FCBD 2008

Shishio · Post by **Shishio** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:05 am

Komiyan wrote:I liked Robin's idea of making the editor someone unconnected with CG, so they can't be accused of letting their friends in.

A valid point, but can such a person/people (with good taste) be found?

Komiyan wrote:This may net me another angry PM about how its 'not my right' to talk about cgen, but that was really the best idea.

GO BACK TO KEENSPOT, JEZABEL!

ShineDog · Post by **ShineDog** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:10 am

I shall lead you!

Komiyan · Post by **Komiyan** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:11 am

That's me told!

Robin Pierce · Post by **Robin Pierce** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:11 am

that followed by your signiture made it really really funny, shiney.

Perk_daddy · Post by **Perk_daddy** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:12 am

pierce studios wrote: a contest. everyone who feels the need can submit a five page short story to a theme that is established in the first place. This is then voted on by a committee of the higher ups - whether that be admins + someone from keenspot, or people who are doing the work for the book, or a voting, or whatever. (Again, I don't like the idea of a voting because there are a lot of personal politics going on there. If there was a vote, i'd want it to be by people who don't know anything about any of us, to eliminate the bias).

I think a contest would be the fairest way to decide who gets in the book, while at the same time ensuring that it comes out as a quality product. A CG-wide contest might be a sure nightmare to regulate, but it could also be a chance to unite us all in a common effort to really show what we can do.

Komiyan · Post by **Komiyan** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:21 am

That doesn't get rid of the bias, though. People will always vote for such and such cause they're so nice and they're a really good friend! And that really isn't helpful.

Robin Pierce · Post by **Robin Pierce** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:25 am

I think yes on the contest, with submissions from ALL cg members - not just the forum ones. A newsbox add on CG - and possibly keenspot - might do it. CG members shouldn't be the ones voting though. I would suggest a committee.

Ie:
1 Admin from Comicgenesis
1 Admin from Keenspot
3 other. or something. I dunno.

LibertyCabbage · Post by **LibertyCabbage** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:54 am

Maybe a few Spotters could be judges? I mean, they should be objective and qualified enough. Although, it seems kinda demeaning to assume that the CG community isn't mature enough to choose how it represents itself. Still, it's hard to come up with a method that's truly fair and judges people solely by the merits of their work.

Turnsky · Post by **Turnsky** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:55 am

pierce studios wrote:I think yes on the contest, with submissions from ALL cg members - not just the forum ones. A newsbox add on CG - and possibly keenspot - might do it. CG members shouldn't be the ones voting though. I would suggest a committee.

Ie:
1 Admin from Comicgenesis
1 Admin from Keenspot
3 other. or something. I dunno.

see? this makes perfect sense. it's the one thing that we've been missing, quality control.

i do like the running theme idea, too, whilst not the most original idea, it's a damn sight more effective at selling what numerous people within a community can do outside their comic.

It might even make some *gasp* go outside of their normal style.

Komiyan · Post by **Komiyan** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:15 am

LibertyCabbage wrote:Maybe a few Spotters could be judges? I mean, they should be objective and qualified enough. Although, it seems kinda demeaning to assume that the CG community isn't mature enough to choose how it represents itself. Still, it's hard to come up with a method that's truly fair and judges people solely by the merits of their work.

I think that's a bit much to assume, just having a comic on Spot doesn't make you qualified for anything much.

War · Post by **War** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:22 am

LibertyCabbage wrote:Maybe a few Spotters could be judges? I mean, they should be objective and qualified enough.

Hahahaha, no. Have you even looked at keenspot lately?

Although, it seems kinda demeaning to assume that the CG community isn't mature enough to choose how it represents itself.

Unfortunately it is true though.

Rickford · Post by **Rickford** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:34 am

I'm generally in agreement with Robin. Have some non-biased entry voting, to ensure we get some good representation. I'd say the committee in charge of that doesn't have to be completely disconnected from CG, just people that're mature enough to put aside personal connections and vote based on the actual entry requirements. I think a lot of the mods here are capable enough.

I'm also happy with there being a theme. Kinda unites the book a little more than having loose bumf everywhere. Just so long as everything isn't pre-scripted and rigid. Nothing worse could be done than completely strangling an artist's creative imput.

For funding, it can't hurt to have space saved on a few pages for smaller advertisements either.

Post by **Kisai** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:41 am

Quality control yes.

