FCBD 2008

The Neko · Post by **The Neko** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:11 pm

As opposed to worrying about someone's hosting affiliations, why not just pick people who have good taste, editorial skills, and ability to make tough decisions without worrying about the social consequences?

No matter WHO you pick, people are going to find some fault with them, either personally or politically. You might as well just make sure they have good sense.

CJBurgandy · Post by **CJBurgandy** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:16 pm

I vote War because he hates everyone's art and is most likely to pick out what sucks the least. Plus the theme might turn into "Big Boobs."

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:50 pm

War and The Neko have shown good taste in what's professional and high quality, and neither seem to have any care if people disagree with their decisions. They'd make decent Editors.

How will this be funded? Last year we had to raise half the money, and Keenspot Entertainment paid the other half. If they offer us that deal again (which was very kind of them), then we will have to come up with some cash.

Spqrblues · Post by **Spqrblues** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:17 pm

I recall that one complaint from comics shop owners (or at least the ones most vocal on the internet) was that the 2007 sampler cost VERY much more than other samplers, and the retailers weren't convinced it was of any benefit to them to spend that much more for something they already doubted would bring increased traffic to their retail aisles. Is there any way to bring down the cost for the comics shops, as a way of encouraging them to support webcomics and provide something for their customers who might be interested in both print and online?

Can the cover of the 2008 sampler pander outright to the comic shops to gain their support for the idea that supporting comics reading online leads to more people reading offline too? A nice big blurb such as "Read Webcomics Online & Support Print Comics in Your Local Comic Shop" or some such palaver...?

(Asks the person who only hosts her archives on CG now...

)

Perk_daddy · Post by **Perk_daddy** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:05 pm

There's no need to get outside guys like Websnark. We're not that incompetent, really. I second the Neko as a judge and also nominate Shishio (neither of which I know personally nor internet-ally, but seem to have sound judgment as to what makes a good comic).

I'm also going to decry the idea of a continuing story or crossover. A good short story can be done in five pages. Give us a common theme and let us do our thing and let it speak for itself.

If we're feeling really ambitious, also include a url in the FCBD edition that goes to a webpage where they can see the rest of the entries, I dunno.

Tellurider · Post by **Tellurider** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:32 pm

perk_daddy wrote: If we're feeling really ambitious, also include a url in the FCBD edition that goes to a webpage where they can see the rest of the entries, I dunno.

I second this idea. We're webcomics, why don't we send out a quality-controlled sampler, then have more open submission for an internet version? We could have one single website with all the entries for FCBD so that more people could participate and sort of do the sampler thing, but only actually print the cream of the crop. Then we could just have a page that says "Like what you see? Check out more FCBD shorts from Comic Genesis at [insert site]!"

It shouldn't take too long to upload some entries then put links on the main page by author or comic for browsability. People who submit could just make a little banner and then all we'd have to do is list them on the page. Plus, if it worked well, we could just use the same site next year.

I mean, we'd still have to do quality control and limit submissions because no one wants to scroll through 100 entries, and since it's for FCBD it would really have to be the same sort of 5 page shorts, not just a link to a comic. But we would have more time to get it together because the site would go active on the day the book was released, so it shouldn't be like a huge amount of extra work or something.

Zwuh · Post by **Zwuh** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:35 pm

I'll tell all of you who is good and who isn't.

Even if I'm not a judge.

Dragonkingdoms · Post by **Dragonkingdoms** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:19 pm

War wrote:You don't want a cross section of CG.

Y'know what'd make a good cross section of CG? Taking all the WOMB comics on any day of the year and shoving them into a printed book. Hey, we've got a sampler with minimal effort all round, and the perfect cross section of CG!

Even I fear the WOMB. There's even a blog floating around that reviewed the WOMB, and some of its examples are gruesome. The best one was a blank page.

And yeah, we could stand to make our sampler better this year. I never got to see it, either.

If we don't make the sampler better, people will continue to believe that CG is a place that only the worst webcomics reside (not that mine would be much of a counterexample, but I digress), and that we're going under, going from the level of advertising they see in the sampler.

