Joining Westboro Baptist Church, pros and cons

[Vedius Pollio]

After seeing a documentary about Westboro Baptist Church (http://www.queerty.com/documenting-the- ... -20081121/) I've become really interested in joining it. I think the Westboro Baptist vision of God and the Universe is the most beautiful, out of all the forms of Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism. The members of the Church revere a God of pure hatred and misfortune and smile at death, destruction, and misery.

I have not seen people with that much courage in any other community, the courage to take abuse from the mainstream world, to take everything with a smile.... their homophobia is superficial, but the beauty of their religion, I hope, will be remembered even if their church is disbanded.

I am now seriously considering joining WBC after finishing my honours and writing my novel.

Could you guys offer your opinions?

[Illithid Tentacles]

WBC is just RL trolls. They pull the shit they pull so they can provoke people into attacking them so they can sue the police for not doing thier jobs. I'm sure there are members who actually beleive the stuff they say they do, but the motivation behind the people in charge is provoking situations that allow them to sue someone, despite whatever they might say.

[Protagonist]

Ah yes, the people who hate the world and an everything in it. While I don't have a problem with hating everything, I must say that they seem to focus on the wrong things to hate. Also, why do they feel the need to make up some sort of religious justification for their hatred? Anyway, there's my two cents on the matter.

[Xero]

Ah yes, the people who hate the world and an everything in it. While I don't have a problem with hating everything, I must say that they seem to focus on the wrong things to hate. Also, why do they feel the need to make up some sort of religious justification for their hatred? Anyway, there's my two cents on the matter.

this is any different than the creation of standard Christianity how
in the 'lets make a religion just to troll people and gain money' way

[Protagonist]

Ah yes, the people who hate the world and an everything in it. While I don't have a problem with hating everything, I must say that they seem to focus on the wrong things to hate. Also, why do they feel the need to make up some sort of religious justification for their hatred? Anyway, there's my two cents on the matter.

this is any different than the creation of standard Christianity how
in the 'lets make a religion just to troll people and gain money' way

Depends on which branch of Christianity you're talking about. They all forked off from each other for various reasons. Take the 'non-denominational' types, for example. The ones I've met seem to be unhappy with all the nonsense of organized religion, so they ignore it and develop their own ideas. Of course, from what I've seen, they end up getting together with others who agree with them and forming their own little groups, which seems to defeat the purpose.

[Seth Marati]

Short version: Are you insane?

Long version: Are you fucking insane?

There's nothing courageous about what these people do. They emotionally assault people when they're distressed and vulnerable so that they can inspire feelings of hate towards their own group and justify their own contempt for the world. They would have no need for so-called "courage" if they didn't preach their reprehensible message. And having just watched the documentary myself, I don't see its members "taking everything with a smile" so much as I see their minds trying desperately not to crack under the stress of it all. A true believer, or to put it another way, a competent believer, would be able to back up their viewpoint rationally and confidently. These people respond to pressure with denial and hostility.

Let me try to avoid arguing about matters of taste, and focus more on the theology, since it's what you're interested in. I see a ton of problems with the WBC view. Basically, the whole thing boils down to being gratified by a worldview of "us vs. them." They take pleasure in distancing themselves from the rest of the world, after being told that there is essentially Right and Wrong, and nothing else. They feel that avoiding and condemning Wrong will automatically make them Right. It doesn't occur to them that, for instance, their conceptions of both Wrong and Right may both be condemnable in the eyes of an omnipotent judge, who may have different standard entirely. They believe that their worldview is right because it makes them feel good. This, in spite of how they preach against personal gratification.

