In search of advice.

[ElvenRaptor]

You see, I'm about to venture into the job of co-creating a webcomic with someone and I'd appreciate any and every tip (specific and/or general) that any of you can give.

For know, I'd just like some general advice in making a webcomic. I'll have a proper synopses of what we're doing for you a bit later. I'd do it now, but I'm short on time and needing to be somewhere.

[Faub]

You'll be working as a team so you both need to keep each other workig on this project. Make sure your partner has his/her part done and ready for you. Your partner should push you to complete your part. Don't let it upset you if your partner is critical of your work. You should expect that and use the criticism to improve. You should be more worried that your partner doesn't find anything wrong with your work.

The way I write and draw my comic is so:

1. Synopsis: My comic is a complex story. I need to know what is going to happen when and in what order. I do this in the form of a basic outline. Most of it I keep in my head but if I'm working on something and it's difficult, it goes on paper so I can see it.
2. Script: This is where the detail comes from. I need to have everything written out before it gets laid out on bristol. If I think of a good scene that doesn't fit the immediate storyline, it gets written down and I'll come back to it later. I'm still waiting on a few scenes to come up actually. They won't happen for more than a year at the rate I'm going.
3. Storyboard: Some people make a storyboard in a notebook. The panels get laid out to see where the panels will be on the page and how much script can be included. I do this on the bristol unless I'm running out of paper and need to know exactly how much space I have left.
4. Materials: I use 11x14 bristol board for my pages. I draw my own boundaries so it's the same relative size as a regular comic page. I've also started messing with 14x17 bristol and ruling it the way professional artists do. http://blambot.com/ruleyourown.shtml I know many people who use plain typing paper.
   I use a mechanical pencil for details and one of those extendable erasers. I have a block eraser for large areas. For inking I use a small brush and waterproof India ink. Many people use crowquill pens (dipping pens). I have a set of Speedball nibs that I want to test out sometime but haven't.
5. Artwork: Drawing tends to take the most time. There really isn't much to say here except draw.
   Look at all kinds of comics. Study their styles. Get a feeling for how you want to draw. Don't try to emulate a style (manga) unless you feel the style is appropriate for the comic as you want it drawn.
6. Lettering: Hand drawn letters can look really good and be extremely expressive. You need to be sure your handwriting is readable, though. It needs to be readable at a distance from the screen and readable by people other than yourself. If you can't do this, that's okay. There are fonts online that look really good. http://blambot.com/ is a good place to start. Their free fonts are quite good. Text is typically added to a comic using Adobe Illustrator. I find that Illustrator is expensive and use GIMP instead.

Read these articles: (Seriously, there's good stuff in here.)
http://blambot.com/articles.shtml

And practice practice practice.

[ElvenRaptor]

Thank you very much for the advice.

I'll pretty much stay motivated, and I think my can keep my friend motivated, too, if he ever starts burning out on the project.

Well, we're already doing a couple of the things you mentioned. We have a script (which will have to be divided into parts later). Its the intro story. We also have a pretty much 'set in stone' outline and we know exactly where we want the story and the characters to go. The story and the characters, themselves are based off an "Mutants and Masterminds" RPG campaign we're doing right now and have been doing for quite a while.

Storyboards. I never would have thought of that. I think that's a good idea. I think we can do that. Thanks again.

As for drawing, neither my friend or I can draw worth a darn (my apologies to my friend if he's reading this), so we're just going to find an artist to do that for us.

My friend and I aren't going to be doing the lettering, ourselves. We'll just use the computer for that. Our handwriting is readily readably, but its nothing special.

Out of curiousity: What is your webcomic, anyway?

[Christwriter]

1. Read. It doesn't matter what. Just read. True crime horror fantasy sci fi romance novels comic books fan fiction. You will need to learn how to write things like dialogue, how to pace, how to build characters, and the only place to learn these things well is to read books. And try to find two kinds of books: Really really good books, and really really bad ones. You can learn a lot from good books. You can learn a lot more from bad ones.

2. Repeat step one.

3. Repeat steps one and two.

4. Write. Anything. Just write. Practice practice practice. Short stories, clips out of novel ideas, do a NaNoWriMo this november if you have the time. (check sig) I'd even suggest going as far as to join a writer's group. I have and the advice I get is invaluable. The more you write the better what you write will be.

5. Repeat step four.

6. Repeat steps four and five

7. Find an editor, or someone willing to edit. As of yet, I have not found a person like this, and I know I suffer badly for it. The reason why is that you cannot, and I repeat ad nauseam, CANNOT edit your work. You are too close to it. You do not see how the beautifully written scene that took you three weeks to write streaches something too far. Someone who has no emotional investment in this story will.