And FCBD was in May, right? My visits actually dropped the week after that- and I wasn't in the book. So, I think the impact was CG-wide.

EDIT: Checked again. Visits did drop, but not the week after the sampler. That week, they made a slight increase, and the week after that was when we were having server problems. I was just remembering it wrong.

Turnsky · Post by **Turnsky** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:08 am

Dragonkingdoms wrote:
And FCBD was in May, right? My visits actually dropped the week after that- and I wasn't in the book. So, I think the impact was CG-wide.

actually, i was in the book and my hits weren't impacted notably(either detrimental or otherwise), so i don't think the book was "at fault" in your case.

Edit: Actually, come to think of it, the June/July period of this year was when the server keeled over. So really it's neither here nor there, is it?

The Neko · Post by **The Neko** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:46 am

The book wouldn't cause a drop. But rather, the book should have caused an upswing in the hits of the people who had pieces in it. Really, it's a missed opportunity.

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:53 am

I actually did have an upswing. But I have a very small readership and the extra 20 or so viewers I got the following few days represented a 10% increase which is the only reason it was noteable. Given thousands of copies went out, yeah. It wasn't a big advertising boon.

Turnsky · Post by **Turnsky** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:43 am

The Neko wrote:The book wouldn't cause a drop. But rather, the book should have caused an upswing in the hits of the people who had pieces in it. Really, it's a missed opportunity.

true, my hits are usually on a consistent upswing though, very slight, however. I don't notice in any case.

Post by **Kisai** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:53 am

Dragonkingdoms wrote:
War wrote:You don't want a cross section of CG.

Y'know what'd make a good cross section of CG? Taking all the WOMB comics on any day of the year and shoving them into a printed book. Hey, we've got a sampler with minimal effort all round, and the perfect cross section of CG!
Even I fear the WOMB. There's even a blog floating around that reviewed the WOMB, and some of its examples are gruesome. The best one was a blank page.

And yeah, we could stand to make our sampler better this year. I never got to see it, either.

If we don't make the sampler better, people will continue to believe that CG is a place that only the worst webcomics reside (not that mine would be much of a counterexample, but I digress), and that we're going under, going from the level of advertising they see in the sampler.

And FCBD was in May, right? My visits actually dropped the week after that- and I wasn't in the book. So, I think the impact was CG-wide.

EDIT: Checked again. Visits did drop, but not the week after the sampler. That week, they made a slight increase, and the week after that was when we were having server problems. I was just remembering it wrong.

It's kinda funny, the entire reason the signup script for CG hasn't changed... at all in the last two years, and nobody monitors it, is because it happens to be it's own IQ hurdle or something. If you can't figure out how to signup for CG (which probably excludes a lot that don't speak english) and you can't figure out how to upload an image, than you don't deserve a comic site, because it means you can't follow instructions and you probably didn't read the terms and conditions.

Seriously, the only reason nothing gets voted out in the signup stage is because NOBODY is watching it. Infact, I should let something aweful manage it, they like to poke through it. Here's the universal delete key 'ARGHGGGGGGHHH'

(That last paragraph brought to you by going to sleep in 5 minutes)

Anyway, if people are going to have a great big friggen issue over this, then I'm going to unilaterally assign roles like it's done in elementary school.

I nominate my self to judge, the_neko to veto, and War to terminate
I nominate Robin to organize the <strike>cats</strike> people and Corland to finalize the layouts
I nominate rkolter to collect the funds

...

Now that I scared everyone for a moment by acting like the teacher, please stop and think about it. This is a REAL publishing deal, not a novice mishymash photocopied at the local copyshop. The average comic is between 32 pages and 120. The KEENSPOT 2005 was 118 pages, Colour comic's for 20$-30$ of that many pages, and the KeenSPOT 2005 was printed on low grade paper. How can we reduce costs?
Either we cut the pages in half (how many were in the last one?), or we pay more to subsize it.(is this even possible?)

Anyone pickup any of the other FCBD stuff out there to see how many pages were in those?

And seriously I'm not feeling up to being in a juding or leading position for any more projects. I already dropped -ALL- my projects I had been a part of (again) because of lack of communication.

