For the Record...

Postby Michael Martin on Tue Nov 14, 2000 9:00 am

I locked thread 7 so that Wandering Idiot would permanently have 23 posts in that thread. It seemed like a suitable maneuver.
Replies to that thread, if any, should be made here.<P>Edit: Also for the record, this is the 23rd post in this forum.<P>--Michael<P>------------------
<A HREF="http://wscholars.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Weishaupt Scholars</A> -- Fewer obscure inside jokes than the title would seem to suggest!<p>[This message has been edited by Michael Martin (edited 11-15-2000).]
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Postby Michael Martin on Thu Nov 16, 2000 4:40 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EteRock:
<B> What importance if any is the number 23? Is it some sort of conspiracy thing or what?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I picked this all up second hand, so bear with me.<P>There is a purported "Law of Fives," which goes something like:<P><UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> The number 5 appears far too often for this to be merely a coincidence.
<LI> Any other number would do as well as 5.
</UL><P>Really, what this does is blast numerology (which is to say, if you try hard enough, you can "prove" anything you want). But the "standard" interpretation is that anything you can link to 5 is linked to the conspiracy.<P>Like, say, gravity. 32 ft/sec/sec; 3+2 = 5.
Or, in metric, 9.8 m/s/s: 9+8=17, 1+7=8, 8=2^3, 2+3=5.<P>23 has an obvious link to this (2+3 = 5), but the numbers 23 and 17 show up a lot too, largely because they roll off the tongue well. Anything past 1970 or so, you can find 23s and 17s all over the place, usually put there deliberately as an inside joke. (Examples include the Common LISP language guide, which gives as a sample rational number "17/23 -- a not very interesting rational number". Under the "random numbers" entry in the Jargon File, 5, 17, and 23 are listed as "placeholder" numbers -- ones that will generally be used where a number is necessary, but *which* number is kind of arbitrary.)<P>However, it predates this. The classic example is the rather mysterious catchphrase "23 Skiddoo." A more interesting one is the old Asimov story "The Feeling of Power," the high concept of which is that the advent of what are essentially pocket calculators robs the populace of the ability to do math. (This story was written in the 50s, and is rather disturbingly prophetic.) A character is demonstrating the results of a cutting-edge research project, and is challenged to multiply two numbers. The initial demonstration is to multiply, you guessed it, 17 and 23.<P>If you want a numerological link between then (bah), then simply note that 1+7 = 8 = 2^3.<P>Really, though, while I may slip stuff like this into WS, I don't want it to ever directly influence anything. Clues I drop about the nature of the conspiracies in WS will be a lot more overt.<P>Example (not much of a "spoiler", but): The Unknown Benefactors haven't subverted the phone company -- "Phone lines are too insecure." "And flyers <I>are</I> secure?" "Actually, yes..."<P>--Michael<P>------------------
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Postby EteRock on Thu Nov 16, 2000 8:40 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Martin:
<B>I locked thread 7 so that Wandering Idiot would permanently have 23 posts in that thread. It seemed like a suitable maneuver.
Replies to that thread, if any, should be made here.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What importance if any is the number 23? Is it some sort of conspiracy thing or what?<P>------------------
Hell's fool.<P><A HREF="http://smapdi.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Smapdi</A><P>I do not accept this world. To it I shall always say "No".
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Postby A Man In Black on Fri Nov 17, 2000 2:58 am

Although I'm sure Mike will have a little on the Conspiratorial level...<P>Like visions of Easter Island statues! Hee!<P>Hail Eris! All hail Discordia!<P>Okay, I'll nail this one before it gets asked. One of the bits of Conspiratorial lore, courtesy of the <I>excellant</I> Illuminatus trilogy, is Discordianism. Propurtedly there's a group of people out there speading disorder so as to defeat destructive order (or for Reasons Far More Ominous.) These people (who do exist, 'cause I'm one) are called Discordians, and loosely live by the Principia Discordia<a fnord href="http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tilt/principia/">,</a> written by Malacalypse the Younger, who disappeared quite a while ago. If you've seen him, please let us know. (Read it, and you'll see what I mean by "loosely.") Try and pick it up in print some time; Steve Jackson Games has it back in print.
Don't let anone tell you it doesn't exist, for I have a printed copy in my very possetion, and I have a link to it around here somewhere.<P>Anyway, what does this have to do with anything?
The Law of Fives is a Discordian law.<P>And now you know...the rest of the story.<P>------------------
>>so where can i find real enlitenment?
>Try alt.religion.kibology. Or alt.buddha.short.fat.guy.
Nah. Alt.swedish.chef.bork.bork.bork.<p>[This message has been edited by A Man In Black (edited 11-17-2000).]
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Postby Michael Martin on Fri Nov 17, 2000 8:53 am

