humor vs. story

Skylark King · Post by **Skylark King** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:04 am

I've got two projects in the works right now. One is story-based and one is niche-humor-driven. The story based one I've been working on on-again-off-again for years in one format or another and if I ever get around to getting some art done for it (I'm a writing machine, just not a drawing one, yet) I could go several years without needing new material. The humor one is a newer idea. It has a through thread but no through plot and basically just pokes fun at anime fans and anime cons (something I know A LOT about) the writing for that is easy right now, but I can see me running out of fresh ideas quickly. I don't have to worry a lot about keeping the story together or character development (right off) but more about keeping the readers comming back each time.

With a humor strip if you're off once you run the risk of loosing new readers, so you ALWAYS have to be on. If someone comes to your humor comic for the first time and it's not funny they won't go archive diving (a hobby of mine) and they won't come back for the next one.

With a story based-strip it is harder to gain new readers when you're deep inside a story, it's almost a given that a new reader will be lost reading 'today's strip.' The pressure to always be on isn't as high, but the challenge to get new readers to check backstory is greater and more important.

My top ten list is mostly humor strips (7/10) but #1 is a story strip. Go figure.

Post by **Mercury Hat** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:12 am

Someone mentioned making each page its own, that is, making a page a bit of a stand-alone. This is how I approach my story comic and the others I enjoy reading do this as well. I think the key to a story comic is to give each page its own little beginning, middle and end. You don't want the reader to feel a sense of "That's it?", you want them to think "Wonder what happens next?"

Humor does seem to work well for this as a page-ender. In a story comic it seems easier to come up with a gag since you're much more familiar with the characters and situation. I know I've had a few pages delayed because I couldn't come up with a way to end the page.

That said, it's very easy to over-do it by ending too many pages with a gag or too many with a dramatic cliffhanger (omg!). Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire is fine when it's going for the what's gonna happen next angle, but the gags are getting more and more forced and grating. It's a daily M-F, too, which makes the grating all the more apparent.

And to Joel, Kagerou: An Electric Manga updates in pieces, three on one day every week, though that's not much better than a MWF comic. I would LOVE to be able to do, say, 10 or 15 pages every two weeks or so which means I wouldn't have to worry so much about the self-contained pages, but I don't think I have the drive. It definitely is something to strive for and think about, though.

Skylark King · Post by **Skylark King** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:27 am

Mercury_Hat wrote:Someone mentioned making each page its own, that is, making a page a bit of a stand-alone. This is how I approach my story comic and the others I enjoy reading do this as well. I think the key to a story comic is to give each page its own little beginning, middle and end. You don't want the reader to feel a sense of "That's it?", you want them to think "Wonder what happens next?"

The problem I see with that (at least with my writing style) is that it's incredibly difficult (and sometimes counter-productive) to make each page it's own in a story comic without hurting the story as a whole. Keeping the action moving to keep the story moving is great and important, but when it slows character development and hinders pacing is it really worth the effort? I can see giving each page it's own beginning and middle and implying that end is comming next update. Doncha wanna see it? I know you do. Come back to see what happens.

I guess it also depends on the story. Some stories easilly can get away with B-M-E style pages, others cannot. Knowing which style of writing best suits your comic is key, I suppose.

Don't listen to me, though, I lack experience as a webcomic writer. I'm just going off of the sort of thing I like to read and the type of writing I tend to do.

BryanOlsson · Post by **BryanOlsson** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:50 am

I enjoy both, however a straight story comic is much harder for me to read, at least when it goes day by day. There isn't any instant gratification, and therefore much harder to hold an interest. Sure the delayed gratification works, but not if you go for months without anything. Adding humor gives the instant gratification to help you stick with the story for the big payoff at the end of a storyline arc. Good example of that is Jamie & Nick.

I would say it is much harder to come up with humor, since lots of mediocre or bad jokes will drive someone away much faster than just a mediocre story line. To be consistantly funny is a gift that a lot of webcomicers out there don't have.

