My new comic - Your thoughts?

[CMScomic]

If you're not too busy, please let me know what you think of my comic.

http://cmscomic.com/
http://www.thewebcomiclist.com/p/14144/ ... ociety-CMS

It was conceived primarily for print but we've developed a modest web following. We've been approaching comic books stores in LA individually and working deals to get the book on their shelves. We'll be doing an instore signing at the Golden Apple on Melrose in Hollywood in about three weeks and we did a signing at the last LA Shrine Comic-Con.

I honestly feel that this comic, with all its subversive revisionist history, could not be published in the mainstream press. Even though mainstream now incorporates a good deal of nudity and all levels of violence, this comic is largely an experiment weighing free speech versus a person's image as a personal property right. I'm not saying that this book necessarily has the general craftsmanship to be published by a major, but the subject matter is the kind of thing that no major would touch, and that's almost a point of pride with us.

Another 22-page issue will be up in about 10 days.

I hope you enjoy.

[CMScomic]

My neighbor's dog said this is a really good comic. He told me to write this. Sometimes he tells me to do other things. He is a very persuasive dog. If I wasn't so busy playing SFIV I would probably be getting into a lot of dog-mandated-trouble.

[CMScomic]

I just read your first book. Aren't you afraid people are goiong to hate you and throw batteries at you?

[EvilFlea]

My thoughts:

* Put each page on a separate web page. It's too much all in one go.
* The text is far too small. I'm not going to try to read anything that small.
* You sound stupid when you reply to your own posts like that.

[CMScomic]

What would it possibly accomplish to put each panel on a separate page. That is just a gimmick for websites to inflate their traffic. It does a disservice to the reader and I'm not going to implement it simply because it's conventional. I don't feel it's "too much at one go" because you simply stop when you no longer wish to read.

You are 100% correct on the lack of readability. We fixed that today with larger image sizes.

I'm funny.

[EvilFlea]

What would it possibly accomplish to put each panel on a separate page.

The pages would load quicker.
It would make people think, "Oh, I'll just read this little bit."
Then they could click next and read the next page.
Then they could save the page they were up to in their bookmarks, making it much easier to pick up where they left off.
It also makes it easier for them to send a link to their friends to show them a bit they liked, and maybe hook you another reader.

It does a great disservice to your readers to assume they haven't got better things to do than try to scroll to the bit of the page they'd got up to last time. Most people read stuff on the Internet in small chunks. Much like in real life. You don't see The Times printing their Saturday newspaper onto a single sheet of paper.

Make it easy for your readers. If it inflates your site traffic this is because your website is a nicer place to visit - you'll know if site traffic genuinely increases, if you track unique visitors, rather than the hit counts for individual pages.

[CMScomic]

Those are all very good points and I think that represents are very valid and logical way to do things that is different from what we're doing now.

What do you think of "infinite canvas" comics aka "infinity comics?" The story-telling in CMS is determined by the how the print version will be used by the reader, but it's really no extra work to turn the web-version into an infinite canvas. The only consideration that we give the web audience is that we never do a two-page-splash in the interior of the book.

On the inside cover of the print version above all the legal boiler plate it says prominently "This comic can be viewed for free and completely unaccompanied by advertisement at www.CMScomic.com" And that's really the ethos of the website. It's free in every sense of the word and you get all the content in one shot. But you've raised some very real disadvantages to just dumping all that content onto one page.

[Warofwinds]

...until the web can keep up with the artistic epitome of "infinite" canvas, you shouldn't really do it. As a reader, I don't want to scrollscrollscrollscroll (oh hey, what did it say 5 pages ago?) scrollscrollscroll, etc. That is beyond annoying. (Yes, even clicking next/previous is less annoying.) If you don't show advertisements, pageview inflation or lack thereof is moot. Webcomics need to be organized and archived to make it easiest for the reader to back and find specific things...that load fast.

Infinite canvas is a wonderful, interesting concept, but comics should rarely attempt to be viewed in such a manner unless it is necessary.

That being said, your comic looks cool. I'm going to bookmark it and come back when I don't have a killer headache.

[W M]

...until the web can keep up with the artistic epitome of "infinite" canvas, you shouldn't really do it. As a reader, I don't want to scrollscrollscrollscroll (oh hey, what did it say 5 pages ago?) scrollscrollscroll, etc. That is beyond annoying. (Yes, even clicking next/previous is less annoying.) If you don't show advertisements, pageview inflation or lack thereof is moot. Webcomics need to be organized and archived to make it easiest for the reader to back and find specific things...that load fast.

Infinite canvas is a wonderful, interesting concept, but comics should rarely attempt to be viewed in such a manner unless it is necessary.

That being said, your comic looks cool. I'm going to bookmark it and come back when I don't have a killer headache.

^This is very true; just because you CAN make it any size, doesn't mean you SHOULD.
When dealing with infinite canvas, a little restraint will go a long way.

[CMScomic]

Web-comics are headache inducing. That's a big part of why we wanted to do a print book. There's no substitute for paper . . . papyrus not withstanding.

