your pencil tip sharp. It means stopping a lot to sharpen your pencil, but it will keep things clearer. Also, what size are your original drawings? You might consider doing bigger originals and shirking them on the computer.

Phalanx · Post by **Phalanx** » Sun Aug 08, 2004 8:20 am

Yellow Colour Pencils!!!!

I draw out all my rough lines in yellow colour pencil, then draw over those with my 4b pencils. The scanner can't pick up the yellow lines, the page looks incredibly clean as a result.

Christwriter · Post by **Christwriter** » Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:06 am

A .5 diameter pen and an eraser stick.

It's why I started inking after a while. I'm not...controlled enough to avoid random pencil lines running everywhere. Heck, I erase everything before scanning and I still get random pencil lines. And I don't like the extra step of painting over the lines either...sometimes I'll overrun a wanted detail or something.

CW

Garasade · Post by **Garasade** » Sun Aug 08, 2004 3:32 pm

I use a 0.9mm mechanical pencil. I am not really much for sketching out any frame prior to shading, so there is a lot of erasing involved. Most of the jungle lines that inevitably mar the appearance I correct within a program after the drawing has been scanned. I found thicker pencil leads generally lead to logetivity (not as prone to breaking under pressure, etc.) and it is easier to control the thickness when one is used to it and it is easier at least for me to draw excessive lines or shading. But I do most of my shading / shadows on computer.

Perhaps you would want to first sketch out the outlines first and work partially work toward filling in the details after alternating between pen and pencil. Maybe you could put some scrap paper on parts that you would not want to be erased and proceed with erasing.

YarpsDat · Post by **YarpsDat** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:11 am

christwriter wrote:A .5 diameter pen and an eraser stick.

It's why I started inking after a while. I'm not...controlled enough to avoid random pencil lines running everywhere. Heck, I erase everything before scanning and I still get random pencil lines. And I don't like the extra step of painting over the lines either...sometimes I'll overrun a wanted detail or something.

CW

Yeah, same here.
I just draw a sketch, then another one over it, then anothe one over them, and then another... untill it starts looking like people. Then I ink the last one, and erase everything.
I tried doing it all in pencils a time or two, but it took way too much work, because I had to erase all the time to keep it more or less uncuttered, and then I had to redraw the final one after trying to erase the second-to-last one.

But I think heavy shading/texturing would help you hide most of the construction lines.

Faub · Post by **Faub** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:37 pm

Many professional artists have mentioned using light boxes and inking on a clean surface, leaving the pencils intact. The entire page gets redrawn with no erasing required.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:41 pm

Yeah, but, eh, you gotta have a light bos.
I've heard some use projectors to project thumbnails in required size. Seems a bit spoiled to me.

Phalanx wrote:Yellow Colour Pencils!!!!

I draw out all my rough lines in yellow colour pencil, then draw over those with my 4b pencils. The scanner can't pick up the yellow lines, the page looks incredibly clean as a result.

That might just work for me too, if yellow lines would clear out after scanning. One problem is, I carry my panels everywhere so I get to draw in most unusual conditions, far from the safety of my room. Problem is, sometimes it is in a very bad lightning and I suppose yellow lines require good light to be usable. But that's something I'd manage to deal with.

I usually try to keep pencil lines light and pale, supposedly to erase them easier. But then in the process of drawing (see Yarps's description) I get really thick lines at the end.

Phalanx · Post by **Phalanx** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:47 pm

mcDuffies wrote:
Phalanx wrote:Yellow Colour Pencils!!!!
That might just work for me too, if yellow lines would clear out after scanning. One problem is, I carry my panels everywhere so I get to draw in most unusual conditions, far from the safety of my room. Problem is, sometimes it is in a very bad lightning and I suppose yellow lines require good light to be usable. But that's something I'd manage to deal with.

Actually after some further testing, I find the technique great during daylight hours, but a bit tricky at night if your lamp gives yellow light... you can't see very well then.

I'm going to experiment with different coloured pencils and see if there's any improvement if I use hotter or colder colours that are easier to see. Maybe silver. I'll let you guys know if I find a better colour than yellow.

Resolve · Post by **Resolve** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:00 pm

Whenever I do actually ink, I use a light box or I use vellum. Problem is Vellum is a tad pricey but staring into a light box for a good hour or so burns your brain.

but since you also asked about straight out penciling, I sketch lightly with a .5mm 2b lead. Then I sketch a little harder and when I'm satisfied with where the lines should be. Then the light sketches if they haven't but completely overtaken can easily be erased and whats left over, gets blasted by the scanner settings.

G-Lode · Post by **G-Lode** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:34 am

I have been penciling my comic since I started and the only way I seem to get rid of the majority of sketch lines is by

1. Pencil drawing as lightly as possible (i tend to be heavyhanded)

2. Slightly darkening some of the details

3. Make a photocopy of the drawing which will preserve most of the darker pencil lines and minimize some of the background noise

4. Ink only what I want

5. Scan it into my computer in color format with a decent resolution

This method has several benefits/detriments

On the good side

you don't ruin your original drawing, so if you make a bad mistake you can just trash the copy.

you eliminate tons of background sketch lines without having to erase them completely

your scans will be clear enough for you to color easily in a software program like photoshop.

now on the bad side, it does take a little longer to finish. If i had more time, i would use it on all of my comics.

good luck!

