Do you have to be born a good artist?

[Soap Soaperson]

I visited this drawing forum, and the following was posted.

My opinion: No, you can't 'learn' to draw well. People can learn to use certain techniques, like shading, using shadows, and so on, but knowing techniques and drawing well are two different things.

I often hear people saying they will take art classes to 'improve' their drawing skills. Sure, like I said, people can learn little techniques, but I don't think one can become a better artist. You are either born a good artist or you aren't.

Please don't mistake me for a negative and pessimistic person, I'm not saying these things to discourage anyone. I'm saying these things because I truly believe them.

I'd like to say I am a good artist. (Now I realize that this is the internet, the one place where people can claim anything). Since there is no way to prove this, I'll just have to trust that you'll believe me. Now, AS a good artist, I can say that all the art classes I've attended only taught me techniques, but I never grew as an artist in the sense that I'm talking about. I realize this sounds almost arrogant, even cocky, but yes, I was BORN a good artist.

To make a long story short, I believe that people need to realize that in the area of art, you either have it or you don't.

What're your thoughts on this? I think to some degree, it's full of poo. But I do agree that some people are born with talent. It doesn't mean anything if you don't pursue it and practice, though. I think.

[Psiogen]

LIES.

[Orion]

putting aside the idea of art school and everything.

I learned to draw the way I do now as do most people, my art started out as crap and slowly became less crap. That doesn't necessarly mean I wasn't born with a limited amount of potential that I can reach (lvl 10 comicer maximum)

however I know that without taking the time to learn, my skills at this point would not be as good as they are. Therefore, even if you have a maximum level of inborn talent its only by learning that you can maximize it.

It does seem undeniable that some people are born with an artistic talent, dunno why. The idea that you can never be "as good" as a person with born talent is sort of hard to prove given just how different artistic styles can be and how hard they are to compare.

As for the classes. meh, I haven't taken enough to say for sure, if nothing else they allow you to practice art and that can't be bad.

[BloodKnight]

I believe so.

Much like anyone else, everyone has a specific talent (a gift if you will) in something. Not everyone can draw 'well' or at least to the point where they can make a living out of it. As the post says, techniques and execution are two different things.

I can never, ever, ever draw good. I will not draw as good as my artist or McFarlane, mainly because I don't have the talent to do so. No matter amount of classes will help me. Why? I'm simply not good with shading or even drawing simple lines properly. Plus I would have to worry about the human body and lighting, which itself is a whole new task.

I can't even write letters and words in legit form because my hand studders constantly. The way I write today is the way I wrote when I was in elementary. No amount of practice helped me made my writing legit.

I think it is a genetic thing. They are people there with the proper dexterity, mindset, and techniques to make a living out of drawing things. Just like they are people who are great actors, awesome directors, able to sell a bridge, program a new game engine to buy themselves a ferrari, and so forth.

[Genesis_13]

Well, I think it's only a bit true. I think it's very hard to learn to be a good artist, but it can be learned.. I do not think it's possible to be born a good artist.

(I also consider myself a good artist, so please bear with me).

I actually asked my father the other day if I was, in fact, born with talent. He replied, in essence, "hell no". I mean, come on! What kid is gonna draw brilliantly with his/her first fingerpainting kit? My first drawings were crap.

I think you can only grow, yourself, as an artist. I think, like he said, that people can teach techniques, which help a lot, but practicing is really important, too. Observing things and doing things on your own is essential.

This is disregarding the physical traits born within you - like your shaking hand, or someone else's physical inability to concentrate.

I'm only a good artist because I draw ALL THE FREAKIN TIME. Truly. I can barely concentrate on anything else. You have to REALLY love art to be good at it.
Some people might be good, but seem casual about it, but they do care to some degree. Or else they wouldn't do it.

Well, that's what I think.

[Sopheia]

I think that unless you're somehow ill (for instance a disease that causes you to shake - thus gives you shaky hands) or if you're somehow genetically different from 'normal' people (eg. colour blind)... you could learn to draw well.

The thing is... it's HOW you learn. You can improve techniques - study human anatomy and such - but you can also learn to see, feel, and generally have the mindset of an artist. With that I'd like to point out to drawing with the right side of your brain. That's a book not about specific techniques (how to aquarel, how to draw humans) - it's a book about learning to see things differently.

I for one, have always drawn and always loved to, but it was not until much much later that I learned to see things. And I'm still learning - although now I'm learning to dare, to think, to experiment.