8. Webcomic specific: Find two webcomics. A really really good one, and a cataclysmically bad one. If your brain does not feel like it's (pardon the language) having an orgasm from the good one, and melting into radioactive goo from the bad one, you haven't found the right ones. The idea here, again, is to see what to do and what not to do. If you do not see BOTH, right in front of you, you probably will not learn.

9. Do NOT write a set-in-stone script unless you have written every single last event that will ever happen. I did this, not with my comic, but with a novel I wrote. I outlined the living crap out of it, but when I wrote it the characters decided they did not like the outline, and stupid me, I stuck to the outline instead of the characters. The result sucked. Always leave room for the character development.

9. Be willing to kill your babies. When you are writing you will fall in love with things you write. These things do not nessarily belong in your story, and sometimes do not even deserve to live. Webcomics are also different from other media in another way--you have a VERY limited amount of space and time in which to tell your story. There is only so much information you can fit on a page, and there are only so many pages you can create in a week. The more you put into your pages, the longer the story will become and the more your readers will complain. Learn what is absolutely critical, what is simi critical, and what can be painfully glossed over and stuck on the cast page. You have a delete button. Learn how to use it. This is a place where editors help.

10. Learn HTML. I cannot stress that enough. Your website is your book cover, your attention-getter and your salesman. It is also the showcase of your comic, your jewel case, your black velvet. The ideal site is functional, appealing, easy-to-navagate, and presents the comic rather than overpowers it. It also goes WITH the comic, gritty for gritty, light for light, romantic for romantic, and futuristic for sci-fi. Invest time in putting it together, and when someone says something sucks, investigate and change it if you have to. When I visit a site, if it's the default Keenspace set-up I'm likely to leave. If it hurts my eyes I'm likely to leave. If the first thing I see is not the comic and I cannot find a button that says "comic" in the first minute, I'm gone.

11. Repeat steps one through six.

I'd also suggest investing in at LEAST a few how-to-write books. Stephen King's "On Writing" is INVALUABLE to a fledgling writer, even if all you're going to write is comics. Visit writer's forums (click on NaNoWriMo in my sig, the forum there contains priceless advice from other writers) and ask about how to plot, pace and develop your characters.

Comic is the big, pretty banner in my sig, in case you want to check my references. though actually I'd advise against using the quality of a person's site as a guideline to how valuable their advice is. Sometimes people's knowlege is better than the things that they can produce.

CW

[Subhuman]

Good Lord. Everything I want to say, Christwriter says more coherently, thoughtfully, and helpfully than I ever could. DAMN YOU, WOMAN.

If you need an editor, BTW, I'd be willing to help. I'm comfortable writing my own stories, but I've had some success (and seem to have a knack for) bringing out the best in the works of others. Plus, I just like scratching out words with a red pen. Makes me feel important.

Everything Christwriter mentioned about "killing your babies" and getting distance from your work is gospel. I've been writing since...well, ever, and I can't tell you how many of my favorite jokes/scenes/ideas I axed because they just didn't fit the story. The story is key, the story is your Bible, everything you write, or edit, or otherwise fiddle with should be in service of telling a good story. If it doesn't work, cut it. You'll get over it.

Check out William Strunk and E.B. White's excellent guide The Elements of Style, and keep a copy in your desk drawer. And yes, King's On Writing is great for getting you motivated to write.

In terms of art...honestly, it's not my area of expertise. But the webcomics I come back to are the ones who have a clean, and most of all consistent, art style. That's harder to pull off than you'd think. Look at the most successful comics out there - Penny Arcade, Girly, PvP, etc. - and you'll notice that while their styles are unique, they're all solid and consistent. They look professional. Make sure the artist you're hiring has this in mind.

As far as your site layout....keep it simple. Simplicity is next to godliness. If that means all you have is the title at the top, the comic in the middle, and the nav buttons on the bottom - congrats! You're ahead of half the pack. If you want to build on the basics and make your site slicker, go right ahead, but keep it easily navigable and uncluttered. Again, simple is key.

[ElvenRaptor]

To Christwriter:

Thank you very much for your advice, too.

1, 2, 3. Although I've read several good and bad books in my time, already, I suppose that I could easily give your idea a try.

4, 5, 6. I also write a lot. I usually just write. Period, and right now, I'm trying to learn to write better dialogue.

7. As for editing, my partner and I look over each other's stuff all the time and we correct each other quite often. Although we're not professionals, we do pretty good. And I do know someone will notice all the flaws if I show that person our stuff. This person isn't an editor, but she is very reliable.

8. For the two comics (one great and one horrid). Good idea. I'll do that.

9. Well, the scripts are basically there so we know what to do, instead of just winging it. We like to have a solid foundation to work with.

10. Don't worry, we have 10 covered.

11. Got it covered.

And I'll check out how much your other promising ideas help me.

