I think I may need…

Guardsman · Post by **Guardsman** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:44 pm

A writing partner for my manga. I’ve been having a hard time getting motivated to do the writing behind my Manga, I have the characters, and the goals, but connecting the dots has gotten pretty difficult for me lately.

I think this is because I work solo and I don’t have any feed back for any of my stuff. So, yeah, with out any one to actually talk about my comic with I kind of just slack. Sucks because with out that motivation I find it hard to even get an update done! Not one in two weeks, makes me feel bad for all my readers.

So the meat of the post, the thing that won’t get it locked, how do you guys write your stuff. Do you have a partner or is it solo like I’ve been doing?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Black Sparrow · Post by **Black Sparrow** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:21 pm

I think everyone gets that every now and then. You love the story (it's your baby, after all) but you just can't get yourself to work on it. I hit that snag many times, and attempted to solve it by powering through despite my wavering interest... ultimately resulting in me hating the comic and putting it on haitus. Not a happy ending.

I've also tried collaborating on a comic before. Ugh. It was icky-no-fun, though I think that was just because the comic wasn't right for me. We have a couple collaborations around here that go rather well. I'm sure one of them will be happy to pitch in on this thread.

However, I'd counsel against collaborating... this is your baby, both in writing and in art... anyone you find on a comic forum just isn't going to love it as much as you do... especially if you already have all the characters and stuff figured out.

It's probably better if you just take your time with it. Don't rush; let the inspiration come to you. If it doesn't, then you'll need to rethink the direction of your comic.

On that note, here are some threads you might want to check out:

How to maintain interest

The writer/artist wanted thread

Phact0rri · Post by **Phact0rri** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:48 pm

I find that mapping out plot points and generally describing things (breakdowns) if you will help writing as much as manikin and blocking helps to compose illustrations. its useful so you can focus on the big picture first then go to each piece individually one at a time.. without the threat of loosing the full on vision.

Serenagold · Post by **Serenagold** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:33 am

I know my comic is a collaboration between me and my brother. We both came up with the story and bounce ideas off of each other to develop it. It works out well because we both have sick, twisted, demented senses of humor and we often top one another with ideas to improve them and/or develop characters. It also works to have two people on an idea so we can figure out what doesn't work.

Additionally, I'm the one with the art skills but he's the one with the motivation (I never get anything done on my own... which explains my other never published or finished comic thats got like 50 some-odd pages that have yet to be scanned and colored... procrationator that I am). He kinda forces me to have the comic up atleast once a week. So it works out well.

Of course, I don't know how effective that would be with someone you've never met that you chat with online. I've often found brainstorming to work best when you can visually see the reactions from the people you bounce ideas off of. Its inspiring.

Shishio · Post by **Shishio** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:00 am

I write solo. Then again, my comic is autobiographical, so it's

a) Usually very easy to write.

b) Almost impossible for it to be a collaboration in terms of writing.

I do collaborate with an artist, but the only input he provides is related to the art, layout, etc. For the most part, I just let him do what he wants, I know he has much better visual instincts than me.

I don't have the same problem you do, as again, it's autobiographical, the dots are already connected; I just have to figure out how to best present the information.

The problem I did have was with quality. My perceptions of my strip are always flip-flopping, but to be honest, without being arrogant, I think I started off strong, (except for the lettering, that has always been fucking terrible) but then I ran out of my best stories, which naturally led to less than stellar strips, and eventually, all I had left were a couple really good ones (that I couldn't figure out how to put into comics) and not so good ones that I ended up using and embellishing for lack of anything else. Writing the strip became more about meeting deadlines than producing quality work.

But now that I'm updating monthly, I think I'm getting back to what made the strip great in the first place.

Salyavin · Post by **Salyavin** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:14 am

I mostly write it on my own, sometimes I do a little ideaballing with a friend of mine.