If you look at Vincent van Gogh's first works - he sucked. He never knew how to draw or paint or anything. But he worked hard, and learned from it - experimenting and perceiving - and became one of the most famous artists in the world.

Born you are - with steady hand and normal eyes - you are born with the ability to draw. All you have to do is discover.

[Birdie]

I've been drawing since I was a wee child, I may not be the best artist, but I'm better than most people, and I don't think it's inherited, I think it's just that I love art enough to try and get better at it. Are atheletes born with huge muscles and fast reflexes? Nope, they practice and train to get that way.

and who cares if you are good anyways?

[Soap Soaperson]

and who cares if you are good anyways?

Generally, artists that aspire to draw for a living.

[Wp]

I agree to some extent. I know some people who can draw something on the first try and have it look awesome only going by word of mouth description. Granted, they have had tons of artistic experience, but in order for me to draw something that well by word of mouth, I have to have actually seen the object/scene and have the pose in mind, whereas these people don't. This means they are able to visualize very accurately. For me to become a "good artist" (as I think I will be able to someday), I have to build a 'library' of images that I have drawn before.

[War]

2 and a half years later...



Personally I'll decide based on what I hear from people who actually have drawing experience . Ability comes from practice, I've seen people go from godawful to outstanding (then I killed them). You do need the right kind of mind. Some people don't have enough imagination to be a good artist, a good imagination is a must have. I'm constantly trying to improve so I can put what's in my head down onto paper, and I'm slowly getting there.

[Van Douchebag]

There are two kinds of artists - those who do art naturally, and those who can't do it naturally so they learn how.

That is the only distinction among them, other than the first group has a head start on the second. Ultimately, however, both groups can draw at the same levels, and those who have only learned art can exceed those to whom art comes naturally.

[Phact0rri]

Can we define artistic Talent? Wherein I was not born with the ability to draw, but I have always been able to play music, and write.

But I've had to claw and bite and bleed for every little bit of artistic knowhow I've ever had.

[Van Douchebag]

"Artistic Talent" is reserved for those engaged in the Fine Arts, while "Musical Talent" is for musicians and "Lyrical/Poetic Talent" is for those who write.

[BOMC]

I am inclined to believe that you don't have to be born with any artistic talent in order to gain some. That would imply that their is some sort of "artist's gene" and if you don't have that, you are screwed.

IMHO, I think it depends on how fast you learn. I have had experience trying to teach children to draw; some pick it up right away, other's take a while. Does that mean one child is more artistic than another? It is probably that, when it comes to fine motor skills, one learns faster. Or that one is better at paying attention to small details.

Another example is that of me and a friend of mine. When we were young, she was the artistic one, and she was an excellent artist. I also loved drawing, but just wasn't nearly as good. Then, she got more into sciences while I was still plugging away at art. Today, she draws about the same as she did when she was 11, whereas I have improved infinitely.

What is my point? That everyone has the some potentional; the only difference is how long it takes you to reach it.

[The Neko]

While there are many theories of intelligences, (such as Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences, Anderson's theory of intelligence, and Ceci's bioecological theory,) all of them, in some form, show that there is a limit that people have in specific areas, which could be said is governed by Charle's Spearman's concept of a general intelligence factor (called g). One's IQ can be considered the size of g, of which other abilities take up room.

So, I guess I would say that some people may not be destined to become incredible artists, but others (such as those who are gifted in visual-spatial abilities, which is tested for on Weschsler's Adult Intelligence Scale, and I also think on the Stanford-Binet Intelligence Scale) have the potentiality. However, nothing can come out of no practice, and people who may not have the best potentiality can become better, but not reach the same heights, OR learn as fast.

Or something.

[KathleenJ]

I think it's bullshit. There's this mindset that being "born an artist" is like being born a wizard, and the rest of the muggle population better not even try if they don't have the gift. This just contributes to the impression people get of the visual arts as haven of elitism, and widens the gap between art and everyday life.
Drawing is part technical skill/knowledge and part intuition, but both those things are built with practice. Yes, some people are naturally predisposed to thinking visually, and some people at the other end of the spectrum just can't grasp it (like some others just can't do math, for instance)...but I think the vast majority of people in the middle have the ability to learn those skills if they dedicate themselves to it.
I think the reason a lot of people have the impression that they can't be a "good" artist is that in most kids' schools, the basics of learning to visually render things aren't taught at at all along with the reading, writing, math, etc. So most of the kids assume that this skill they've never been taught is some magic they just can't do, while the few kids who naturally understand it a little without being taught look like they've been blessed by God or something.

