FCBD 2008

CaptainClaude · Post by **CaptainClaude** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:58 am

prettysenshi wrote:I suggest we change the theme to running. It's way more broad and can be involved in a range of stories and genres. With water, I think the ideas you can come up for it will be less original.

why would the change in word influence originality at all, eh?

And for that matter, how is "water" any less abstract than "free"?

you're all going completely insane. and not in the clichéd "i'm mad me" way for once.

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:24 am

We might want a more specific theme. It can still be open, but maybe not so open as 'water'. How about "By the waterfront"? Just for example - that gives you beaches and islands and tiki bars and Miami Florida, and volcanos and tidal waves and anything else, but still makes it a bit more cohesive.

Or instead of running, how about "Fleeing"? Running could be anything, but a set of stories where the main character is fleeing something (not even the same something, just fleeing something), is a much more unified theme.

Or instead of "Free" how about "Achieving Liberty"? It's not just lady liberty, but the act of being free FROM something. Oppression, or your parents or from prison or... well, you get the idea.

ShineDog · Post by **ShineDog** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:33 am

I think thats overly restrictive, Look at flight, its fantastic and the theme is open enough to have lots of different material.

Also! i think water is better than fleeing, for the same reason, simply the number of things you can do with that.

TheSuburbanLetdown · Post by **TheSuburbanLetdown** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:03 am

Water.

KWill · Post by **KWill** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:06 am

theSuburbanLetdown wrote:Water.

Considering the relatively little amount of time available to finish all of this, I'd say we stick with "water" and proceed to giving people the details they need to start drawing as soon as possible.

It would probably also be a good idea to dig up some of the advice from the old thread that came after people noticed that their artwork didn't work out too well with the paper it was printed on.

Robin Pierce · Post by **Robin Pierce** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:52 am

Okay let's go with Water - the more open it is the more we can do with it.

End of discussion please.

Further details to follow

edit: Oi Shine what're you still doing at home at this hour, weren't you supposed to be gone like seven hours ago!?

Zwuh · Post by **Zwuh** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:04 pm

Worst theme ever.

Coyotzin · Post by **Coyotzin** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:42 am

Zwuh wrote:Worst theme ever.

I have an idea already

Dotty · Post by **Dotty** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:45 am

Not the worst theme ever, but definitely not the best. I look forward to more details though, so we can get an idea about how something that wide open is going to be cohesive.

That guy · Post by **That guy** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:23 am

Zwuh wrote:Worst theme ever.

Don't always jive with Zwuh, but I gotta concur with the blunt bastich on this one. Water? What's the significance of water? When you see a tome lying on the comic book shelf do you think "Water? Why THAT's something I enjoy reading about! Yes! Water! I want THAT one!"

Water, at best, could be a recurring motif, but there's nothing about water that would constitute a theme.

Themes should be something like "Hope," "Perseverance," "The power of imagination..." not random nouns that artists must tie into whatever story they actually want to write. I'm not sure why we wanted a theme in the first place, it seems a bit superfluous in a booklet meant to showcase whatever best work an artist feels like putting forth, but I just don't see any point at all in forcing people to incorporate a completely meaningless element into their work.

EDIT: Went back and read some more posts...

LibertyCabbage wrote:
perk_daddy wrote:As it's FCBD and all, maybe the theme could be "Free"?
Too abstract.

Abstracts make the best themes. While I'd most prefer no theme at all (just showcase good comics that make the artists and CG as a whole look good), if we feel me NEED a theme, FREE is the best I've heard. Comics about being free, wishing you were free, the kinds of things that make you feel free, make you realize you are free, that set you free - the cost of freedom.

FREE - relates to the context of the book (FCBD), it's a legitimate theme people might want to read about, and it ties in as easily or more easily with the kinds of examples people put forth for 'water' (high seas? Freedom by boat.)

KWill · Post by **KWill** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:47 am

That guy wrote:Water, at best, could be a recurring motif, but there's nothing about water that would constitute a theme.

Theme - a unifying or dominant idea, motif, etc., as in a work of art. (Linky)

Technically speaking, it would be both. It's just not as restrictive as some of the themes you've mentioned.

Themes should be something like "Hope," "Perseverance," "The power of imagination..." not random nouns that artists must tie into whatever story they actually want to write. I'm not sure why we wanted a theme in the first place, it seems a bit superfluous in a booklet meant to showcase whatever best work an artist feels like putting forth, but I just don't see any point at all in forcing people to incorporate a completely meaningless element into their work.

I think you're going at it from the wrong direction. People shouldn't be starting with something and then incorporating "water" into their work, but think of something they can do that features "water".

I think the idea behind the theme was that it would detract from the "comic advertising" that was prevalent and heavily criticised in the last FCBD books CG brought out, and give it something else to stand on.

Why not just start taking submissions and if any REAL themes begin popping up we can design the cover and/or title to reflect that somewhat, but not limit submissions according to a random denominator?

There's two problems I see with that:
1. We'd probably end up rejecting some very good submissions that didn't fit into the prevalent theme.
2. There isn't really all that much time to let a theme develop if this needs to be done by December.