YarpsDat · Post by **YarpsDat** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:06 pm

Phalanx wrote: Actually after some further testing, I find the technique great during daylight hours, but a bit tricky at night if your lamp gives yellow light... you can't see very well then.

I'm going to experiment with different coloured pencils and see if there's any improvement if I use hotter or colder colours that are easier to see. Maybe silver. I'll let you guys know if I find a better colour than yellow.

What about blue?
*raises eyebrow*

There's a link in my sig.

Carlin · Post by **Carlin** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:25 pm

I find that you can do the lightbox technique, without the lightbox. Just use some Xerox paper. It might seem odd to use such cheap materials but you can see your pencile lines right through it. I will sketch the drawing first, lay the Xerox paper over that, and then ink or pencil it again with very clean lines. I believe Barry of Ink Tank wrote a tutorial on how he pencils and inks his comic.

DGC · Post by **DGC** » Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:30 pm

I've been thinking about going to Home Depot and just making my own light box. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard or that expensive. I just got an old school wacom serial tablet that I was going to ink the pencils with, but it's not quite working out.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:15 pm

Resolve wrote:Whenever I do actually ink, I use a light box or I use vellum. Problem is Vellum is a tad pricey but staring into a light box for a good hour or so burns your brain.

but since you also asked about straight out penciling, I sketch lightly with a .5mm 2b lead. Then I sketch a little harder and when I'm satisfied with where the lines should be. Then the light sketches if they haven't but completely overtaken can easily be erased and whats left over, gets blasted by the scanner settings.

Hey, seems like a good technique, I'll try addapting to it. Although idea with coloured pencils seems tempting because there's no erasing, I'm kind of puritan so I want to have a finished, clean page for-all-purposes at the end.

What about blue?
*raises eyebrow*

There's a link in my sig.

To my knowing, light blue can't be photocopied and it's invisible for old-fashioned printing machines (that is, the ones that don't include computer scanning). But it seems that they can't be removed easily from the scanned picture (unless if you photocopy it, and then scan it, of course). Plus, it's a bit greasy so such pages won't absorb ink as well.

To widen the issue, what erasers would you reccoment?
It seems that most of expensive erasers I bought either pale the ink, or keep the erased graphit on their surface so after a few moves they get dirty and smudge the paper, so you have to clean it by rubbing to a clean paper every half a minute.
The ones that served me best were no-namers that I bought for other purposes and found out they work well.

Wp · Post by Wp » Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:17 pm

You should make story boards before you start your final pencil sketch. Then you'll know exactly how to draw your situations, and you won't have to draw so many guidelines. The more you draw that situation, the fewer lines you will need.

I used to draw the stick figure, then draw the basic shapes over the stick, then the actual body over the shapes, and then the clothes over the body. That was extremely messy, and it was hard to make out anything. After a couple months practice, I am now able to draw the stick figure, then the body, and then the clothes. This drastically reduces clutter.

Phalanx · Post by **Phalanx** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:35 pm

mcDuffies wrote:
What about blue?
*raises eyebrow*

There's a link in my sig.
To my knowing, light blue can't be photocopied and it's invisible for old-fashioned printing machines (that is, the ones that don't include computer scanning). But it seems that they can't be removed easily from the scanned picture (unless if you photocopy it, and then scan it, of course). Plus, it's a bit greasy so such pages won't absorb ink as well.

I was about to follow up with the results of the experiment...

Here's the colours scanned:

Here's the colours scanned in greyscale.

As you can tell, yellow is the least detected colour, followed by blue and green.

The grey was a grey colour pencil, and not graphite. It was very faint and silvery, and much too faint to see let alone count.

To widen the issue, what erasers would you reccoment?
It seems that most of expensive erasers I bought either pale the ink, or keep the erased graphit on their surface so after a few moves they get dirty and smudge the paper, so you have to clean it by rubbing to a clean paper every half a minute.
The ones that served me best were no-namers that I bought for other purposes and found out they work well.

KNEADABLESSS!!!!

wp wrote:You should make story boards before you start your final pencil sketch. Then you'll know exactly how to draw your situations, and you won't have to draw so many guidelines. The more you draw that situation, the fewer lines you will need.

I agree 100% with this one. Doing a rough sketch in storyboard s beforehand makes all the difference in the world.

Bullwinkle · Post by **Bullwinkle** » Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:08 pm

For me I use the sketchy lines as part of my style. I think it looks very interesting and gives the mood of it being in the jungle. I don't keep all the sketch lines though. Most of them get erased in drawing.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Sat Aug 14, 2004 7:47 am

Phalanx wrote:
wp wrote:You should make story boards before you start your final pencil sketch. Then you'll know exactly how to draw your situations, and you won't have to draw so many guidelines. The more you draw that situation, the fewer lines you will need.
I agree 100% with this one. Doing a rough sketch in storyboard s beforehand makes all the difference in the world.

I do make storyboards (or as I call them, thumbnails) but only to figure out the design of the panel.