[Warofwinds]

Well, there are a LOT of webcomic archiving systems out there that make it NOT so much a headache. ComicGenesis (this place) offers autokeen. You upload your comics, make your site, and they are automatically archived. DrunkDuck has the same, but is much more geared to people who don't want to handle their sites (so, coding-noobs). There's SmackJeeves, WebcomicsNation, and more.

After 5 years of a making a webcomic though, I can tell you right now that though your STORY may rock, if your comic is not PRESENTED or FORMATTED in a good way, very few people will read it. It's a called a webcomic because the comic exists on the web--so use the strengths of the medium, don't ignore them. Infinite canvas is not one of the strengths I'm talking about, just in case you were wondering (not yet at least!). I'm talking more about instant distribution, audience communication, and a circumvention of print limitations (getting published, price, page size, story length, etc). Yes, the digital medium has it's own limitations to be sure, but you gotta use what you got! If you want people to read your work online, you need to make your site for your webcomic more functional.

I recommend asking here in the Techniques, Tips and Tricks forum, or the General forum, for advice on how to format your webcomic website. Alas, not too many people peek in the Pitching forum anymore!

[CMScomic]

Lots of good advice on format. Any thoughts on story and art?

[Warofwinds]

I really like the idea you have going, certainly has a lot of potential. Your paneling and perspectives are quite good. I think you're introducing concepts and names and allegiances VERY fast, in a semi "info-dump" kind of manner. There is no way I can remember all of that, but it doesn't mean it was uninteresting.

I'm not a B&W artist (or even a pen and ink artist anymore), but in your art I'd like to see some solid black and solid white (it's not your style, but this comic has some of my favorite examples of B/W art). I think that would help clean up the panels a bit. The cross-hatching is lovely, but also somewhat distracting. I shouldn't be talking, but your lettering could be neater. I've never lettered my comic by hand, but instead created a font of my own handwriting. Guarantees straight lines and letters.

Otherwise, I think your faces could use some work. Some perspectives look a wee bit strange.

What I love are the character designs, and how the protagonists are real people, of many different body types. It's quite a change from most print comics I've picked up! The amount of effort you've put into this is clear, and despite my criticisms, I DID like it, and I will read your next installment.

[CMScomic]

Very good point about the info dump. If we were guaranteed a six issue trade, I would have brought that along much slower. But we don't know when we will have to pull the plug do to funding and day jobs, so the egotistical part of me wanted to see all my characters down in print in the first two issues.

I'm not the artist, but my friend is doing all the pencils, inks, letters and he made major improvements in lettering in issue two thanks to some new gadgets. A custom lettering font is the perfect solution but we decided to do this book without using computers at all. Because we are stodgy pretentious jerks. So, I suppose we are web-comic poseurs, we are really print comic enthusiasts who realized how easy it is to plop a print comic onto the web.

Thanks. Truth is stranger than fiction. Look for Octo-Mom Nadia Suleman in our next issue.

[CMScomic]

Are there any other charitable folks out there willing to read my humble comic and share their thoughts?

[VeryCuddlyCornpone]

I volunteer to as soon as I get back from math class. Hooray setting goals!

ETA
Alright, I'll try not to repeat what other people have said- if I do, either I forgot they said it or I just found it important.

I got a little confused by your layout. I know you said you're a big fan of print layout as in on actual paper, but as others have said this is a web comic, and navigation is key in order for people to want to keep coming back to your comic. I kept forgetting what page I was on and without a previous/next button it took me a little bit longer to get to each page, since when reading a comic I don't tend to remember that sort of thing. Now I wanted to read through to the end of your comic, so I did click to each page, but if you got ahold of someone who initially only had a passing interest they might decide to bypass the whole thing if they can't get to each page with ease.

It might be just my crappy dorm internet connection, but how big are your images? I ask because it took a while for each page to load for me- time which might drive a new reader away if they open up your link and think there's nothing there to be loaded.

I really like the black and white. How long have you been working in this style? Now and then a few of your lines and colorings seemed a little uncertain, so I'm wondering if a few odd angles and things I noticed would dissipate with practice. But like I said, I like the b&w. It doesn't work in every situation, but in your case it does- particularly because your characters are noticably different from each other without having to rely on hair color, skin color, etc.

I liked the effect for the wrist cut (yes?) on page 9- I admit I admired that for a good bit before going on to the next page. Nice use of ink.

About the inking though- I see a few pencil lines that remain here and there. Are these your final drafts or a step in the process? (Pardon if you answered that already). Another reason I ask about whether it's a final draft- I noticed a few spelling errors- On page ten I think you meant to say "deity" and on page eleven I think you wanted "confers." Not something that's going to turn everyone away, but it did jar me a little out of the moment in what was a pretty heavy exchange.

Also on page eleven, the phrase that ended in bladder infections made me chuckle- didn't see it coming but it helped give a little more depth to that character.

Page sixteen- the thing where the one fella is diving at the other fella. It looks like you spent a lot of time working on that, unless I'm completely off, but I think you might want to give it another try- it looks a little awkward. Something about the diving dude's arms and the way the hands go around the neck- kind of looks like a bendy toy. I give you props for drawing that as well as you did though, since my attempts would probably be ridiculous.

