Just Freaking Great(thanks Mr. Kurtz!)

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Just Freaking Great(thanks Mr. Kurtz!)

Postby Pockybot on Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:54 pm

I don't think I can fully illustrate my sheer frustration right now. I am just really hurt and saddened by this. You see, not to long ago Scott Kurtz of the very popular webcomic PvP online wrote me a very nice email that said:

I don't think I can fully illustrate my sheer frustration right now. I am just really hurt and saddened by this. You see, not to long ago Scott Kurtz of the very popular webcomic PvP online wrote me a very nice email that said:

Dude! You gotta do a guest strip for me. I found your post in the PvP forums after they locked it down so I never
got a chance to respond.
That was a hilarious strip, I look bad-ass with my ninja lawyers.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but I'm going to be posting guest strips
when I'm in San Diego this year.
Any chance you could do a guest PvP strip and get it to me sometime this
week?

If not, no worries.

Good stuff on your site man. Love the art!

Scott R. Kurtz
Toonhound Studios, LLC



This was July 6th. Well, the next day I worked my butt off and spent many an hour working on that guest strip he requested. He said not to worry, that it'd go up and I'd be linked. So I am thinking, finally, after a year
PockyBot is getting its first break...as boy, have I worked hard for it.
My comic was suppose to appear tommorrow.

Well well well...after Scott Kurtz(who does the 3rd largest webcomic online) uses the same person to do a guest strip for a whole week, then uses the same strips twice...pretty much ensuring the other guest strips don't get used...he says he is ending the guest week early. Did the guest week even begin? It was pretty much one artist hogging up all week.
I just feel extremely saddened by this, as Scott could not imagine how helpful this would have been for PockyBot. Now I will always wonder how much unlimited goodness and help would have come from this...there will always be the PockyBot that got plugged and a shining moment made out of a favor for abig webcomic, and then the one ya see now...wrecked with bad luck. Goodness knows Penny Arcade would never link to me(ya know, given Im not one of a small handful of gamer webcomics they already plug)

So thanks Scott Kurtz, for this wonderful oppurtunity to waste my time and get my hopes up. All ya had to do was put it up. That's it.
My commission I was spose to do with Red Vs Blue(commissioned by the guy behind the series no less) has fallen through, as has various other higher profile site commissions and guest work. Just my luck eh?

So ya guys wanna see the comic he decided wasn't good enough for his comic, despite saying he thought it kicked ass? The comic he asked that I do? Here it is:

http://www.pockybot.com/strips/pvpguest.jpg


God fucking dammit, I just can't believe how close I was, and then poof! Just like everything else in my life these days(relationship, financial, etc)
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Postby Toxic on Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:06 pm

Scott Kurtz is an evil human being, and I hope he dies.
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Postby Bekka on Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:11 pm

Sorry, but why don't you email him and sort it out in private? If you are such a loose cannon that you bitch on public boards when people forget to do you favours, you may end up isolated no matter how good your art.
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Postby Pockybot on Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:15 pm

TOXIC AVENGER! wrote:Scott Kurtz is an evil human being, and I hope he dies.


you mean breaking promises and serving self interest needs first? or the lawsuit thing?

Bekka wrote:Sorry, but why don't you email him and sort it out in private? If you are such a loose cannon that you bitch on public boards when people forget to do you favours, you may end up isolated no matter how good your art.


Your tone is strinkingly odd considering your other great posts. I want people to see the comic THAT SHOUL DHAVE BEEN ON THERE but isnt.
At any rate, if I can recover at least 1/20th the traffic I would have gotten from this maybe it will be better...if you were in the same siutaiton I am youd feel just as bad. Also, if I can get a word out on how the big webcomics think, than I have done my job.
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Postby Toxic on Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:22 pm

pockybot wrote:
TOXIC AVENGER! wrote:Scott Kurtz is an evil human being, and I hope he dies.


you mean breaking promises and serving self interest needs first? or the lawsuit thing?


Both, and I think PvP sucks.
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Postby Pockybot on Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:26 pm

TOXIC AVENGER! wrote:
pockybot wrote:
TOXIC AVENGER! wrote:Scott Kurtz is an evil human being, and I hope he dies.


you mean breaking promises and serving self interest needs first? or the lawsuit thing?


Both, and I think PvP sucks.


I know, but when a major webcomic personally asks you to do a webcomic, and later promises it will be on...well it just sucks.

People have a fun time making fun of me, that is fine. But mmm, to have this one shining spotlight, just for a few moments would have helped out so much. So yeah, heres the comic that wasnt good enough for PvP

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Postby Soap Soaperson on Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:27 pm

Well, Bekka, he DID get screwed over. No need to be so harsh. Still, she has a point; did you email him about this at all?

