Looking for some advice on how to improve my comic.

[LibertyCabbage]

kind of like how "Boy on a Stick and Slither" does.

psst

you're supposed to link to comics when you reference them...

damn im hungrys for ramen now

and this has to be the first time that somebody's put themselves in the Box without even knowing what it is ::points to Peabody's banner::

YOU'RE IN THE BOX PEABODY =S

[Blackaby]

I'd read Peabody and assumed it was one of LC's new comics. Yii! Hello to the little sister then.

I love the comic and the art - it's really adorable. Don't change the art but please change the image quality. I think you would benefit from cleaning up the images a little and saving them as a kind of file that doesn't suck and with higher resolution. At the moment the colours are bodgy and scuffy and poop - or at least they are on my monitor.

I like the "THE DAY THAT PEABODY DID THIS" comics best.

[Pillywiggin]

And sorry for assuming you're a guy, as you're well aware these forums and web comics in general tend to be a sausage fest so it's an easy assumption to make . . ..

I'm trying to figure out where on earth you got this idea.

I had been toying with the no-frames and I really like it, but I've been tending to make 10+ panel long comics lately and I see how it can easily get very disorganized. I think I'll stick with no-frames for the 1-5 panel comics and add frames for the longer ones. Then again, I've only been thinking of frames in terms of lines separating panels. I'll try out different kinds of ways to seperate panels, kind of like how "Boy on a Stick and Slither" does.

I presume you mean somthing like this. I think it'd work well because not only would it get rid of all of that white space but it'd add dimension to the comic without your having to shade everything.

Personally, I think that it looks better with flat colours.

[Faub]

Leave it alone people. If the flaming continues I lock the thread. If you want to argue, PM each other. If you're not talking about Peabody's comic, don't post.

Any method that changes the color of pixels in a rectangular image buffer can produce great art if the artist is capable of using the tool to its best abilities. I once knew an artist who painted with the wing of a model plane because none of his tools were big enough to handle the canvas he was working on. Give a monkey photoshop and he will create crap. He would have created crap anyway because he's a monkey, not because he didn't have photoshop. Give a child a crayon and let him scribble. If he thinks it's fun and keeps drawing, eventually he'll put the crayon away and move on to more interesting and useful tools.

Peabody, I see you as the child with the crayon (however old and whatever gender you are doesn't matter). You're making comics because you think it's fun. These aren't comics I would read. I go for storylines, drama and character development. Gags are okay, but its the characters I look for in gag comics, not the gags themselves.

Your character doesn't have much personality. You spend so much of your comic focused on this character, yet I'm not sure it's about the character. For me, gags are more interesting if they play off the characters' personalities and that the reader can relate to the characters. You play off the fact that the character is a pea. It's hard as a human to relate. There isn't much to go on as far as the "pea world" because you've made it the human world with peas and carrots. You aren't giving yourself a lot to work from.

[McDuffies]

Now, back to Castle_Builder:
You said a lot of nonsence, made a lot of generalizations and put words in people's mouth that they never said.

FIRST ~ You a) ask for ways in which you can improve "anything" your words not mine and then b) say you are "not willing to change" which ultimately means that what advice you get is absolutely useless so really what you want is for people to kiss your @$$. So, in two words my greatest advice has to be, "grow up." Or at least be honest with your agenda.

He doesn't say he's not willing to change. He just says he's not willing to change the tool. Do you think that all art can be sublimed in the tool artist uses? No? In that case, your claim that he said he's not willing to change is false, isn't it?

I hate to say it but you must be liberal, and a fan of Michael Moore.

You can read my intro like black letter law and only hold to the technicalities of the EXACT words as writting in order (the Michael Moore approach)

OR

You can try to understand the MEANING behind the EXACT words. I don't think anyone that read Peabody's post and then mine missunderstood what I meant.

(as I mentioned later with my crayons analogy, there are exceptions to everything, you obviously are the exception to people haveing rational thought and basic reasoning skills)

(oh, and yes, for your own clarification, that last part there was MEANT to spurn you and instigate a heated response which I will subsequently ignore)

Second: You conclude that he wants us to kiss his ass just from the fact that he doesn't want to change his tool? Dude, don't you think that's far-fetched? Even a professional psychoanalysist couldn't make a character profile based on one sentence. The fact is, you made a pressumption based on some cliches of artists that you got somewhere and you applied this cliche to Peabody. With his later posts he's proven that he is much more mature and open-minded than you gave him credits for. I haven't seen a proper apology from you.

I believe I gave her credit for being more mature then I initially gave her credit for . . . so your point is?

Oh and cliche's, or generalities, or stereotypes, are called those things because they are more often true then not. And if you claim you don't make those sorts of judgments you are a liar.