Setting aside the likely web of coercion that brings and keeps their members in the fold, adopting this sort of philosophy requires the abandonment of intelligent thought. Look at the way these people think. Their basic philosophy is juvenile and spiteful, boiling down to "Everyone I disapprove of is going to suffer eternally, and I will watch the whole thing from Heaven jerking off the entire time." They can't see the world outside of themselves: that one woman said the current generation was "all about" fornication, and seemed completely unaware of how the "current generation complains about the subsequent one" pattern has been repeating itself for some time now. They can't recognize nuance in people's actions: to them, the entire world is viewed in black and white, most of it black. They can't separate individual behavior from that of a supposed collective: it's not people in an area that will be struck down, but the entire nation and every one of its inhabitants. According to them, everyone who's not part of their church serves their own lust. They don't see people as individuals, which is further demonstrated by the following observation. If someone throws a cup of soda at their kid, it's an individual's fault. If someone gets killed overseas, it's the will of God. Never mind how, in each case, there was another person at the other end of the action. Just like someone had to throw the cup, someone had to fire the bullet or assemble the bomb that killed an American soldier.

What do you expect to get out of joining this church? Do you really think you can escape the "superficial" anti-homosexual sentiment that permeates the place? They're up to their asses in rituals that reinforce hatred and a spirit of condemnation; anyone who won't participate is viewed with contempt and mistrust. And speaking of which, do you really think you'd be able to get in? Cults are predatory by nature, but this one is composed almost entirely of relatives and descendants of its founder. There is one visible outsider, but he brought his family in with him. He can't act out or raise too much trouble without putting them at risk. You, I presume, are looking to join by yourself. You won't have that sort of vulnerability that the leaders of the church can use to hold sway over you. To them, you could be an infiltrator or a subversive. I really doubt they'd let you into their group without something they could use to cow you. And even putting everything else aside, just what in the hell do you hope to get out of joining this institution, anyway?

God, I don't know why I still bother with this godforsaken forum.

[Vedius Pollio]

Short version: Are you insane?

Long version: Are you fucking insane?

I wrote that post really late at night.

Also, the thing that briefly made me want to join them was the way they smiled and giggled when talking about people going to hell, including their own relatives.

There was something so awesomely post-human about that, that I felt a weird romantic feeling at the sheer callousness.

And I *normally* hate callousness, but somehow their callousness was so exceptional that.... ...I don't know. I was crazy.

Also, the previous day, I hadn't slept for over 24 hours due to an assignment. So, I think the sleep deprivation may have had a consciousness-expanding effect on me...

[Vedius Pollio]

And I guess, last night, I wasn't really seeking to gain anything. I just felt like I was looking for my very own Mr. Kurtz, you know. I wanted to venture into the Heart of Darkness and live there... ..but I was just being weird.

[Leeloo]

God, I don't know why I still bother with this godforsaken forum.

Because VP isn't the only one here?

Anyway, it makes it much easier if you assume that he is just posting to keep himself awake. Notice how he tends to change his mind about his most crazy ideas once he does get some sleep.

[Warmachine]

There would have been little you could have learnt from such people unless you wish to study self-destructive and spiritually crippled people in order to be a counsellor, psychiatrist or criminologist. A fascinating subject, like everything, but you only have time to focus on your talents and profession. Even if dealing with damaged people is your strength, what you could learn isn't worth the colossal effort to get in. Otherwise, remind yourself to expand your consciousness in useful directions.

[Vedius Pollio]

Yes, I find all types of cripples interesting. But not because I want to be a criminologist or psychologist. Those jobs are boring.

I find cripples interesting in the way that Hieronymous Bosch found them interesting. He spent a lot of time sketching monstrous human beings (cripples, derelicts, etc). Or Charles Dickens, who spent hours in the Paris Morgue studying the corpses. (Not like today when you have to have a reason to enter a morgue other than Art.)

I bought a dissection kit the other day, and hopefully I'll get to practice on a dead animal some day. Or I can just kill a seagull or something. There are heaps of the damn things in the middle of Melbourne where they don't belong.

[Heart]

I predict that in a day or two, Vedius will post a poll asking us what he should use his dissection kit on. Most options will be stupid, some will be illegal, and only one or two will be rational.

[Vedius Pollio]

I predict that in a day or two, Vedius will post a poll asking us what he should use his dissection kit on. Most options will be stupid, some will be illegal, and only one or two will be rational.

Homeless people without friends or families is preferable.