[ElvenRaptor]

My partner and I do absolutely intend on keeping the art style consistant, unique, and in good quality all at the same time as well.

[Faub]

Out of curiousity: What is your webcomic, anyway?

Check my sig. *points down*

[ElvenRaptor]

You know, I think I've read that one.

[Christwriter]

To Christwriter:

Thank you very much for your advice, too.

1, 2, 3. Although I've read several good and bad books in my time, already, I suppose that I could easily give your idea a try.

Actually this and 456 are direct quotes from Stephen King's On Writing and Terry Brooks Sometimes the Magic Works (which, BTW, has exelent advice for how to outline), not mine. Professional writers try to read a large number of books in a year. King (who claims to be a slow reader) named like two or three a week, mostly audio books, and Brooks suggests the same, even that audio books make things a whole lot easier.

I can make several suggestions for reading material, of course. Honestly, I'd suggest anything by David Weber for ploting and pacing, Stephen R. Donaldson's Gap series for character development (very brutal series, but a fantastic example of how to develop characters from one thing to another) and maybe King for ideas on how to screw with your reader's mind. I wish there was a book or something analyzing Hitchcock's movies, because one little segment of a "making of" show for Rear Window had a sort of "Revelation from God" feeling for me. Anybody know of any?

CW

[ElvenRaptor]

I think I'll look into the stuff you suggested. Thanks again.

[ElvenRaptor]

Is there anyone here who's doing a super hero comic? Can you offer any advice of it.

[ElvenRaptor]

Bump.

I have a feeling I'll probably be needing more info, so instead of making a new thread about this: I'll just bump this one up.

[Faub]

What kind of more info are you looking for? Anything specific or just general info?

[Blackaby]

I do my comic in a similar way to you - I write a comic and have a reg'lar artist and several guest artists ("Hi, guys!") who draw it for me. I'm pretty darn new at this - I think we've been doing it for about four months - and it's all a learning experience.

Here are the lessons I learnt so far in comicking and writing:

1. Get a great artist, and TRUST them. Unless something they do is REALLY not right - let it go. They're the bleeding artist and in the long run they know what will work best visually for the comic. Don't question them, they are really freaking impressive.

2. Get someone else to do all the hard work for you. If you're stupid and you hate technology, don't do the website half assed, get a freaking professional designer or someone who's studying it who will make you a website that fits what you want. And will update it and organise all the stuff that you can't.

3. Don't worry if you aren't popular.

4. Listen to criticism. If people don't understand what you're doing, it's YOUR fault not theirs. Rearrange things so they're accessible to everyone, and that everyone gets it!

5. Be friendly to other comickers because they will give you great tips on how to run your comic and will also assist you with the problems you have.

6. Rewrite all your scripts. The shorter you can make them, the better. Cut the unnecessary dialogue, even if it is funny. You can always reuse jokes.

7. Write out all your plot lines from start to finish, in the form A happens then B happens etc, on a piece of paper. Unless of course you're one of the fun people like me who can wing things jusss fine, so long as you have a kind of vague goal in mind.

8. I wouldn't recommend reading in excess... er. Seems kind of a waste of time and you'll ruin your eyesight. Watch movies instead. I've learnt a heck of a lot more from movies, critiques, editors and grammar lessons than what I learnt from books. The time you spend reading is time you've wasted when you could be writing. I read about four or five books a year, probably only about two so far this year, if that - that seems to work fine for me.

9. Expect that it may take you a while to get your mojo on and that it's a continual learning process.

10. Don't make it for any other reason than you want to have fun with it. Otherwise you may be disappointed.

[ElvenRaptor]

Well, for one thing: I know this isn't going to be easy to answer, but what are some good tips to avoid making potential romances and/or back stories sappy.

[Blackaby]

Watch Passions, and then do everything they don't.

[William G]

You see, I'm about to venture into the job of co-creating a webcomic with someone and I'd appreciate any and every tip (specific and/or general) that any of you can give.

Pick up a guitar, start a band, get laid a lot, and never consider this again.

Seriously, you'll be happier in the long run.

[Nutcracker]

Well, for one thing: I know this isn't going to be easy to answer, but what are some good tips to avoid making potential romances and/or back stories sappy.

It all depends on you, I don't think resisting the temptation to make romance is so hard. Just write down what your story would need: sub-plots, character's personal problems, etc. and put romance on the bottom of the list. You'll probably run out of space before you get there. Or try to figure out a non-sappy kind of romance, keeping it not very important.
Personally, I'm a fan of unusual relations between characters, I remember writing a story about two people hating each other from the first sight. It was the total opposite of love, but still based on emotions.

[MadTarnsman]

I think I posted some advice to you.....or at least what works for me...on another string.

I do love the boards from BlueLine though.......