Page 50 of Circle Arcadia: KotG

Prettysenshi · Post by **Prettysenshi** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:23 pm

How's the shading on this one? I tried to apply what everyone in the last thread told me to consider. I hope it showed. Also, what do you guys think about Sarii's bruises? I think they came out great. And don't mind the flare...lol...I like it.

Kris X · Post by **Kris X** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:19 pm

*Stare*

Post by **Mercury Hat** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:25 pm

Haven't you had, like, three different threads about your shading?

Black Sparrow · Post by **Black Sparrow** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:30 pm

Getting better.

Don't forget the shadow under the guy's chin, though. (Picky picky...)

Just be careful about low-quality compression. It can really damage a good coloring job. ((Learned that from experience.))

Christwriter · Post by **Christwriter** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:13 pm

Dear, this is your fourth thread this month. I don't mind giving advice, but please reuse an old thread if you need advice this badly. K?

The shading is a little bland. Your comic's story seems to be very dramatic, but your coloring and shading is awfully light and dreamy. It's a good thing for light scenes, but for action scenes like this the darker the better is the rule. It makes the whole thing seem edgier and more dangerous. I can tell where you shaded, but I have to look for it. Make it darker and more dramatic--if your graphics program (Photoshop, Gimp, ect) can do layers, I'd throw a new layer on top of the flats and cel shade with a gray and a 30-50 percent hard brush (not a fuzzy brush). Darker shading and coloring would also make your magic effects stand out more. Generally, it would make EVERYTHING stand out more.

And hon...I know you like 'em, but please, please, please rethink the big thick outlines. They dominate the art when they should just be a part of the background. If you want more detail, use darker, dramatic shading instead of big lines. The big lines look unpolished and it's difficult to look anywhere else. I'd suggest either drawing with a pressure sensative tablet to add more variation to your lines, or draw lineart by hand and scan it into the computer. I got away with doing comics by mouse by not HAVING any line-art because you cannot get it to look good with regular, unvaried, wavery lines that mouses (mice?) make. Lineart should not be the focus of the strip...that should be the action, and those big lines just sap the energy away and make everything look too wooden.

CW

Faub · Post by **Faub** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:24 pm

Your last thread is only 4 days old. Over the last month, you've started seven new threads.

Should my comicpages be in color or grayscale, or toned?
http://forums.comicgenesis.com/viewtopic.php?t=66983

Should I try screentones?
http://forums.comicgenesis.com/viewtopic.php?t=67079

Black and White vs. Full Color
http://forums.comicgenesis.com/viewtopic.php?t=67218

Help me out here.
http://forums.comicgenesis.com/viewtopic.php?t=67252

how's this for shading...?
http://forums.comicgenesis.com/viewtopic.php?t=67384

Is this any better?
http://forums.comicgenesis.com/viewtopic.php?t=67421

and this one.
http://forums.comicgenesis.com/viewtopic.php?t=67546

"Should I try this?" "Is this any better?" Honestly. Enough is enough. You're getting complaints and I'm the one who has to deal with that. Instead of starting new threads each time you want to ask about your comic, post in the existing one.

You need to learn to see the problems for yourself. If you thinks there's a problem, try fixing it. Do some research. Try a bunch of different styles. You've posted a new thread every 4-6 days. One or two drawings doesn't give you much insight into a style. Draw 10 or 20 pages and then come back to us with what you've learned.

From what I can see, your style hasn't changed significantly in the past month. You're using a mouse to draw. I would say stop doing that. Mice have very limited potential as drawing tools. To use a mouse effectively, you need a program that will draw the smooth curves for you. If you don't have the cash for Adobe Illustrator, I would suggest installing Inkscape. The latest version is very good. It could be better, but it's free. Don't complain.

Drawing style:
http://arcadia.comicgenesis.com/d/20050812.html
Your heads could detatch from their bodies. In panels 1, 2 and 4 of the above, you've completely cut the head from the neck. The character is like a Barbie doll. You could squish the head and it would squeek. You draw necks as if they were posts. Often you draw them too long as can be seen in panel 2 and 4 and in a few of the example pages you linked in earlier threads.