I don't know much about Kurtz and his constant dramas, so I have really no say. Still, I have yet to hear anything positive about him (other than that his comic is good).
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Postby Bekka on Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:29 pm

I know that you feel bad. I would have felt totally gutted as well.
What I mean is that by posting here about it you obtain nothing, if anything he's never going to post your guest art again even if he thought to do it in a bit. If you look at what's been happening these days, he's got all this thing with free newspaper comics going on, so he must have been too busy to replace guest comics and he wants to cut the guest week short so that all the new readers he's getting can see his stuff, rather than guest stuff. Very likely, in a bit, he may hold a guest comic week again. If not, next year. And your strip is good indefinitely, it's not linked to a time period, he could post it in the near future just as well.

I am not saying that you should be sucking up to anyone, fuck that, but you shouldn't alienate people either. I am just saying this because from the little I've seen, I think that your one and only problem is attitude, because your art is awesome.
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Re: .

Postby Pockybot on Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:37 pm

Bekka wrote:I am just saying this because from the little I've seen, I think that your one and only problem is attitude, because your art is awesome.


I appreciate the comments on my art...I just want to show people what should have rightfully been in there. I dont think you understand, my comic *was* in the PvP archives...it was to be
http://www.pvponline.com/archive/2004/pvp20040805.gif AKA tommorrow.
but nooo. not anymore. Thats fantastic he got all this new hype, that doesnt mean he shouldnt keep his word. It wouldnt have hurt him any to have kept his word to the people who put in a lot of effort for this. The next guest comic 2 week wont be til july of 2005.

anyways, I cannot stress the untold goodness this would have brought. As for attitude problem, I invite you and everyone to the PockyBot forums http://www.pockybot.com/forum
...perhaps the friendliest forums online, where I dont feel like Im walking on eggshells.
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Postby Bekka on Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:40 pm

OK, I understand how bad you feel :(
And I am definitely going to come and troll your forums... what I meant with attitude was, don't burn your bridges. Just that. Didn't mean that you are mad or something :p
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Postby RPin on Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:55 pm

Though luck, Cory. It can happen, but it's a shame.
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Postby Pockybot on Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:01 pm

RPin wrote:Though luck, Cory. It can happen, but it's a shame.


yeah...he said hes not going to do another guest week til July. But I know Im not the only one that this happened to. Man, even if SlashDot and PA linked to me, I wouldnt cut a guest week short...especially if it had barely began. Thats just isnt good practice. At least a few managed to get their comics up.

Bekka wrote:OK, I understand how bad you feel :(
And I am definitely going to come and troll your forums... what I meant with attitude was, don't burn your bridges. Just that. Didn't mean that you are mad or something :p


I completely understand...I regret, with haste of some of the flame wars or manner I may have come off in the past. With Kurtz, I have been reading PvP since 2000, so this wasnt purely a chance at traffic, but th echance to do a guest for a comic Ive been a longtime reader of. Heck, as much as me and Tim of CAD disagree and conflict, I felt bad he got screwed in this very same manner(not that he needs the extra boost, but again its nice to be recognized like that...especially when its a favor)
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Postby Bekka on Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:08 pm

I don't see why he couldn't make a temporary page with all the guest strips that didn't make it to the main page, and link it big and bold from the main page, with a news blurb inviting people to check them.

Or a news blurb with links to them and to the authors' site.
It wouldn't be as much exposure as having the guest strip up, but it would still be a lot better than nothing.

Maybe if you guys email him about it, he'll consider it? It wouldn't be such a huge effort on his part, and considering how much you've worked on the guest art, it would be mean if he didn't.
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Postby Not damonk on Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:11 pm

You still didn't answer the question, PBot -- did you write to him about it first and wait to hear his response before posting your ire publicly?

(I don't wanna make any further comments either way before I know that specific piece of info, really.)
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Re: .

Postby Pockybot on Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:21 pm

Bekka wrote:I don't see why he couldn't make a temporary page with all the guest strips that didn't make it to the main page, and link it big and bold from the main page, with a news blurb inviting people to check them.

Or a news blurb with links to them and to the authors' site.
It wouldn't be as much exposure as having the guest strip up, but it would still be a lot better than nothing.