(again for your edification, that there last part is not a generalization but a fact)

(damn I did it again didn't I )

SECOND ~ DON'T use mspaint. It looks like shit. It's an automatic turn off. Even if the writing is funny, take longer then 10 mins to lay out your comic. Unless this is just something "for you" and you "don't care" what other people think, which is what most people say when they get defensive about thier "art." And hey, that's fine, but seriously, there are thousands of web comics out there and most of them are really crappy. Yours just does not stand out.

He asks what he can change besides changing MS Pain and you advice him to chage MS Pains - thus your advice is totally useless, unneeded and unwanted. Makes me wonder why you posted it at all, unless if it's to make you look smart and superior to poor people who still use MS Paint.
Instead, you should consider why he uses Paint. What is it that he tries to achieve with it, since he obviously didn't pick that tool randomly. Perhaps his comic concept shouldn't work with less crude art? Perhaps he has a certain vision (like we all do) and MS Paint is the integral part of that vision?

Your advice isn't useful. It's something he's probably got a lot of the first advice from the stack. In your first post, you used rude words, with attitude of looking down at him. That won't make him take your advice seriosly, why should he take seriously an advice from a guy who can't be polite and who insults him rightout by presuming bad things about him?

Advice is a suggestion one is free to consider or dismiss. You really should take some english classes.

(GODS I haven't come this close to flaming in YEARS . . . is this even flaming? . . . I SWEAR this is the last instigating remark I will make.)

Oh . . . and just because YOU didn't find it useful or unecessary doesn't mean she OR SOMEONE ELSE who happens to be a lurker or just a member reading posts didn't. You really should stop projecting your own opinions and judgments on people.

(place irony here)

And no offense "Kris X" but your stuff still looks jagged and choppy. You don't want to see the pixels of a circle. You want to see a circle not a bunch of squares that kind of end up looking like a circle when put together. THAT is the problem with mspaint. It's like cave wall paintings to a canvas and oils.

Why? Why do you presume everything has to be smooth and slick? If the effect that artist wanted to achieve is jagged circle, then, if he drew a jagged circle, he hit his point. Image is the mean of achieving certain effect needed for narrative and there is no rule that the desired effect can't be a jagged circle. And as for appeal, to some people even jagged circle has it's appeal, even if it doesn't for you.
There's an example in front of you: KrisX's slick character design clashes with the crude execution due to MS Paint and forms an interesting contrast. This contrast makes tension in her art and tension, as we know, least to a dynamic style. There, Pain is used as a mean of invention. There are thousands of smooth circles out there. Significantly less stylishly chopped circles.
And are you suggesting that cave paintings don't have artistic value? Because every art critic in the world will disagree with you.

Again, I think most people got my point. Are you just looking for reasons to argue?

I just don't understand how people can honestly sit as say it's a "style" choice etc. Bad artwork is bad artwork. Granted people have differing opinions and what not but ultimately mspaint is a BAD tool to use and not wanting to use a more effective program without having some sort of logical reason makes no sense to me.

Let me explain how crude or, as you call it, 'bad' artwork can be good:
For centuries, artists gained knowledge they used to make art more photo-realistic. After some point, around 19 century, they reached the point where this was not a valid goal for art (probably with invention of photography) and went in other direction. Most of 20 century was spent on making art cruder, simpler. Artists like Pikasso, Matisse and Dubuffet were researching primitive tribal art, art of children and even art of mentally ill. Why, you wonder. Because they believed that crude art is in closer contact with man's essence, his, let's say, soul. Tribal paintings were a product of tribes where civilisation didn't stand between man and nature. Kid drawings are art in which no learned technique stood in the way to honesty, naivety, and they were ever more direct. With every level of technical perfection gained, you lose something of your honesty, your initial inspiration. Therefore, artists who were already technical masters aimed to return to the state of crude drawing.
I am saying all this to explain that crude art does not equal bad art. That childish drawing can sometimes have more power than the art of a great craftsman. Using MS Paint can be an extention of that line of thinking. I am trying to explain that what seems like a bad artwork (if I may say, to the untrained eye) is sometimes simply not bad - just crude and simplified, which are some of reasons why it's bad.
(This is not reffering to Peabody's example. I am simply explaining why crude artwork can be good, because it seems like you asked that question).

Bad art by definition is not good. Just as illegal aliens by definition do not belong in our country.

As for the rest . . . . . yes of course, but I'm not discussing history am I?

When people ask for crits I tend to open the box on them because thats how I personally learn the most. Some people take offense because they take it personally. It's hard not to, as ones art IS personal, but I think you understand.

Diplomacy never hurt anybody. You can be diplomatic and still honest and direct, that's not too hard.
But you gave Peabody more than he asked. He asked for review and tips on him comic and you have him an unfair review of his character and also one rather subjective vision of art presented as a matter of fact.