The only thing this thread has accomplished so far is establishing that we want to do the FCBD, but nothing else. There are some suggestions for Anthology or sampler, or one master story with sub stories. etc

Here's my idea, so far.

Write one master story, when we figure out our page limit, we divide up the pages. Half tell one perspective of the story(one or two characters,) the other half the tell the other perspective. To make things interesting, let's put 'side A' with one cover that is read forwards, and 'side B' that reads forward, with the final two pages a two-page spread. This gives the option of giving each artist a scenario like this:
"character A has to accomplish this, this and this, and your part ends with this action" "Character B will accompish this and this, and will end with this action"

The more pages more sub-stories can be written so it's not episodic in nature, but flows smoothly as the art will allow it to the next chapter. Though I think the problem is that the more money collected, the more pages are possible. Therefore unless there is an absolute commitment from some people from the start for X many pages, I'm not sure we can say each artist does 4 or 8 pages or anything.

I've never published anything, so I'd rather someone who knows about publishing explain this process.

And for newbies to the FCBD, draw good, and you stand a chance.

Robin Pierce · Post by **Robin Pierce** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:09 am

If you want me to do it - and cort's cool with it- I accept.

But:

I still don't think one overreaching comic is a good idea because it relies on having a REALLY strong set of writers. Also, it's not fair to the people who have comics and split responsibilities with writers :S That's why the short story to a theme would have worked well, and why I'd personally like to push that idea. Coming up with a theme is a whole nother issue though.

Perk_daddy · Post by **Perk_daddy** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:07 am

Kisai wrote:Write one master story, when we figure out our page limit, we divide up the pages. Half tell one perspective of the story(one or two characters,) the other half the tell the other perspective. To make things interesting, let's put 'side A' with one cover that is read forwards, and 'side B' that reads forward, with the final two pages a two-page spread. This gives the option of giving each artist a scenario like this:
"character A has to accomplish this, this and this, and your part ends with this action" "Character B will accompish this and this, and will end with this action"

The FCBD book should be an accurate representation of what people should find at CG. What you're describing is just a bunch of people collaborating on a story. Letting everyone tell their own short stories that represent the flavor of their own individual comics, while sticking with a central theme, is not only a more accurate representation of what CG is about, but gives more people a better shot at getting in. People aren't chosen beforehand, they submit their best work and let it speak for itself. This way is also much easier to manage, as the finished works are already submitted.

The Neko · Post by **The Neko** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:11 am

pierce studios wrote:Coming up with a theme is a whole nother issue though.

Water. There. Done.

KWill · Post by **KWill** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:20 am

The Neko wrote:
pierce studios wrote:Coming up with a theme is a whole nother issue though.
Water. There. Done.

Don't you think that might be a bit too vague? Now I am a newbie and I don't know how much attention this'll get, but I did some thinking on this.

I'd suggest "This is the worst day ever" as a unifying theme. It's something that could easily be split into seperate stories and lends itself well to both comical and more serious plots.

War · Post by **War** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:23 am

perk_daddy wrote:The FCBD book should be an accurate representation of what people should find at CG.

Like I said, put all the WOMB comics in a sampler. Bam, you're done.

Reinder · Post by **Reinder** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:38 am

I'm a bit late to the party, but I'm interested in working as a judge/editor. Same underlying reason as War except I don't hate everything.

Several years of zine-editing/submission-rejecting experience. Ties with the community but none so tight that I wouldn't tell a popular member that their submission isn't up to scratch.

The Neko · Post by **The Neko** » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:44 am

KWill wrote:
The Neko wrote:
pierce studios wrote:Coming up with a theme is a whole nother issue though.
Water. There. Done.
Don't you think that might be a bit too vague? Now I am a newbie and I don't know how much attention this'll get, but I did some thinking on this.

I'd suggest "This is the worst day ever" as a unifying theme. It's something that could easily be split into seperate stories and lends itself well to both comical and more serious plots.

"Flight", etc. is vague, but it allows for more freedom. That way you have different kinds of stories, but at the same time you get some kind of theme throughout them. The more specific, the more restrictive the format becomes.