Maybe if you guys email him about it, he'll consider it? It wouldn't be such a huge effort on his part, and considering how much you've worked on the guest art, it would be mean if he didn't.


exactly, thats my point. he can simply just link to em if its too much trouble. the ironic thing is he uses an automated script system for his comic, so he doesnt have to physically update the comic. meaning, the guest comics were already 'in the hamper' as he put it.

not damonk wrote:You still didn't answer the question, PBot -- did you write to him about it first and wait to hear his response before posting your ire publicly?

(I don't wanna make any further comments either way before I know that specific piece of info, really.)


I had become worried he was going to cut the guest 2 weeks(which in my opinion hardly even began)...what I said in the meail was very articulated, simply saying I didn't think it was fair to cut the guest weeks short in light of some extra traffic. I mentioned that I didnt think it was fair to everyone who waited all year for this oppurtunity, to have poured a lot into guest work only to have one person take up the entire first 5 weeks, for errors to keep some strips on for two days...all edging out everyone else's work. Again, some of us were personally contacted by Kurtz to do this...and I said it wasnt fair to cut it short...and that his work or traffic would not be hurt in continuing guest week. but whatever, promises were broken and its done now. I do no tthink this is the way to handle a guest weeks at all.
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Postby Van Douchebag on Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:34 pm

Consider yourself lucky - the best thing Kurtz would ask me to do is kiss his ass.
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Postby Skylark King on Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:36 pm

Van Douchebag wrote:Consider yourself lucky - the best thing Kurtz would ask me to do is kiss his ass.


Ouch... finishing thst project could take years...
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Postby Not damonk on Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:53 pm

So you're saying that you DID write to him, then? When was this?

Anywho, here are my (likely unwanted) thoughts on the matter:

Two mistakes were made here.

The first one is how Scott handled the cutting of the guest period. In terms of being smart about his own business, he did the RIGHT thing in cutting the guest week short -- if thousands of people are coming in after he's told them about his site, it's only fair that they see what they were promised. Any new reader coming in to see PvP only to find a bunch of different one-shots is more likely going to get confused than anything else.

So yeah, him choosing to cut the week short was a SMART move on his part. Any good businessman would have done the same in the same situation.

But his mistake (and the first of the two I see in the incident) is that he did handle the cut badly. He thanked all those who submitted guest strips... but didn't realize that by not naming those who aren't going to be shown, he is inadvertantly doing them a fair disservice -- kinda giving them an accidental snub. Particularly in cases such as your own, where he solicited the work directly.

I don't think he did it on purpose, but rather I think the gravity of the situation slipped his mind on account of him being so busy trying to figure out how to deal with the sudden influx of new readers dropping in.

So that was mistake #1.

Mistake #2, though, is your own, PBot -- by airing this publicly right off the bat without giving Kurtz a chance to realize his gaffe, you have pretty much ruined a perfect chance for him to make proper amends.

Chances are prolly good that had you waited for him to realize the mistake, he would have felt pretty crappy about it, and would have taken steps to make it up to you and the others. It would have also prolly helped to cement any professional or amicable relationship between the two of you, too; he would have likely been impressed by the classy way you handled the gaffe, and would be more inclined to think even better of you and your work in the future.

But by blowing up prematurely -- by thinking the worst of him right off the bat and not giving him a chance to prove himself otherwise -- you have put both he and you in a pretty awkward position: it's like you've trapped a poor defenseless animal in a corner, giving it no other alternative but to fight madly for survival.

By forcing the issue, you have either a) convinced him that there is NO POINT in feeling sorry for you if you think so little of him to begin with, or b) alienated him enough that he may make a paltry mention of you on his site just to call it "even", but then he will have little or nothing more to do with you after that.

* * *

And those are my humble Acadian thoughts on the matter.

You got a slap in the face that you didn't deserve, PBot, but then you went and did something that kinda negated the slap completely -- you retaliated rather than responded.

In the end, all of this is prolly not going to amount to much, but the businessman in me thinks it's a shame you let a perfectly good marketing/networking chance go to waste.

Yep.
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Postby Pockybot on Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:01 pm

not damonk wrote:In the end, all of this is prolly not going to amount to much, but the businessman in me thinks it's a shame you let a perfectly good marketing/networking chance go to waste.


No...this is my whole point. I didnt let it go to waste, he chose to bungle not just mine, but everyone else's hopes. I had a feeling this would happen tho. This was completely out of my control. Again, its not our(me and other webcomics) that fark or slashdot or whomever linked to him. An agreement is an agreement...its not like someone did some offensive comic, and he was being sued and forced to shut down guest week as a result.
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Postby Warren on Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:14 pm

I think you missed ND's point, which was to let Kurtz figure out he'd goofed first. Even if you felt slighted, that would have been a more prudent course of action.
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