When you pussy foot around an issue people tend to fall asleep. If you slap them in the face with it they pay attention.

We each have different methods. At the end of the day though I am not a web troll who just calls people names and gets into fights. I give a critique. You might not like what I'm saying or how I'm saying it, but that is your prerogative of course. To each their own.

Sorry if I am rough on you, I was sincirely not trying to match the tone of your first post in this thread.

Yeah, OF COURSE I read this part last . . . I swear it wasn't there when I hit the "quote" button . . . oh well . . .

It's not a matter of matching my tone. I think you missed my points. In any case, thanks for the entertaining repartee. It's been amusing.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I ALSO just noticed you're a Mod. Good times.

In any case, those are just some thoughts. It wouldn't be a community if we all agreed.




EDIT: Oh and Peabody, sorry for turning your thread into the mess it kinda became. Wasn't my intention.

Hmmm... all I have to say to this is that you clarified that you are a troll. - which you addmitted yourself, you know, this might be "close to flaming" on some forums, on this one it's considered outright flaming. Or we can take this to other mods and admins and mods on this forum and see if they consider this post worth a warning from admins or not.
Sorry I missjudged you, for a moment I really thought that I was talking to a rational person. I know that using rational talk to people who just want an excuse for stringing personal insults gets them mad.

[Castle_Builder]

Sorry for posting here again. I tried to PM mcDuffies but it wouldn't go through and I'm not sure why.

mcDuffies:

Do me a favor and READ my posts before you click on the "quote" tab.

YES, in my response to your response I was OVERLY caustic. I admit it, and I do apologize. Not to you of course, but to everyone else, for not having PMed you.

Fact is, you hit a nerve. Partly because from what I have seen of your posts you've done nothing but missquote me, missinterpret me and take what I said out of context. Which continued into your latest post regarding trolling.

If you feel you need to go to "other" Mods to give me a warning or get me banned go for it. Granted I feel you are out of line, but that is your prerogative.

EDIT: Apparently I have already been "warned" so I guess you got what you wanted. Bravo.

[Thirdworldvillian]

All drama aside, I think that, even if mspaint has been used by some amazing artist to re paint the mona lisa in all her glory, its not an effective tool to use if your not that great artist.

From what I've seen out of this comic ms paint has not been used effectivly and the comic would benifit from the use of another program.

[Eunice P]

I've tried using MSPaint before. Heck, I even used MSWord to do my speech balloons before and someone complained about how jagged the balloon looks. LoL. But seriously, I think everyone has their own choice of tools they desire to work on.

Want a good example of a great MSPaint comic? Well, the art of this MSPaint Comic ownz: http://www.drunkduck.com/DILLON/
And this artist managed to pull this amazing scene using MSPaint: http://www.drunkduck.com/DILLON/index.php?i=574532

Like someone previously said. It's the skill of the artist that makes the art looks great. Not necessary the tool.

Oh yeah, Peabody's freaking adorable.

[Kris X]

From what I've seen out of this comic ms paint has not been used effectivly and the comic would benifit from the use of another program.

I disagree. From what I take, it gives the comic it's charm. If you use Photoshop on this comic it starts to look too digital and like all the other comics. I think Peabody is going in the right direction.

[LibertyCabbage]

here's peabody's "real art" gallery
http://peabody.comicgenesis.com/realart.htm

i asked why she doesn't draw like this anymore and she says she only enjoys drawing bad art which is wtf. note that most of this stuff is 3-4 years old so if she started drawing 4 real again she'd pwn my kashi. i asked a shaman to cast a spell on her to make her draw but he said that black magic isn't part of his religion. what an asshole, that's why i hate shamans, they're too stupid which is why they are an endangered species.

[Dutch!]

That is a VERY basic philosophical argument.

HOWEVER . . . it is also PC BS.

Ha!I may not agree with your approach (although I'm pretty sure you meant parts of it to be tongue in cheek, which I thoroughly appreciated), but you've hit the hammer in the right place for me too. I often feel that forums such as this can become big ego-stroking (or at the least ego-nurturing) sessions and there's a lot of the PC BS, as you've aptly named it.

Heh...you may be abrasive of times, but I found it entertaining and it surprises me that others took it so differently. Then again, I appreciate people who aren't afraid to call a spade a bloody shovel.

Carry on people, this has been instructive and entertaining!

Cheers!

[Mercury Hat]

For what it's worth, with the exception of some of your latest posts in this thread where you strayed close to personal insults, I felt your critiques were rather spot-on (both in this and other threads) Castle Builder.

And Peabody, it's fine to use MSPaint or MSPaint techniques to make your comic, but the jpg compression on your nav buttons and earlier comics were really terrible and distorted the image way too much. This is why I would advise against using MSPaint, but since your latest comics are in png format, this problem has gone away.

