Art for criticisms sake! Er, wait, I mean...

Kitsune76 · Post by **Kitsune76** » Wed Oct 25, 2000 12:05 am

Since I'm going away this weekend (don't worry, the comic will update regularly), I thought it a good time to let you rip into my artistic style.So, here's a thread, please tell me what you think, and I'll bear all comments in mind, cos I can only get better from it.Kitsune------------------
<A HREF="http://kitsune76.keenspace.com//" TARGET=_blank>C.Ulture Shocked</A> It's British.But not in a good way...

Damonk13 · Post by **Damonk13** » Wed Oct 25, 2000 4:17 am

what do we think of the thread, or what do we think of your art, or what do we think of art, or what do we think generally, or what...? <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">------------------
"i wish i could think of a witty quote to put here"
--damonk13
<A HREF="http://framed.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>Framed! The Comic!</A>
(now with extra Riboflavin!)

TheBlackCupid · Post by **TheBlackCupid** » Wed Oct 25, 2000 4:43 am

I dunno... I'm, like, sorta flip flopping. There are some panels where I'm like, "blech," and I have to read three or four times to follow a scene. Yeah, you have a detail problem, things don't always look like what they're supposed to look like. I mean, that's the big deal, if you're looking for criticism. I am worried that the characters who aren't immediately recognizable, like Fridge Monster or Grinning Skull, aren't going to be easy to tell apart. And it also just limits you story-telling ability, not being able to show complex body language and whatnot. But there are also times I really get into the whole unique style of it-I mean, nobody draws people in quite the same way you do, all funky long and thin like that, and in a field glutted with anime-slaves, that is such a breath of fresh air. And the camera angles-oh, those are sweet. I'm really surprised with your limited detail ability how you have done such a good job switching angles. That's the best part about the art, that it definitely has storytelling behind it. This, I believe, is why the strip doesn't go near descending into "Keenspace crappy" art; it's just too... alive, somehow. For some reason, I'm getting into Caroline's world, and I don't feel like the art is holding me back. That's a good sign.Does anybody with anything intelligent to say wanna take the mike?------------------
The lightning can't hurt you... but the thunder will.

Damonk13 · Post by **Damonk13** » Wed Oct 25, 2000 7:58 am

well, if you're going to be all serious-like, i'll bow to the peer pressure and add my two-cents...i agree with a lot of what TBC says... the complex body-language is something you will need to develop, but i have a feeling that, drawing this strip daily, it will come soon enough. however, i felt that your fridge monster was pretty good, and grinning skull worked for me, regardless of their lack of complex body language ... my biggest criticism is how sometimes one of your characters, cut off by a word balloon or the like, is drawn with both ends out of whack (e.g., the first panel of Oct. 26). This, too, I imagine can and will be easily and swiftly rectified, tho...and yes, your "camera" angles are INDEED quite impressive, and not something you see being used enough in a lot of other strips that are out there! very advanced stuff, that! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.g ... ditionally, you are not afraid to use different perspective shots (e.g., side view, 3/4 view, full frontal, etc.), which is another sign of artistic maturity lacking in other webcomics out there...and i agree with the anime thing, too -- as 'wonderful' a style it is, it has become far too commonplace a look, and to see your unique approach is very refreshing, to say the least!all in all, you definitely *ARE* way better than much of the stuff that's out there, and you have a lot more potential, too! Some strips might have decent to killer art, but it means nothing when the cartoonist can't figure out how to plot out a storyline, much less know how to tell a joke.Judging from what you've given us so far, you can already do this; i really think that your minor art 'flaws' are ones that can EASILY be rectified with a bit of live-observational sketching, and so i wouldn't be abandonning the drawing board anytime soon, if i were you......it took me years of drawing comic strips just to get to my uber-simplistic (and fairly unique, i hope?) drawing style; i did everything from crappy, to crappy and complex, to not-so-crappy and super-complex, to pretty okay and incredibly complex... until i realized that i didn't have to be perfect to still make a decent strip. So now i have what i have, taking advantage of knowing my limits as well as my skills, and working comfortably happy within their bounds.Just keep drawing, and you'll soon grow comfortable and confident with your own constantly evolving, uniquely Kitsune-ish art style. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">I'm rooting for you, Selena!(GEEZ! This was a loooong post; i shouldn't be allowed into forums when i just finished writing grad essays... i get wayyy to verbose!) <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/redface.gif">------------------
"i wish i could think of a witty quote to put here"
--damonk13
<A HREF="http://framed.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>Framed! The Comic!</A>
(now with extra Riboflavin!)

Damonk13 · Post by **Damonk13** » Wed Oct 25, 2000 8:02 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by damonk13:
 i get wayyy to verbose![/i]) <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/redface.gif">
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...not to mention i forget how to spell! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">------------------
"i wish i could think of a witty quote to put here"
--damonk13
<A HREF="http://framed.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>Framed! The Comic!</A>
(now with extra Riboflavin!)

Scruffy the Vampire Layer · Thu Oct 26, 2000 12:31 am

I already gave you my views, didn't I? (Hey, it was *sooooooo* long ago if ya remember <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> ).------------------
Scruffy~xx
-------------------------
I'm Scruffy, the Vampire Layer, and you are?