Judges ... that would still be playing favourites since the CG admin's, GTC, and core forum moderators are significantly biased that I wouldn't want to let anyone weilding 'power' on CG to be a judge. This would also get rid of any accusations of playing favourite or voting along party lines *nudge*

Shishio · Post by **Shishio** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:50 am

Kisai wrote:Judges ... that would still be playing favourites since the CG admin's, GTC, and core forum moderators are significantly biased that I wouldn't want to let anyone weilding 'power' on CG to be a judge. This would also get rid of any accusations of playing favourite or voting along party lines *nudge*

Who would you give the responsibility to then?

LibertyCabbage · Post by **LibertyCabbage** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:51 am

Komiyan wrote:
LibertyCabbage wrote:Maybe a few Spotters could be judges? I mean, they should be objective and qualified enough. Although, it seems kinda demeaning to assume that the CG community isn't mature enough to choose how it represents itself. Still, it's hard to come up with a method that's truly fair and judges people solely by the merits of their work.
I think that's a bit much to assume, just having a comic on Spot doesn't make you qualified for anything much.

I agree, but in this case superficiality might be more reasonable than a purely subjective approach to considering whose opinions are more valid than everyone else's.

Then again, the potential for bias and favoritism doesn't bother me much, and I can see it as sort of a "necessary evil". People aren't perfect, and we shouldn't try to be, and to try to make entirely rational judgments without taking emotional connections into consideration is a flawed approach. So what if someone picks their buddy's comic over another one that's slightly better? It's how reality operates, and people can bitch about it all they want but there's nothing they can really do besides trying harder the next time.

LibertyCabbage · Post by **LibertyCabbage** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:55 am

War wrote:
LibertyCabbage wrote:Maybe a few Spotters could be judges? I mean, they should be objective and qualified enough.
Hahahaha, no. Have you even looked at keenspot lately?

Oh, believe me, I'm no fan of Keenspot any further than for the free services it provides. But, there's a clear class system operating here and while generally this is looked upon negatively it may have some advantages.

Shishio · Post by **Shishio** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:57 am

LibertyCabbage wrote:I agree, but in this case superficiality might be more reasonable than a purely subjective approach to considering whose opinions are more valid than everyone else's.

I disagree. I've already named three people that would make good judges/editors. Granted, they're members of the community, but I think it would be better to give the position to people who would be passionate about making a quality book than people who may not care as much.

LibertyCabbage wrote:Then again, the potential for bias and favoritism doesn't bother me much, and I can see it as sort of a "necessary evil". People aren't perfect, and we shouldn't try to be, and to try to make entirely rational judgments without taking emotional connections into consideration is a flawed approach. So what if someone picks their buddy's comic over another one that's slightly better? It's how reality operates, and people can bitch about it all they want but there's nothing they can really do besides trying harder the next time.

I can't believe you said this.

Robin Pierce · Post by **Robin Pierce** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:08 am

LibertyCabbage wrote:So what if someone picks their buddy's comic over another one that's slightly better?

Yeah see that right there was the problem with last year's book and that right there is a very large part of why we got negative review after negative review.

Komiyan · Post by **Komiyan** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:23 am

LibertyCabbage wrote: Then again, the potential for bias and favoritism doesn't bother me much, and I can see it as sort of a "necessary evil". People aren't perfect, and we shouldn't try to be, and to try to make entirely rational judgments without taking emotional connections into consideration is a flawed approach. So what if someone picks their buddy's comic over another one that's slightly better? It's how reality operates, and people can bitch about it all they want but there's nothing they can really do besides trying harder the next time.

No, see, there's the option to do better this time, and you can't just shrug and go 'Ah well, it'll be shit either way'.

Post by **Kisai** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:28 am

LibertyCabbage wrote: So what if someone picks their buddy's comic over another one that's slightly better? It's how reality operates, and people can bitch about it all they want but there's nothing they can really do besides trying harder the next time.

The problem with that thinking is this is the power structure of CG:

Advertisers
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Keenspot FabFour
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Kisai-Kelly-Mercury_Hat (Admins)
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GTC/Moderators
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Forum people
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Non-forum people
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Readers

Effectively, someone who reads the comics, may also be a forumer with no art talent but thinks they know art. Also the art quality from the admins is all over the place from terrible to good. Likewise for the moderators

Just because people have those positions does not mean they necessarily know what it takes to draw good art. I read half the "drawing on the right side of the brain" book and suddenly it clicked as to why I was drawing poorly. I still draw not that good without a reference, but it makes sense how much time goes into art.

I wouldn't want to judge things because I've being doing this too long and certain art styles bug me, even though they can be really pretty done in CG. I'd rather people be picked who are artists (comic or not) across the board, with between 1/3rd and 1/2 from the community, and the rest be from those that are artists, but have no special interest in CG.