Goldfish · Post by **Goldfish** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:36 am

I draw for Godseeker, and my fiance writes it. But...its not always easy. You have to draw some clear lines. I have actualy put forth a lot of ideas into the script, and she keeps a close eye on the art and is forever looking for "wonkey" panels to call me on. That being said, lines had to be drawn. If I want to change something about the script, and she dosnt want to..thats it. She wins. If she dosnt like a panel and I do...I keep it. It's for the good of the marriage, and for the good of the comic. I think you might have a hard time finding someone who wants to collaborate if your doing the art AND you have trump-power over the writing. It could leave the other person feeling pretty uninvolved- which is not good for motivation. I sugest deciding what your willing to let go...and be very clear on what powers belong to who. Also...try to find someone you know in the flesh. It just tends to work better.

Dr Legostar · Post by **Dr Legostar** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:44 am

i write solo for Legostar, but i prefer to have complete imput from my artists on other projects, so it becomes more of a collaborative effort, they critique and adjust the writing, i critique and suggest changes for the art, it works nicely that way.

LibertyCabbage · Post by **LibertyCabbage** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:19 am

If you're not satisfied with your writing (or any element of your comic), you could always make a thread in the TT&T forum and get some feedback.

As for the topic, I think it's perfectly fine to consider collaborating with someone else to make up for areas you consider yourself to be weak in. It seems that a lot of people neglect this potential, often to their detriment, for reasons that aren't particularly well-developed. In particular:

Writers: a lot of writers seem to think they're so incredibly talented and brilliant that they can make a great comic regardless of the quality of the artwork. They're probably glad to cite comics like Cyanide & Happiness, Dinosaur Comics, XKCD, Toothpaste for Dinner, White Ninja, etc, as examples of how they don't need artistic ability to make good comics. These people are responsible for a lot of the unreadable garbage out there on the 'net.

Artists: artistic people (that is, those who are more gifted in the visual aspects of their comics) tend to form strong emotional attachments with their work and are thus particularly defensive and sensitive towards criticism of their writing. In addition, artists tend to lack confidence in their writing abilities and, hence, overvalue positive feedback and react in a hostile way towards negative feedback, because their self-image is under-developed. There's an overarching issue in the webcomics community where critiquing artwork is socially acceptable and critiquing writing is significantly less so. and this is one factor in why artists often have an inflated sense of their writing abilities and avoid collaboration.

I'm not supporting collaboration in all cases, though. There are a lot of webcomickers who excel at both the writing and visual aspects of their work, just as there are a lot who excel at neither. And there are a lot of social aspects involved wherein some people just don't work well creatively. But I think a lot of it relates to being honest with yourself regarding your abilities and learning to seek and accept real criticism from people and to not be afraid to complicate things by adding another party to the project.

Shishio · Post by **Shishio** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:09 am

Well said.

Dr Legostar · Post by **Dr Legostar** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:24 am

it's always a little scary when LC is really eloquent and dead on.

LibertyCabbage · Post by **LibertyCabbage** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:44 am

legostargalactica wrote:it's always a little scary when LC is really eloquent and dead on.

I can write okay when I want to =/ I don't think my post is that great, though, because it generalizes too much and it implies that an artist's strong emotional connection to their work is inherently a bad thing, which it isn't. But, I'm expecting some backlash anyways so I guess it's appropriate.

Sortelli · Post by **Sortelli** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:58 am

I thought it was pretty insightful, LC. I hadn't thought of it like that.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:22 pm

I mostly write for myself. I start with a few general ideas, perhaps a few scenes that I think would be really cool to draw (and one good thing in writing your own stuff is that you know what you feel like drawing) and from there make a skeleton of the story.

But, I'm expecting some backlash anyways so I guess it's appropriate.

Your haircut sucks.

Lady Yate-xel · Post by **Lady Yate-xel** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:36 pm

My comic was 'written' so to speak, about 11 years ago when my best friend and I were 10. We've kept up on the story for this long and I decided to take it to comic form. I do all the writing for the comic itself, smoothing out what made sense to 10 year old girls but not to anyone else, and supplement that with little blips and remembrances from her. She enjoys re-living the old stuff, while not actually drawing anything, and I love drawing it and getting feedback from her.

What I find works best, writing-wise, if it's just you, or you and 4 other people, is to make some skeletons. Start with something really generic (I know where my story is headed for the next conceivable forever, so I can map this out way in the future), like story arcs or something. Then go into some details, like -

"ARC1 - the meeting

GUY moves out of his house and ends up in the streets. He meets GIRL. He says he's just moved out. She tells him he never needs to move back in. They form a friendship. Meanwhile, MYSTERYDUDE is watching all they do.