I suggest putting the manga aside and looking at a real person. You in front of the bathroom mirror will do in a pinch but a better idea would be to draw other people. Find a variety of people. DRAW THEM. Don't draw what you think you see. Draw what you see. How different is that from what you're actually drawing? Find some figure drawing books. They will help you with proportion.

You're asking about shading. You need to know the structure of a face in order to shade it. Same is true for a body. Using screentones, grayscale or full color is irrelevant. The rules are the same.

Your backgrounds are FLAT. They look like stage props. The solution? Perspective. Pick a vanishing point and draw your backgrounds with a ruler. If you want to add textures later you can use the perspective tool in GIMP or Photoshop to size the textures to the proper angles. You need the outlines of the backgrounds before you do that, though.

And the best thing you can do for yourself now is to go draw.

Prettysenshi · Post by **Prettysenshi** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:59 am

faub wrote:Your last thread is only 4 days old. Over the last month, you've started seven new threads.

Should my comicpages be in color or grayscale, or toned?
http://forums.comicgenesis.com/viewtopic.php?t=66983

Should I try screentones?
http://forums.comicgenesis.com/viewtopic.php?t=67079

Black and White vs. Full Color
http://forums.comicgenesis.com/viewtopic.php?t=67218

Help me out here.
http://forums.comicgenesis.com/viewtopic.php?t=67252

how's this for shading...?
http://forums.comicgenesis.com/viewtopic.php?t=67384

Is this any better?
http://forums.comicgenesis.com/viewtopic.php?t=67421

and this one.
http://forums.comicgenesis.com/viewtopic.php?t=67546

"Should I try this?" "Is this any better?" Honestly. Enough is enough. You're getting complaints and I'm the one who has to deal with that. Instead of starting new threads each time you want to ask about your comic, post in the existing one.

You need to learn to see the problems for yourself. If you thinks there's a problem, try fixing it. Do some research. Try a bunch of different styles. You've posted a new thread every 4-6 days. One or two drawings doesn't give you much insight into a style. Draw 10 or 20 pages and then come back to us with what you've learned.

I'm sorry. I didn't think that doing that would be a problem, and I feel bad that so many people are annoyed by it. I guess I'll stop doing that. I don't have a scanner, and I might not have one for a while, so that's another issue that I can't help at the moment. I just hope what I use to draw won't affect people from wanting to read my webcomic. Anyway, I'm really, REALLY sorry about the overposting. I don't like people complaining about something that I've done, and I'll try and stop.

Nicked · Post by **Nicked** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:52 am

prettysenshi2k6 wrote: I don't have a scanner, and I might not have one for a while...

What I used to do was use the library scanner until I got my own. Just make sure that you won't get in trouble using it.

Kris X · Post by **Kris X** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:10 am

Let's put it this way. It's like the story of the boy who cried wolf, eventually the villiagers got feed up with him and fried him for their Sunday potluck dinner. Er... I must have got my stories mixed up. Anyway, the more you ask, the more you become the child who keeps questioning "why?" and no one likes that little bugger.

Just be a wee bit more confident and less posty. We all have our insecurities, we just hide them better. All we can tell you right now is practice, practice, practice. Oh, and stop cluttering the forum too much with threads that have topics so closely related.

Black Sparrow · Post by **Black Sparrow** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:02 pm

Unfortunately for you, it's a lot easier to draw by hand than by mouse (IMO). While working with a pen or pencil, it's easier to get a general idea of what you're doing, instead of just taking it a line at a time. Lines come out smoother and more precise. Mouse handling can be annoying, and lines come out too deliberate.

Then again, scanning it makes coloring it another job entirely...

Do you have a digital camera that you can use as a "scanner"? Or somewhere nearby, like Nicked suggested? It really might be worth it to try scanning, if only to help vary your line width and add a bit more energy to the drawing.