Me, I was not born with drawing talent. Not at all. I've been drawing all my life, but only really started to learn about four years ago. Although I still have a long way to go, I feel like I've made a lot of progress.

[Ghastly]

All art is a combination of two parts, skill and talent. One can be taught the other can not. Most artists tend to have more of one than of the other and many seek to bring a balance to the mix. A certain level of both is needed to be able to successfully communicate as an artist because art is simply the communication of an idea.

Some artists have a lot of talent but not much skill. They have vision and inspiration and imagination and things to say that are truly increadable but they lack the means to express these ideas so for the most part they remain locked up inside their heads, uncommunicated, or not communicated to their full potential.

Some artists have a lot of skill but not talent. They know how to effectively communicate the ideas but they have little or no original ideas of their own. They can copy someone else's ideas and even modify them a bit but they lack vision and inspiration and have little that is truly their own to say. They'll probably be quite successful in producing consumable art that imitates the talent of other more innovative artists but they'll never actually innovate themselves.

Anyone can aquire skills. All it takes is discipline, practice and study. The more work you put into aquiring new skills the faster they'll improve. Most of us are improving our art skills all the time, even people who seem to have polished their art skills are likely still learning and improving their skills. It's pretty hard to stagnate in this department as long as you keep making art. The improvement of skills can be dramatic or less so. By simply looking through the archives of my comic I can visually see my skills as a visual artist improving. By listening to past recordings I can hear my skills as a musician improving. There's nothing mystical or transcendent about improving your skills. It's all just a matter or work and practice and study and anyone can do it.

Talent, however, can't be taught, at least not in the conventional means. I wouldn't say talent is something you're born with but it isn't something you can learn in a classroom. The only teacher of talent is life. Talent is awaken in you through your experiences and through self reflection. Some people can go through most of their life without talent and then suddenly some event will awaken it within them. Some people can go through their life with lots of talent and suddenly have some event snuff it out. Some people go through cycles where their talent ebbs and flows. Unlike skills, talent is for the most part something outside out realm of control. There are things we can do to nurture and stiffle talent both in ourselves and others but ultimately the variables involved in talent are too complex and chaotic to be fully understood much less controlled.

So don't worry too much about the talent aspect. The inspiration will either be there or it won't and there's nothing you can do to force it. You just have to let the talent flow. Your best bet is to just try to experience as much in life as you can. The more broad your mind the more open it will be to the muses.

Skill, however, is something you can control. Always work on improving your skills as an artist. Your skills are the vocabulary with which you will express your talents. But don't put yourself under uneccessary pressure. Learning skills is a journey, not a race. There's no one path to take and there's no one speed to travel. Go which ever ways work for you at the time. It's not important how fast you travel only that you remain in motion.

[Wp]

You'll notice, War, that even 2.5 years ago you had a pretty good grasp of proportions. It took me years to get up to that point.

[TheLoserHero]

I gotta tell you right now, I have no artistic talent. The first thing, the FIRST thing I ever drew, when I was around 3-4 years old (I remember the moment clearly, cause it was a turning point) was a drawing of my mom's drawing of a car. I don't remember the intricacies of the car, but back then, I thought it was the greatest thing in the world. Like magic, she made a car come out of nowhere.

Naturally, I tried to emulate it... with less than sexy results. I began a feverish race to try and do what my mom did. Years, I did this. That picture of the car my mom drew has since been lost forever in the sands of time, but I still remember that feeling-- seeing something be created in front of me. I wanted to feel that always.

Talent, to me, is not a *DING! EVERYTHING MAKES SENSE ALL OF A SUDDEN* (that's a muse). "Talent" comes from years of doing something so in-depth, so close, that it becomes to feel natural. You see your skill from different angles, you want to get better, you just want to see MORE of the skill.

There's a bunch of early childhood brain-development theory here somewhere, and I'm sure that holds credence (plus I sold that text book for gas money). "Talent' grows best at that time, and I was lucky enough to start to WANT to draw and get better at an early age.

I don't think I've ever said to any artist I've admired "God, you're talented." I've probably said "God, you're a hard worker." I think they'd appreciate it more that I recognize their effort and conviction more.

EDIT: Lots of grammatical errors due to this being my 666th post. EVIL LURKS EVARWHAR!

[Van Douchebag]

You'll notice, War, that even 2.5 years ago you had a pretty good grasp of proportions. It took me years to get up to that point.

Buy one of these - they're $10, but utterly priceless in practice.



I use mannekins to keep proportion when I draw anime or Americana (But not in my White Hydra cartoon style, where proportion is of little aesthetic value)