Maboo · Post by **Maboo** » Thu Oct 26, 2000 3:16 am

I like the art, it has a charm and naivete of its own, even though sometimes it can be hard to tell what's what and who's who, but on the whole, it's quite nifty! The strips look great.Now, if only I could make my drawings LOOK as good as you make yours look.... but I think I'm getting there.Mab.
------------------
<A HREF="http://blottostreet.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Blotto Street</A> - A very British strip about university life

MrIrony · Post by **MrIrony** » Thu Oct 26, 2000 8:39 am

Well, the above statements pretty much sum up what I had to say! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">And as has been said, your style will evolve as the days pass, since this is a daily strip. I love your style of humour! It really makes this strip stand out from the rest, which is what I like a lot. Plus, you show us things from the British point of view, which is nice, too.Oh, and about the skull/me-thinking-it-was-a-bunny thing... I think that only happened because of my tendency to look at things differently. The art did confuse me a little, and I agree that your characters are sometimes very tall and a little lanky. Of course, it dosen't make it any harder to follow the story, but what is a little awkward is the text bubble placement. Hmmmm, now I'm just echoing what others have already said...Oh! I know I should probably post this in the slogan thread, but I think a good theme song for Caroline would be "I'm Afraid of Americans" by David Bowie. Ok, I don't actually have any ideas for slogans, but if I do, I'll post them in the right thread. Promise!

EteRock · Post by **EteRock** » Fri Oct 27, 2000 2:10 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by damonk13:
and yes, your "camera" angles are INDEED quite impressive, and not something you see being used enough in a lot of other strips that are out there! very advanced stuff, that! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.g ... ditionally, you are not afraid to use different perspective shots (e.g., side view, 3/4 view, full frontal, etc.), which is another sign of artistic maturity lacking in other webcomics out there...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I just have one quick comment to make on this, different camera angles and perspective shot are nice but not necessarily needed all the time. For actions strips they fit, however for dialogue strips different camera angles can ruin the flow of said strip------------------
Hell's fool.<A HREF="http://smapdi.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Smapdi</A>I do not accept this world. To it I shall always say "No".

BJ · Post by BJ » Mon Oct 30, 2000 5:42 am

Hmph. Well, as a 12-year "anime slave" cartoonist, I'll add my opinion... <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">I like the art, and I believe that practise and use of colour can both help the "can't-differentiate-the-characters" problem. I can gather who's saying what by the dialogue, and sometimes I have to look twice, but overall your storytelling ability is better than most, so I don't have that great a problem.Did that make sense?The only thing that I'd actually call a problem is the placement of the dialogue balloons (how they overlap the figures from time to time). I always try to bury the balloon behind the characters (this is a vanity of mine; it doesn't have to be yours as well), making the figure the most important item in the panel. I'd say leave some space at the top of the panel or to the side of the figures for dialogue.And keep drawing!!!------------------
My God<A HREF="http://www.jobeth.net" TARGET=_blank>--</A>It's full of stars!

BJ · Post by BJ » Mon Oct 30, 2000 5:53 am

Oh yeah. Body language. Watch people around you as they move and gesture. Watch TV with the sound turned down. Watch animation (Warner Brothers, and specifically Chuck Jones, was a favourite of mine) to see how they exaggerate facial expressions and body language.Then try it out. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">BTW, I love the <A HREF="http://kitsune76.keenspace.com/d/20001018.html">toothy scream face</A> you've got going. Don't lose that.------------------
My God<A HREF="http://www.jobeth.net" TARGET=_blank>--</A>It's full of stars!

Al-Azif · Post by **Al-Azif** » Thu Nov 02, 2000 12:28 pm

I think I'll second what TBC said as well. His thoughts sum up my opinion as well. I think after you get into a groove, things will start to work out themselves. I recently re-read some annotated Far Side cartoons, and Gary Larson told of how he was forced to learn certain things about perspective and negative space without even knowing that he was learning them. As you see what works and what doesn't work, I think most of the problems will iron themselves out eventually.My main bit of artistic advice (there's absolutely nothing wrong with the writing, which is great) is that sometimes the panels are too cluttered. I'd recommend experimenting with new layouts. You seem to like drawing busy pictures, so you might want to expand your panels a bit. Nothing says you have to do 3-4 panels, laid out on a horizontal axis. People don't seem to mind scrolling vertically on webpages, so don't be afraid to experiment a little bit to find something that works for you.------------------
--Nick
<A HREF="http://hotzp.com/badboys" TARGET=_blank>BBoCS</A>

Everything Mike · Post by **Everything Mike** » Fri Nov 03, 2000 12:39 pm

One to remember, Kits, is don't get too discouraged. I would have to agree with most of the things previously said (hey cupid, where you been?). Best advise: Keep it simple. Don't try to jampack a panel when something simple would do nicely. Try more close-ups, and you don't always have to draw EVERYTHING that you think should be there. Art is subjective, and going for a simple graphic image sometimes will halp move the story better then "I have to draw each and every key on the keyboard becasue it's really there". Then again, that's my two cents, from the floating head guy. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">Keep it up, keep pushing it, you'll get better, trust me, as you gain confidence. You look at any given strip at the early ones (myself very included) and the art gets better as you go along. Also, if you want to help yourself, always have a sketch book and a pencil with you, and draw EVERYTHING you see around you. You wanna learn how to draw hands? Fill up an entire sketch book with different drawings of hands and then come talk to me. Always practice.And we miss you. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> ------------------
Mike!
EverythingJake.com!