What wouldn't you shy away from?

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Sat May 19, 2007 5:49 pm

So how far would you hypothetically push ratings in your comics, presuming that you had artistic licence? Adult themes? Hinted nudity? Frontal nudity? Sex scenes? Hard core? How much violence? What is it that you wouldn't draw in any comic you make, based on your personal shyness/sense of morality?

834n · Post by **834n** » Sat May 19, 2007 5:52 pm

Nothing against putting in lots of gore, but I think I'd shy away from full nudity. Partial nudity and implied sex scenes sure, but I wouldn't feel comfortable drawing more than that.

Nanda · Post by **Nanda** » Sat May 19, 2007 6:11 pm

There's not much I'd shy away from, if the story called for it. The characters in Ugly Girl seem to be A-sexual, though...

Prettysenshi · Post by **Prettysenshi** » Sat May 19, 2007 6:17 pm

Several things I'd never do.

--total nudity. upper torso only and buttshots.
--graphic sex
--blatant racism/anti-religion

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Sat May 19, 2007 7:07 pm

Although I prefer to keep my ratings a little lower than "M", I've often told myself that I would do whatever is required by the story. However, since then, I've discovered I prefer the challenge of not using them - of writing horror without gore, strong emotion without swear words, violence without gratuity and romance without nudity.

Instead I would use them where they're most powerful: nudity to underscore humiliation and powerlessness, gore to underscore a truly evil and uncompromising villain, and swear words... Well, actually I've softened my stance on those but they do still tend to show up when things are really bad rather than when someone stubs his toe. The careful use of them makes them more powerful.

In many ways, all those things - gore, nudity and so on - are like l33t speak in comics. They're an easier path which most often results in a poorer, less subtle creative work. It's the difference between a true horror movie and what I call "splatter". The former is subtle, frightening and often has very little blood. The latter is usually just the blood.*

- Joel Fagin

* Although the two genres have successfully merged of late in movies like Saw.

Siabur · Post by **Siabur** » Sat May 19, 2007 7:17 pm

It depends on the comic. Sitcom pretty much is pg. Implied is okay, use the imagination of what they may be doing. I've got the comic with the blatent sex going on, but lot's of closed doors and the thin walls.

Zehnn on the other hand is violent. Never had a problem with violence, welcome to American standards. Graphic violent murders, okay, show naked people doing the deed, go to hell. There was alot of nudity in it, but was modified after I realized I couldn't draw women that well at the time, now would be different.

For me it depends on the story, does it help it? Or is it just there?

Warren · Post by **Warren** » Sat May 19, 2007 7:24 pm

Hmmm... I've covered spouseacide, masturbation, peeping tomism, and religion.

So I guess I don't shy away from much (except I seldom swear in the comics. Too easy.)

Dutch! · Post by **Dutch!** » Sat May 19, 2007 7:48 pm

Basically, if it's not going to be appropriate to the strip, then I'm not going to do it. That said, if it fits in the strip and can be done in a way that is suitable to the content and the rating restriction I've put on myself, then I'll think about it.

I've focused on death, romance (although Cody having a crush on his teacher might not be quite in the same league as others here), had a little stab at religion, and the kids have appeared in the altogether (although in the bath, and the one time he wasn't, his hat came in very useful.

As long as it's fitting and will benefit the story and the development of the characters, then I'll think about using it. If, on the other hand, I don't think it would be fair on the characters to put them through certain situations, then it has no place in the strip.

Garneta · Post by **Garneta** » Sat May 19, 2007 7:59 pm

I use whatever I think the story needs. I don't think I'll go as far as actually graphically showing any sex scenes if and when they happen, though.

Dutch! · Post by **Dutch!** » Sat May 19, 2007 8:27 pm

Actually... I was going to mention also that I do my best not to have silly violence and stuff to make a point, or even to have it present in the strip at all wherever possible.

But that wouldn't be correct now. I'm just starting a storyline focusing on the First World War. The kids might actually get shot at...

Bad language for no reason though... nah. No need for me to be doing that.

VinnieD · Post by **VinnieD** » Sat May 19, 2007 9:50 pm

Well since we can set our own ratings, I'm already at the limits of what I will do in my comic.

At least as far as AntiBunny goes, characters get beaten up, shot, or stabbed, but that's about it. No gore.

When it comes to Nudity there's only a few humans, bunnies are fur covered so if a situation calls for them not to wear clothes it doesn't really matter, as they've got in built fur coats anyway.

There's no real reason for sexual content in my comic.

So basicly with this comic I'm already doing the limits of what I would do to it. I set the ratings according to what I'd be putting in the comic, rather than limit the comic according to the rating.

In another comic I'd do the same. I have no problems drawing nudity, but I have a hard time believing it's necessary for the advancement of the story. Sex similarly could be a part of the story, but I don't see why it would need to be graphic.

Violence is just what the story calls for. If I'm doing something that's action centric, then I have no qualms with a character chopping off arms or cutting characters in half.