Coyotzin · Post by **Coyotzin** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:56 am

This very same discussion already took place in this very same thread. While I too, consider there are better themes out there (the aforementioned "Flight" being something humankind had been after for centuries), but design by committee loses too much precious time, and people have already stepped up into leadership/responsibility positions for the book. It's time to throw support behind the leadership and use your creativity to make the best thing with what has been decided.

Possible ideas for "Water"

- Origin of life
- Fun at the beach
- Calm and contemplation
- Purification
- Deep mysteries
- Sea voyage
- Rainy days
- Fluidity and adaptability
- River as a metaphor of the path of life
- Sunken cities
- Here There Be Dragons
- The edge of the world
- "Blood is thicker than water"
- Barren, post-apocalyptic worlds (water as treasure)

I'm sure people can think of ways to use any reference to "water" in a story that ties to their own comic. Myself... I'm going to tell one of the legends of Nahast's sea elves.

That guy · Post by **That guy** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:02 am

KWill wrote:Theme - a unifying or dominant idea, motif, etc., as in a work of art. (Linky)

You conveniently skipped the first definition listed, there.

"THEME- a subject of discourse, discussion, meditation, or composition; topic: The need for world peace was the theme of the meeting."

A motif is smaller scale. An object, image, idea which comes up repeatedly - a theme is something more important (the need for world peace, for example). A a legitimate theme in a book is not a random noun. Moby Dick's theme is not WATER... it's dangers of fanaticism, or conquering personal demons, even the nobility and savagery of man... There are a number of THEMES, but in spite of all the high-seas action, "water" is not one of them. A motif, yes. Not a theme.

Semantics really don't matter, the point is: If we pick a theme for the CG FCBD book, it should actually be a real theme, not just a recurring element. Something that MATTERS. Something people might actually want to talk about, read about, spend time thinking about after they've read it. What one topic will all of the varied stories make the reader think about? THAT is the theme.

KWill · Post by **KWill** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:44 am

That guy wrote:You conveniently skipped the first definition listed, there.

I skipped the others too, primarily because the second one was the relevant one. Discussing which definition is better is a battle of semantics and as you said:

Semantics really don't matter

I totally agree.

the point is: If we pick a theme for the CG FCBD book, it should actually be a real theme, not just a recurring element. Something that MATTERS. Something people might actually want to talk about, read about, spend time thinking about after they've read it. What one topic will all of the varied stories make the reader think about? THAT is the theme.

We're at odds as to how to define "theme" and that is largely irrelevant to the discussion. So here is what I read in your post: You want a stronger, more meaningful theme than simply "water". Something more captivating to the reader.

Here I disagree. Having a unified concept that each story revolves around is more restrictive than having a recurring element. I prefer the latter because it is less restrictive. Some people might want to write stories that don't matter, that are simply there for comedic value. That would be a bit harder with that kind of theme. A comic making fun of "conquering personal demons" would be detrimental to the "discuss things that matter" aspect of a stronger theme, and quite frankly, I don't think that's what FCBD should be about.

That guy · Post by **That guy** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:02 am

That's a fair argument against having a theme at all, and I agree. I still fail to see the point or purpose of 'water.' It seems odd and random, bearing no relevance to CG, or to the occasion. 'Free' as I mentioned, seemed at least to lend itself to the event. As Coyotzin said, I suppose I really ought to just throw my support behind those who have opted to lead and just shut up.

Not to be a drip, but I want this to go fluidly, and I'm just afraid we'll appear wet-behind-the-ears for the second year in a row.

Turnsky · Post by **Turnsky** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:58 am

you know, you don't haveta be Nostradamus to realize that this "theme discussion" is gonna go on endlessly.

Each side has made fair arguements for and against, here's what i propose.

we have a set number of themes, we pick the best one, we go with whichever's the most popular, then we can shut up about the themes, and get onto the actual business of making pages.

Robin Pierce · Post by **Robin Pierce** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:45 am

my god. frankly this is what I wanted to avoid.

If there are this many issues with water, I'll talk to the judges tonight and ask them to come up with something they all agree with. But when they do, if we can please stop bickering because at this rate nothing will ever get done.

Ta.

Coyotzin · Post by **Coyotzin** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:46 am

The thing is that having a theme (or motiff or whatever) was already decided a few pages back in this thread. You don't get to question decisions already taken by discussion if you arrive late at the discussion.

The discussion about having a theme or not is OFF the table. The collective talking about it already thought having a theme was a good idea, and that's that.

The arbitrary decision of "water" was thrown on the discussion floor, nobody seriously proposed alternatives with pros and cons, and so "water" was decided upon when the people taking charge began to lay down the law. "Worst theme ever" does not qualify as a serious argument, especially if it does not include any alternative whatsoever.

'Water' is as good a motiff/theme as any other. I would trust the creative minds of this forum CAN come up with something worthwhile even remotely referencing 'water' or any of water's dozens of connotations in many areas.

[AlmightyPyro] · Post by **[AlmightyPyro]** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:28 pm

So when exactly is the Free Comic Book Day again? I really don't want to scan through 9 pages to find it.

Serenagold · Post by **Serenagold** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:38 pm

ok, thats it.

I'm making my comic about free water. This way, no matter what, Im covered.