Prettysenshi · Post by **Prettysenshi** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:33 pm

Black_Sparrow wrote:Unfortunately for you, it's a lot easier to draw by hand than by mouse (IMO). While working with a pen or pencil, it's easier to get a general idea of what you're doing, instead of just taking it a line at a time. Lines come out smoother and more precise. Mouse handling can be annoying, and lines come out too deliberate.

Then again, scanning it makes coloring it another job entirely...

Do you have a digital camera that you can use as a "scanner"? Or somewhere nearby, like Nicked suggested? It really might be worth it to try scanning, if only to help vary your line width and add a bit more energy to the drawing.

I think my university's library has scanners but I'm not sure. If it does, would that mean that I'll have to draw my pages, then go to the library and scan there? How would I color it? By saving it?

Sput · Post by **Sput** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:48 pm

yeeup. save it as a HIGH QUALITY JPG. like, 80+. then, use this!

Black Sparrow · Post by **Black Sparrow** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:55 pm

RA wrote:yeeup. save it as a HIGH QUALITY JPG. like, 80+. then, use this!

She doesn't have Photoshop.

Poor girl...

Hope you find a good raster program... Paint can't do Layers, which many of us would die without...

Sput · Post by **Sput** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:17 pm

Black_Sparrow wrote:
RA wrote:yeeup. save it as a HIGH QUALITY JPG. like, 80+. then, use this!
She doesn't have Photoshop. :cry: Poor girl...

Hope you find a good raster program... Paint can't do Layers, which many of us would die without...

agha bagg WHAT?

download a p2p program, dl photoshop and use THAT. pirating>$750~ that or get photoshop elements, which isn't as good but it's something. or do the whole GIMP thing.

Mvmarcz · Post by **Mvmarcz** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:25 pm

how's she doing that shading with just a paint program then? unless inkscape lets you do that

according to aprevious post she's used gimp

so howcome you didn't know about raster and vector?

Prettysenshi · Post by **Prettysenshi** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:48 pm

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Black Sparrow · Post by **Black Sparrow** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:24 pm

Ah, but look how together it looks! And how smooth the outlines. Frankly, your drawing style comes together more in the scan. The outlining work by mouse has all those minute bumps and squiggles that pencil work doesn't.

What many of us do is draw it out in black and white, then color it on the computer. Then again, that would mean a lot of extra work for you, ((If you can even manage it with your program...)) so you've got to think of the trade-offs...

But, hey, I'm just one person. And I'm hogging the posts.

Shinyhugh · Post by **Shinyhugh** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:33 am

I much much prefer the pencilled 8)

Prettysenshi · Post by **Prettysenshi** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:15 am

shinyhugh wrote:I much much prefer the pencilled 8)

Thanks. My dad is coming by today with my old multifunction printer so hopefully, if it works with my new notebook pc, I'll try and use the scanner more often.

Faub · Post by **Faub** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:57 pm

prettysenshi2k6 wrote:I tried Inkscape, but it won't allow me to save as other files or fill inbetween lines, which is something that I really need. It looks like it's only good for line art.

This was all done and output with Inkscape. It took a good 40 minutes because I was messing with the gradients and such, but it can be done. I only did the face with Inkscape. The neck, shoulder and most of the hair was left as is.

You'll notice in Inkscape, every object has Fill and Stroke settings (Ctrl-Shift-F) Set the fill to flat or gradient then set the color. The gradient is not intuitive to work with, but it works pretty well once you get the hang of it.

The shape of the face was done with bezier lines (B). The irises were done with circles filled blue to black with a gradient. The pupils are black circles. The shine is a white circle that is set semi-transparent. The eye lashes are polygons filled black set behind the eye whites. The eyebrows and inside the ear are "Draw Calligraphic lines" simplified (Ctrl-L) several times to reduce their complexity and modified with the Edit Path Nodes (F2) tool. In fact, I used Edit Path Nodes to shape most everything here. Notice the hair. The lips were done with Bezier lines, filled with a linear gradient.

Inkscape is FAR more powerful than you give it credit for but then it also requires a lot bigger time investment than you're willing to make.

EDIT: Oh, yeah. Everything you see was done with a mouse.