Vorticus · Post by **Vorticus** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:10 am

I like it best when a comic uses both. However, the only gag comics that I find perputually funny are the ones that cater to a specific sense of humor like Penny Arcade. That said, it's a lot of fun to read the archives of a comic that uses gags to tell a story because the cumulative effect of the gags unified by the story enhances the reading.

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:25 am

RC is neither a funny nor a story comic, really.

I like 'em both and have great respect for both kinds of artists. I couldn't reliably do either one.

My personal preference for comics I follow is that they not lose me. If a daily funny comic launches into a long set of angsty strips just to get to a funny point, I might lose interest. Ditto a story-based strip that breaks into strip after strip of non-story related humor.

That's not to say that a story writer couldn't write humor or vice versa, just that as a reader I come to expect certain things from the comics I read. It concerns me when artists switch gears to another style of writing. It's often not done well.

If an artist shifts gears into another style of writing, it has to be smooth enough to hold my interest during the transition or I'll probably ignore the comic for awhile. And then, I'll end up shuffling my links, and before you know it, I'm not watching that comic at all anymore.

Zuri · Post by **Zuri** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:44 am

I think firstly you should do what you do best.

Frankly, I suck at humor. I'm not a funny person, and my sense of humor is rather quirky. I tend to like more sophisticated situational humor than slapstick jokes. For this reason, I've found very few humor based strips hold my interest for more than one or two strips that I found mildly amusing. I'm a 'tough audience' member to hold humor wise. BUT if you've got a story that even touches on one of my myriad of interests, I'll probably read at least a portion of it.

So when it came to doing my own webcomic, I decided to do what I liked and what I knew. Which was a story based comic, mostly action/dramatic with situational humor. I did get a writer for a while, but I think its added some serious complication to the comic since he's left now, and I'm writing. The flow is very odd because of two different creative perspectives.

But my point with this is that my humor is definately not suited to the masses and I know I couldn't come up with funny material 7 days a week, but I have stories to tell, so story comic was the logical choice. But if I had been someone who was funny, but didn't have much in the way of stories, I would have done a humor strip. The point is, you should do what you are good at, not whats popular or whatever.

Now as for the update schedule thing...

I've thought about it, and I think there are a few reasons why it isn't done as much.

1) it requires a LOT of discipline. You have to make sure you complete your pages without the pressure of a daily looming deadline. Its sooo tempting to say " aw, i've got till the end of the month, this can wait" ( artists are lazy creatures..) and then you end up not finishing the pages you set out to do. Many artists, myself included, need that pressure of a deadline to get the page done.

2) Keenspace and most other hosting services are geared towards daily updating. Part of the reason I came to keenspace was so that I would have an archive system and everything already taken care of for me, so I wouldn't have to always worry about manually building an archive. BUT the way it is set up is for daily comics, one page a day. Its not very friendly for issue based comics. You'd have to post or pre date your pages to release them all at once, and then even then they wouldn't show properly ( you'd either have to back track or wait for one a day, so the problem isn't really solved). You can't update multiple pages in the same day. Someone said that story comics are like their own genre, and they are right. They have different requirements to be updated as books rather than a daily ha ha. They are a totally different animal.

3) Forums, livejournals and feedback tends to happen when one updates. Then it peeters out until the next update, regardless of it is peacemeal or as issues. Many comic creators find the feedback a strong motivator and want to see it happen more often, so they will tend to release a page, get feedback, take that back into account, do next page, post, get feedback, on and on. If it was posted once a month, they would get feedback.. once a month. Most of us want feedback more than once a month.

4) Comic promotional tools are generally geared towards those who update frequently. The newsbox, comic trackers, top lists, and so on, tend to require frequent updating to keep readers coming back or even QUALIFY for impressions. If you don't update for a while, the newsbox stops showing your comic for example. If the readers aren't coming back to click on your top links and vote for your comic, you lose impressions there too. So, you might update day 15-30 pages once a month, you will NOT get the same exposure as someone who updates 15-30 pages daily. Its just how it works.

5) Readers are creatures of habit. They get into the habit of checking their comics. Its much harder to get them to remember to check in once a month, than drill " monday, Wed, Friday" into their heads. or even " Every Thursday". This is why a regular schedule is a good thing.