So in short, my limits are what the story calls for.

Geekblather · Post by **Geekblather** » Sat May 19, 2007 10:35 pm

I don't really have any limits for what I will and won't draw. So far, the language is probably pg-13 to R-rated anyway (some of my characters have foul mouths) and there are a lot of fairly heavy issues, so far as discrimination, violence, abuse, and sex are concerned.
Like most people have said, it has to do with what the story calls for. But, there's really not anything that I shy away from drawing or writing.

Jackhass · Post by **Jackhass** » Sat May 19, 2007 10:48 pm

In my current comic? Nothing worse than G/light PG. I intentionally keep this one clean.

If I were to do something more graphic though, I'd probably keep the titillation to a PG13 type level...nothing explicit. My grandma might read it! Besides, I'd rather get readers through non exploitative means.

I might do R rated langauge and whatnot in a comic sometime...but probably only in a serious story where it was kind of unavoidable...not just as fanservice.

834n · Post by **834n** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:02 pm

On swearing I find it's fitting to have some characters do it a lot, and others not to. Of course, the disadvantage, as Joel pointed out, is that using it too often does take away from any impact.

But then, a few of my characters just swear a lot. I've got a guy that hasn't shown up yet who can't seem to go a sentence without profanity. And in real life a lot of people are like that. Kinda sad when someone uses "fuckin'" for every adjective :P

TRI · Post by **TRI** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:07 pm

Hmm. Rape and torture. Both popular dramatic devices but I wouldn't feel at all comfortable going there on account of . . . lets call it the realities the situation: too easy to trivialize or sensationalize the subject.

Ridiculous unrealistic graphic violence. You know: people being split in half, organs being ripped out, people being turned into charred skeletons. If I was going to do violence I'd have to do it at least somewhat realistically.

Geekblather · Post by **Geekblather** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:37 pm

I think a big part of dealing with sticky subjects, like the kind that people might shy away from, is in how it's handled. If violence and horrible things happen, it's only fair to include the consequences that go along with them, or to provide some kind of balance in storytelling, so that you don't trivialize or sensationalize or any-other-kind-of-ize issues that might be very personal and very touching to someone else.

Bustertheclown · Post by **Bustertheclown** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:40 pm

I've discovered that it's a just as much a challenge to get rid of your self-censorship completely as it is to stay reader-friendly. In recent years, I've actually tried very hard to do things that disturb my own sensibilities, and push myself beyond a standard MA or 14 rating, so to speak. It's hard as hell to get into the mindset it takes to get the most disturbing things down on paper, and even harder to show it off once you've drawn it. However, that sort of tap into one's artistic id is very intriguing to me, because once those boundaries are broken, real confrontation with the audience can begin. I think that's a good thing on many levels, because art is so often about confronting the audience with things that are not so friendly. I guess it comes down to judging when it's warranted, and when it's gratuitous, thus making it merely pornographic. Still, on a personal creative level, I'd rather risk being known as an interesting pornographer than a friendly, if boring and inconsequential storyteller, so I'm still trying to get to that raw and uncomfortable place as a creator.

I just feel like there aren't enough cartoonists out there who are able to brave the turbulent waters of showing more hardcore themes, without jumping completely off the deep end, into the cesspool of unnecessary sex and violence. It's a thin line, and it's one crucial line that shows just how stunted the maturity level is in comics as an artistic media. After all, what generally makes people uncomfortable to see in comics is quite accepted in other types of art, like film, theatre, and literature. I'm willing to try to do my part to grow comics up right along with the other arts.

I dunno. I think I'm babbling.

TRI · Post by **TRI** » Sun May 20, 2007 12:45 am

geekblather wrote:I think a big part of dealing with sticky subjects, like the kind that people might shy away from, is in how it's handled. If violence and horrible things happen, it's only fair to include the consequences that go along with them, or to provide some kind of balance in storytelling, so that you don't trivialize or sensationalize or any-other-kind-of-ize issues that might be very personal and very touching to someone else.

Very true, but I don't consider myself a good enough writer for that.

And there are some personal issues there as well--even if I did think I could do the subject well those would probably keep me from trying--but I'd rather not try and explain that here.

VinnieD · Post by **VinnieD** » Sun May 20, 2007 1:37 am

On the case of rape. You can imply it, and have it employed as a plot device, even discussed without showing it. But it should be something you're careful with.

It's powerful but it's something you only get to use once. Do it twice and you run the risk of being identified for its overuse.

(kind of like Frank Miller and prostitutes.)

Jops · Post by **Jops** » Sun May 20, 2007 3:53 am

For violence and swearing, i'll just try not to have them unnecessarily gratuitous. However, if a scene calls for it, i don't mind blood end gore splatted all over the panel or have a char saying loud and clear the F-word.

When it comes to nudity and sex, it's the same for the most part, but I draw the line on not showing reproductory organs.