Page eighteen- another thing, I'm going to take a wild guess and say you took your time drawing the girls at the top of the page. No problem there, but then at the bottom half of the page there's what to me looks like a dam with an oven door type thing in the middle. That particular part looks a little shoddy- I'd go back to it with a ruler. There's some places where you don't need a ruler for a mostly straight line, but when you're drawing things that are industrial it becomes a little more important. The canyon around the dam looks a little rushed to me. You put a lot of loving detail into just about every panel, so that one seemed a little out of place in comparison with the rest. Just my personal opinion- it's just a canyon thing anyway, so in the long run it shouldn't be a big issue.

Page 19- that old witch looking lady is friggin awesome. I like when people take the time to draw teeth. Are we going to see more of her?

Pages 19-21- maybe it's just because I'm tired, but is that one character supposed to be a man or a woman? Because when we first saw Character I thought man but then on page 20 Character's sporting some feminine looking features and I spent a minute or two going over the three pages. Did I miss a detail here or am I just tired and should go to bed?

(Answer: I should go to bed yes, but I'd like to hear your explanation also.)

On the whole, I liked it. Let us know again when you've finished the next batch- I'd like to see where this is going. I'm looking forward to seeing some more of the characters get fleshed out- particularly your main character. Do we ever see the chick from the very beginning again or was she a one-off thing?

The infodump thing- I can say that I've seen worse. I think the reason it's so odd is because he's talking to another character, and usually two people wouldn't talk to each other in that sort of structure. But hey, when ya wanna get the information out of the way real fast to pave way for the action, that's how you do it I guess. If you were to redo any of this, I'd agree with others that maybe that could be extended a little. Not every character needs to be introduced, named, and biographied right away when we meet them- that's what stories are for, they tell us about the character. You can afford to leave a little bit of mystery to everyone's backgrounds- you're the writer, you get to say how long stuff goes on for. Particularly if you have a "character" page on your website that readers could refer to if they suddenly need to recall some information. If you feel that it works, leave it, but if you have time and are willing to put in some effort again, I think it would be worth it.

I went through at least five beginnings for the comic I'm working on now, and scrapped each idea after about a month or so of it sitting round on my desk (and when I say sitting around, I mean the finished work was there, inked colored painted and everything.) in search of something better. Something I finally understood about a month ago- sometimes, having to scrap and redo a panel or even a whole page can be the best thing that happens in terms of your art. I used to fear erasing things that were subpar, just out of fear that I would only redraw it worse. It's important to have confidence that you're improving, even though it may not be immediately noticable.

But it's already pretty good, and interesting. I wish you good luck in your continued endeavours, and in the honing of your stylistic skills.

[CMScomic]

Right, we'll get to work on a forward / back button. Good suggestion.

The average page is 40 mb. Too big?

I looove the wrist cut. I'll let Juan know. I am but the humble writer.

The pencil marks don't show up on the print version but you can still catch some on the scans. Typos are my worst enemy. I blame the letterer since he actually committed them to the page. He, however, is blaming the script.

If there's a bad bladder infection joke, I haven't heard it.

Yeah, the two-fisted Homer Simpson choking may take away from the gravitas of the page, you're right. It looked really cool on my story boards, but then again those were stick figures.

I agree on the canyon, we may have to ret-con that in future issues to a more functional and geometric layout.

The hence un-named Witch of Genoa likely will not be back until a ways down the road. But yeah, that is a good looking witch.

The long haired character on pages 1 and 19-21 is Chris Columbus. All-man all the time. CMS is eventually going to connect a tale beginning in 1491 to the tale taking place in the present, so Columbus will be back next issue.

In the event that this book is cancelled very quickly, the egotistical part of me wanted to see all my character in print, which is why we have the roll call of disputable necessity. Look for a roll call of villains in issue 2!

I'm tempted to do a character page on the website and also plop some un-used sketches on there. We're talking about putting the first four issues in a trade paperback and doing something like that. On the other hand, the tacked on character bios are kind of a crutch relative to organic story-telling. I'm not sure how I'm going to proceed.

Thanks a trillion for taking the time to read the book and write those suggestions. You gave us some very useful and easy to implement stuff. Let me know when your comic is ready or nearly ready.

Issue two is just about done, all 24 pages. We'll probably start teasing it out on the website late next week. The print version is probably 14 days off. I'll post here when there are more pages up. THANKS!

[Warofwinds]

The average page is 40 mb. Too big?

Yes. I don't think yours are that big though. I'm seeing 400kb (.4MB) For full color pages, I recommend keeping it capped at 500kb (.5MB), and even that's large (5 years ago, the cap was 200kb, thank you high speed internets!), but for black and white, you could easily compress that to 200kb with PNG. JPG formatting is normally for colors and gradients, so if you don't have color or gradients, try PNG.

You might find this informative, for webcomic archiving. It's part of my studio blog for people new to webcomics. The article talks about different ways for independent webcomic creators (not hosted by ComicGenesis or Drunkduck, for example) to archive their comics on their personal sites. This includes first/back/next/last comic navigation, which for webcomics, is a must-have.

[CMScomic]

Ah, I see that ads auto-populate at the bottom of threads.