Also, the name "Weishaupt" is a reference to Adam Weishaupt, who founded a splinter group of the Masons called the "Illuminati" back in the late 18th century and advocated the overthrow of all governments.<P>I've read Illuminatus! (it's a nice set of books to <I>have had read</I>, but slogging through them is fairly tedious... it's been written in a style I've heard called "Stream of unconsciousness") but not the Principia Discordia.<P>And, to reiterate, I'm deliberately not making anything hinge on obscure doctrines of parody religions. Fewer inside jokes than the title would seem to suggest.<P>--Michael<P>------------------
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Postby A Man In Black on Sat Nov 18, 2000 11:20 am

Ahem. The Church of the SubGenius is a parody religion. Discordianism is just a BIZARRE religion.<P>------------------
>>so where can i find real enlitenment?
>Try alt.religion.kibology. Or alt.buddha.short.fat.guy.
Nah. Alt.swedish.chef.bork.bork.bork.
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Postby Wandering_Idiot on Tue Nov 21, 2000 9:49 am

Note: The reason this post is so late in coming is that Keenspace, for some odd and most likely conspiratorial reason, stopped accepting my password. I had to create a new account- note the new snazzy underscore in my name.<P>Perhaps I'm just being as big an idiot as my screen name suggests, but I don't see 23 repiles, just the original post. Ah well, moving on...<P>You've never read the <I>Principia</I>? For shame! (But then, I have yet to read <I>Illuminatus</I>, so I suppose we're even) The MIB's link didn't seem to come out right, so I'll just write it out: <A HREF="http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tilt/principia/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tilt/principia/</A> <P>Anyway, speaking of obscure pseudo-religions, I'd like to direct everyone's attention to <A HREF="http://members.nbci.com/gecko23/moo/index.html" TARGET=_blank>MOOism</A>, my personal favorite for a number of reasons. Visit this link! Read Don Coyote! It will change your Life! Or give you a good laugh! Or give you cooties! Who knows?<P>Disinfo.com has, as I recall, a very good article and links on 23. Most of them, of course, are merely designed to further confuse the reader, but that's the fun of it.<p>[This message has been edited by Wandering_Idiot (edited 11-21-2000).]
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Postby Gwalla on Wed Nov 22, 2000 5:11 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Martin:
<B>The classic example is the rather mysterious catchphrase "23 Skiddoo."</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><A HREF="http://www.teleport.com/~ingebret/" TARGET=_blank>fnord</A><P>Hey there! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">
<P>------------------
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Postby Gwalla on Wed Nov 22, 2000 5:14 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wandering_Idiot:
<B>Perhaps I'm just being as big an idiot as my screen name suggests, but I don't see 23 repiles, just the original post. Ah well, moving on...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>He means your total number of posts. Look under your name next to your post.<P>Post totals recorded on a thread only update each time a new post is made to that thread. Weird UBB quirk.
<P>------------------
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Postby Wandering_Idiot on Tue Nov 28, 2000 5:11 am

MIB, what happened to your groovy hidden-in-the punctuation-link in the last post? (And just for the record, I did see the earlier one but thought it was a mistake) Now the link doesn't lead anywhere!<P>
<i>The Church of the SubGenius is a parody religion. Discordianism is just a BIZARRE religion.</i><P>Actually, the Pricipia is quite parodical at times. The best example I can think of is the section on how to convert unwashed heathens to Discordiansim :) And anyway, it's never been conclusively proven whether Discordianism is a religion disguised as a joke or a joke disguised as a religion. So there! Eris shall prevail!!
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Postby Michael Martin on Tue Nov 28, 2000 6:53 am

This might or might not be interesting; you Discordian types can tell me if it is or not.<P>Consider the following "catechism:"<P><UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> I must distrust everything told to me by authorities.
<LI> I must attempt to subvert all belief systems.
<LI> Even my own belief systems.
<LI> <I>Especially</I> my own belief system.
<LI> Knowledge that <I>can't</I> be changed or subverted isn't very useful.
<LI> The best knowledge is that which can be subverted, but has resisted subversion repeatedly.
</UL><P>Guess the belief system this comes from.<P>No, not Discordianism, though I *think* that it fits it quite well (this is what I want to ask you Erisians about).<P>That up there is the doctrine of the scientific method.<P>So, if that catechism <I>does</I> match Discordian doctrine, we have a proof by existence that Religion and Science don't have to conflict!<P>--Michael<P>------------------
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Postby A Man In Black on Tue Nov 28, 2000 12:49 pm

My link came out fine; sharp eyes will <A HREF="http://www.didyouthinkiwouldbeTHISunsubtleaboutsucthings.com" TARGET=_blank>prevail</A><a href="http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tilt/principia/">.</a> Try clicking around for a bit. I know HTML rather well, so only the sharpest
of eyes will prevail. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif"><P>------------------
>>so where can i find real enlitenment?
>Try alt.religion.kibology. Or alt.buddha.short.fat.guy.
Nah. Alt.swedish.chef.bork.bork.bork.<P>Read Aeire's <A HREF="http://queenofwands.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Queen of Wands</A><A HREF="http://http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tilt/principia/" TARGET=_blank>,</A> coming in December.<p>[This message has been edited by A Man In Black (edited 11-28-2000).]
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Postby A Man In Black on Thu Nov 30, 2000 3:09 am