[Princess]

One of my favorite quotes is "a poor workman always blames his tools"


If someone is skilled, to a certain degree it doesn't matter if they are using a burnt stick or oil paints made of ground gold. It cracks me up that people think buying photoshop or painter will turn them into an amazing digital artist

Browse some Oekaki galeries, some people have managed photorealistic artwork using a java applet not much more advanced then paint.

[Faub]

If peabody is drawing this way on purpose, there's nothing we can do to stop her. Of course, that kinda nullifies every possible bit of critique we can give her too.

That makes me wonder if there's anything to be gained from this thread but hits. If so, this really does belong in comic pitching.

[Christwriter]

Original is here: http://peabody.comicgenesis.com/d/20050916.html
(note: I made that original when I was still saving things as jpg instead of bmp or png, so pretend it's slightly better image quality.)

So, do you think photoshop makes it that much better?

Yes, I do. It's added some depth to the image. You could add more by using backgrounds, but I do like what you did. However (and this will kinda nullify the complement, sorry) you have the highlights in the wrong places. The center of the bright spot would be a little more inside the circle, not on the edge. The edge would be where the circle is curving away from the light. Move it inward a little more. Not to the middle, but just inward.

And also, with the lightbulb...use vectors. When you don't have a tablet, vectors are fun-fun-fun. There's probably a tutorial on vectors (pen tool) <a href=http://www.good-tutorials.com/>here</a>

And for the record...I did not say that using MSpaint is a bad thing or a good thing. I just said it was a pretty blunt instrument. If what you WANT is an MSPaint based style, then USE an MSpaint based style. But TRY THE BIG TOOLS FIRST so that you know exactly what you're doing when you make the choice. If you're choosing MSpaint out of a basic reason to be cool without ever trying the other tools, you might like the programs like Gimp more than MSpaint and never know it.

Be as artistic as you want, but don't be close minded. That's all I wanted to say.

That should go for us big program users too. You don't know WHY someone is using MSpaint, but there's a good chance they've got a good reason. Let 'em do it if that's the best way for them to get thier concept across.

CW

[RemusShepherd]

I'm not going to get into the main argument on this thread, other than to say that the tools do affect the output. You should choose your tools based on the final product you want; if you have a finished piece and you don't like it, changing your tools might make it better.

That said, I might have some advice for you in MSPaint.

The first thing I see in your comic is that Peabody only has a handful of expressions and perspectives. There's happy and sad and mouth-open-talking, and they're all drawn from the front. (You even have one comic with 'Peabody looks stupid from the side'. You're right, it's stupid, but it's more interesting than full-frontal all the time.) Changing perspective would make the comic more interesting -- more three-quarter profiles (you do some, but not many), top views, etc.

Expressions are probably more important, as they link to the joke you're doing. You have a character that's hard to do expressions with, being essentially a one-tone stick figure. It seems to me that you're trying to study a minimalist approach to drawing, but the key to minimalism is knowing what *minimum* amount of detail you need to portray your concept. I don't think you're using enough detail -- certainly not enough to make me like Peabody as a character. Some additional detail -- change of line thicknesses, additional colors, maybe a facial feature that can convey emotions (eyebrows are *wonderful*) -- could help.

Here's a illustration of my suggestions I did in MSPaint for you. Consider it fan art, although to be honest I'm not a fan.



Oh -- and save your stuff as a GIF. There's really no excuse not to use GIF format for something this simple, it really is the best. Just convert it in Photoshop, since you have that. Best of luck, whatever you do.

[LibertyCabbage]

hehe, that's how i draw peabody =x http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/7981/pb0vo.jpg

i don't get why she even made this thread since she is intentionally drawing badly and she's stubborn about changing her tools =/ i guess she wanted to find out how to make her mspaint drawings "less sucky". i think mostly she wanted to "pitch" the comic but she didn't feel she was ready so she kinda pre-pitched it here.

it's really annoying to me too since i'm jealous of her actual abilities =/ i think she's gonna draw something for real soon though, i dunno =S

[RemusShepherd]

i don't get why she even made this thread since she is intentionally drawing badly and she's stubborn about changing her tools =/

(Remus takes off amateur artist hat, puts on amateur psychologist hat. )

There are only three reasons why someone *that* talented would draw like she's drawing:

A) She's suffered brain damage.
B) She's studying minimalism in an attempt to discover the essential elements of art.
C) She's having a crisis of self-confidence, and is afraid of her best art being rejected, so she's underperforming so that no rejection could possibly sting.

I'm going with B, which if nothing else treats her with respect and can't hurt in the event C is the case.

Let us know, Peabody, if you do any future projects. I'd like to see them.

[LibertyCabbage]

I think it's C!!!!!!!!

[Blackaby]

Or:

D) She wants to have fun and write something funny about a subject that is best represented in a cute, childish style.