6) Meeting reader expectations in terms of presentation is using a daily format. Most people expect to see a comic on the first page, and be able to navigate the whole archive from the front page, because this is how most people see comics handled. They expect the most recent page on the index page. But if you were going to release by issue, this format is really cumbersome. It would be better to have a seperate page where the new issue navigation/archive is and just have news/promo art and stuff on the front page. But this pisses readers off. So the story/serial is being kind of forced into a format that isn't really suited for it. People want to be able to navigate your comic in the way they are familiar. They want to know what to expect. They expect the daily format. If you don't use it, you get people bitching at you because you don't. Even if it doesn't make sense.

I'm sure there are other reasons as well, but these are probably some of the most prevailent. It takes a lot more than most artists have to do a batch update, and when they do, its still a pain in the ass because most of the automated systems don't handle them well. So we do them like everyone else. Page by page.

Its actually easier if the reader just pops by once a month and reads what they've missed if they want to read in batches, given the cumbersome nature of the system. Then they can get their bach reading and we can still enjoy the benefits of updating frequently and use systems like keenspace.

[AOD] · Post by **[AOD]** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 12:03 pm

I guess you could consider ITEOTW! to be a story comic, as it does happen to have a set plot, but that in itself is pretty flexible and meandering. Like my characters, I never set out with a specific plan in mind, just a vague idea of where I want to go and how to get there, and make it all up along the way. For certain purposes this works, as ITEOTW! happens to be a pretty gaggy comic (in more ways than one, I assure you. Just try to stifle that reflex - I wouldn't anyone damage their keyboards...), but when a strong plot rears its head (like the one I'm working on now. :p) it gets kind of hard to improvise...

@~AoD

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:59 pm

Both are cool. 8)

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 4:14 pm

Zuri wrote:Now as for the update schedule thing...

I've thought about it, and I think there are a few reasons why it isn't done as much.

1) it requires a LOT of discipline.

Aye.

2) Keenspace and most other hosting services are geared towards daily updating.

3) Forums, livejournals and feedback tends to happen when one updates.

4) Comic promotional tools are generally geared towards those who update frequently.

Well, you don't have to release an issue all at once. You can finish it and then release a page a day until you run out again.

5) Readers are creatures of habit. They get into the habit of checking their comics.

The Webcomicslist takes care of this. I said earlier that such a comic should actively encourage its readers to use it.

- Joel Fagin

Pimpette · Post by **Pimpette** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:01 pm

I started mine as a humour-driven strip...

...it developed storyline all on its own, I swear.

I don't always get a joke in at the end of each strip, but I always try to end each one with something - either an attempt at humour, or something to the effect of a "cliffhanger" in the hopes that the reader will be eager (or at least willing) to see the next update.

TheGoobla · Post by **TheGoobla** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:03 pm

I'm not sure I know anything about either. People who've read my comics/fiction should be able to back me up there.

Fullcircle · Post by **Fullcircle** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:08 am

I love the idea of pimping the Webcomics List /(^v^)\ I'm gonna get on that, and I really do hope to work up to your issue idea. I'm still learning and getting in the swing of things, and in posting once a month hope to get ahead of the game as I get faster... Then switch out into more frequent updates once I feel I have enough padding. In the meantime, not advertising much (not till I have a nice archive) and just learning the ropes of page layout.

I know the slow story comics can be frusterating to people, but it's so hard to resist sharing when you have a page done, and if I don't put it up I'll think of things I want to fix or change and never get started on the next one. So uploading them now for a future date is a great help, and at least a start.

~SR

Phact0rri · Post by **Phact0rri** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:00 am

well i think most comics are both some lend themselves more to one than the other... at least all the ones I read.

humor comics have storylines, they are just funny storylines and they usually don't last long...

Story comics have funny elements but are more long ended storylines.

thats just my take on it. I can't get into random "gag" comics that don't have much character to them...

and I can't get into long winded boring story comics that have nothing going on but some some floating meta plot....