One too many rules. Sorry, Mike. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">
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Postby Wandering_Idiot on Thu Nov 30, 2000 10:22 am

Nice try, buddy. Let's see- Science generally doesn't believe in Religion. Discordianism is a religion that doesn't belive in itself. Therefore, Science and this particular religion *do* have something in common- neither of them belive in Discordianism. But wait! There's more. One of the main requirements to be a Discordian is to disbelieve in everything it stands for. (And, on occasion, everything it doesn't.) There is no true Discordian who isn't a heretic. Our only real heretics are, in fact, people who go against strict Discordian rules and actually belive them! Because they are such heretics, we welcome them all the more! In any case, the disbeliever clause means that *everyone* is, by definition, a Discoridan. Some people just don't know it yet. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> I am also a member of <A HREF="http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tilt/principia/" TARGET=_blank>Thee Curch ov MOO</A>, and since being a member of other religions is strictly against Discordian doctrine, I am considered a good Discordian by all my peers not currently institutionalized. So, getting back to your original point, although Science and Religion may be somwhat compatible, Discordianism isn't compatible with <I>anything</I>. Including itself. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif"><P>Since I broke the most important rule of Discordianism by having a halfway-serious conversation about it, I must go perform penance by eating 5 bunless hot dogs... Bye, all.<p>[This message has been edited by Wandering_Idiot (edited 12-06-2000).]
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Postby Michael Martin on Fri Dec 01, 2000 1:16 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Calliope:
<B>This whole Illumnati crap, of course, being a 5.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Of course. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif"><P>[EVIL CARTOONIST]
You will notice that <I>all</I> the Illuminoids, bar none, AMiB included, are in the position AMiB claimed Hal is in on the Idle Speculation thread -- thinking that their "knowledge" of the soi-disant "Secret Masters of Everything" is at least partially accurate.<P>The "Maddeningly Vague" nature of the Unknown Benefactors <I>could</I> mean that they're actually comparatively <I>weak</I> -- "just" a multinational corporate cartel or something. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">
[/EVIL CARTOONIST]<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Calliope:
<B>I pity the fools who don't know the REAL meaning of 23...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, yes, we know how much you despise all this 5 and 23 stuff. As is clearly evident from your last post. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/tongue.gif"> See, there's no escape.<P>--Michael<P>------------------
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Postby Calliope on Fri Dec 01, 2000 3:32 am

Actually, I just said 5 to spite you.<P>And if you really want to know who's ruling the world/galaxy...I should warn you, you DON'T want to know.<P>------------------
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Postby Michael Martin on Fri Dec 01, 2000 4:14 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Calliope:
<B>And if you really want to know who's ruling the world/galaxy...I should warn you, you DON'T want to know.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Conspiracy theories of all stripes are welcome here. After all, the whole reason conspiracy theories exist <I>at all</I> is because the most probable answer, "Nobody's in charge at all. The world just <I>is</I> like that," is more frightening to some minds than the answer "It's all because of a small evil group to whom nobody you know belongs."<P>We do seem to be wired to want power structures to be very simple. Too bad they generally aren't.<P>--Michael<P>------------------
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Postby Calliope on Fri Dec 01, 2000 7:34 am

I really SHOULD get around to seeing more of Nadesico, if only to calibrate and complete the Ruri-chan Scale of Idiocy. A scale of 1 to 5 Ruris, based on how inherently STUPID something is. 1 being "What was he thinking?" and 5 being "What was he SMOKING?!" (insert random #crfh "bad Mexican crack" comment here...)<P>This whole Illumnati crap, of course, being a 5.<P>baka baka baka baka baka<P>I pity the fools who don't know the REAL meaning of 23...<P>------------------
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Postby A Man In Black on Fri Dec 01, 2000 8:22 am

No, no, no. The reason conspiracy theories are allowed to be spread around the fringe of society is so as to discredit conspiracy theories in general!<P>If I go up to someone, and with my reputation for oddness, rattle off a whole theory of a small evil group controlling the world, not only will the (presumably normal) target of my rant not believe me, but, if someone more credible tells them, they'll brush it off, thinking, "Oh, that sounds like something -name deleted- would say."<P>Fnord.<P>------------------
>>so where can i find real enlitenment?
>Try alt.religion.kibology. Or alt.buddha.short.fat.guy.
Nah. Alt.swedish.chef.bork.bork.bork.<P>Read Aeire's <A HREF="http://queenofwands.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Queen of Wands</A>, coming in December.
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Postby Calliope on Fri Dec 01, 2000 8:50 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Martin:
<B> Conspiracy theories of all stripes are welcome here. After all, the whole reason conspiracy theories exist <I>at all</I> is because the most probable answer, "Nobody's in charge at all. The world just <I>is</I> like that," is more frightening to some minds than the answer "It's all because of a small evil group to whom nobody you know belongs."<P>We do seem to be wired to want power structures to be very simple. Too bad they generally aren't.<P>--Michael<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Okay then.
If I told you that the galaxy as we know it is ruled by a 15 year old with an ego bigger than Jupiter, would your head explode?<P>------------------
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