GIRL takes GUY to meet her family of rat people. GUY is freaked out at first, but gets into it eventually. Cute misunderstandings ensue. MYSTERYDUDE begins to send out spys.

etc.etc.etc."
(Not my, nor anyone else's plot there, by the way.)

I then map out pages and dialogue based on these choppy sentences. I get to look at sketchy pages, see where I'm headed in the near future, and hopefully get excited to get to one or more of those pages, AND I know where I'm going even beyond the ones I've mapped.

This way you end up with BIG points - the arc names- and medium points - the 'details' - and can then get the little points - the dialogue and actual actions- between those. Then connecting the dots gets easier.

I guess it's something of making small goals for yourself, and it keeps you from veering off too far onto some tangent that gets you nowhere. Of course, being a little loose with that initial skeleton does give you some wiggle room to add things you may have forgotten, or even something that your readers liked more than you expected they would, if you're into that sort of 'character X is back here by popular demand!' sort of thing.

I'd post some actual examples (like, the crappy sentences and sketches and the pages that resulted), if you're interested, OR if I just failed epically at conveying information.

Phact0rri · Post by **Phact0rri** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:36 pm

its great generalization definitely. And makes a good play for about 90% of people I've seen. Of course I think to be able to tell a story in the comics medium, you don't have to be a great writer. as long as you can plot out a good story, the artwork can do a lot of it for you.

I believe heavily in the fact that a lot of the would be comic writers, who think they are great writers, might be in a different medium. they just want to do comics and don't look at the diffrence between a visual medium and a descriptive medium.

being a great storyteller is what is needed in a comics scripter. A good writer, should do text books, or biographies. being both a good storyteller and a good writer is a rare gift, and being a good storyteller and a good artist is about equivalent IMHO.

Course actually being funny, as apposed to making ones self laugh, is a whole other ball of wax.

Of course like art, I think being able to craft a good story can be learnt. And if anyone feels that there writing isn't up to chops, that they should do like one does when the art is weak. research, and study and practice. its the only way to get better. any skill can be had with enough of a struggle.

LibertyCabbage · Post by **LibertyCabbage** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:17 pm

mcDuffies wrote:
But, I'm expecting some backlash anyways so I guess it's appropriate.
Your haircut sucks.

My barber misunderstood me when I said I wanted something "funky".

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:59 am

So the man walks in to the barbershop and says:
"I want it short at the back and long in front, I want big left sideburn and no right sideburn, I want three big holes on the left side and five small at the right side."

And the barber says: "Gee, I don't know if I'll manage it."

And the man says: "You managed it last time, you asshole!"

Hogan · Post by **Hogan** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:36 am

During the original run of the Evil Overlords I scripted the layout of the strips, then turned them over to Ti-Phil who took the liberty of changing something here and there.
The finished strips was not always what I had envisioned when doing the script, and since we throughout the entire 8 month run worked in the nick of time there was no time to change anything. Still he somehow, in my opinion, in almost all the cases managed to turn out a better strip that I had intended it to be.

I would say this might have been a special case, but it worked!

Jekkal · Post by **Jekkal** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:22 am

Much of the general plot was already fleshed out in a fanfic of mine that spiralled out of control - the page-by-page, however, is far more vague.

Part of the advantage to having a buffer to a weekly comic is that I get a chance to work without the stress of a deadline (aside from the artifical deadline of wanting a certain buffer size) which gives me a chance to 'work for me' first.

It also allows me to edit more throughly. I've already had to throw out a page's script yesterday because I decided to take out a rather risque panel that I had scripted in initially, but liked less when I got to actually drawing it. Had I been working to a shorter deadline, I would've probably gone ahead with it, or if I'd already had published the previous page leading into it, I'd have to hem my way out of the corner I'd already written myself into. With the buffer, I can just edit the previous page's text and rescript that current page (or two), even though I still want to continue with the general plot in that direction.

Having a loose plot is good; having the freedom to realize you made a mistake and be able to fix it with minimum difficulty is better.