Critic away, I'm all ears!

Think your comic can improve? Whether it's art or writing, composition or colouring, feel free to ask here! Critique and commentary welcome.

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Faub
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Re: Critic away, I'm all ears!

Post by Faub »

ellecomic wrote: Can I ask a question? Whytf does everyone use fire fox instead of IE anyway? Is it better? Because if so I don't see how!
Just to throw in my $0.02 on Firefox:
  1. With Firefox, I can open an original version of a website in one tab and open a modified version in another tab and compare them using Ctrl-Tab. With IE, I have to use multiple windows (I have IE7 running in stand alone mode, but it's tab feature is broken so I can't comment on that.) Alt-tabbing between windows is counterproductive because I generally have 6-12 programs running at any time and finding the right window in a dozen open windows is annoying if I just want to switch back and forth to compare then jump to the editor to make changes.
  2. IE is getting close to 10 years behind the times. It doesn't support new technologies without a lot of add ons. There are even add ons to "update" IE6 to give it standards compliance. The links provided will almost bring Internet Explorer up to the same level as Firefox in terms of available features and technology.
  3. The web is not Internet Explorer. The web is hundreds of different devices all trying to access content in their own ways. (Don't forget PDA and cellphone browsers!) That's why there are standards. If you throw in a device (Internet Explorer) that can't be bothered to comply with standards you either end up programming your site for IE only or you make exceptions in your code for IE. Either way, you bring down the quality of your site.
  4. Internet Explorer is not or is no longer available on non-Windows platforms. Linux and Mac are screwed yet many of the people designing the content on the web use these operating systems instead of Windows. Therefore, you have sites designed for Firefox or Safari instead of IE. You will notice that a site designed for Firefox or Safari will generally work the same in Firefox, Safari, Opera, or Konqueror and it may even work the same in Internet Explorer. This goes back to standards compliance.
From an HTML designer's stand point, I can't stand Internet Explorer because it's broken. It's horribly horribly broken.

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<div style="float:left;">...Content...</div>
The above code will cause IE to render some text invisible. The text is there and will appear if you select it, but it's invisible.

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<div style="margin:auto;">...Content...</div>
This is a nice, simple style that centers the content on the screen relative to what's around it. It will also center the content inside whatever block you contain it in. IE simply ignores this. To get the same effect, you have to contain the content twice, once for IE's broken implementation of "text-align:center;" and once for the rest of the world.

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<div style="text-align:center;"><div style="margin:auto;">...Content...</div></div>
In general, I'm forced to make my page designs using tables because of IE. Tables are about 5 years out of date for page design. They make the page unnecessarily complex and much more interesting techology exists to do the things that tables have traditionally done in web design. Tables should be used for tabular data, not page layouts.

IE's lack of support for transparent PNGs and the general broken-ness of Microsoft's PNG implementation is phenomenally irresponsible. libpng is free to the world. That was it's point. A company with that much ego and self absorption erks me to no end.

From a programmer's point of view, I like Internet Explorer as a tool. Microsoft went a long way to make their browser integrate with their programming tools. You can drag and drop an Internet Explorer control into a form and you have a working web browser with whatever tools and controls you feel like throwing in. It makes a great report viewer because HTML reports are easy to code and there's no incompatibilities or other stupidity that you can get with report generators. And, you can use the browser without leaving your program environment (no external browser!)

Basically, IE is good for simple things. For browsing the web, I feel I need something with more capabilities, something I can use on whatever computer I want to use whenever I want to use it and have my pages look the same.

That is why Internet Explorer sucks and Firefox rules.

Now, kindly throw everything I've said away because these arguments are stupid and you should use whatever browser you feel comfortable with. If you insist on designing solely for Internet Explorer, just remember that FireFox users, Mac users, Linux users and a host of other potential readers will look at your site once, be unable to use it and will never come back.

That's the position I'm in right now. I looked at your site and I don't feel like going back. I can't give you a critique because I can't easily look at your site.

Sorry.

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C.w.
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Post by C.w. »

Laaa dee daa... guess what? I'm bored, so I looked at your code. Your menu is mucked up because you make the containing element have a trasnparent background and the body have the same color as the text.

change

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<body bgproperties="fixed" bgcolor="E3E3E3" onload="init();">

<span ID="content" style="border:0px solid #FEE2E5;z-index:1; position:absolute;overflow:hidden;width:600;height:20;left:0;top:0; background:transparent; ">
to

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<body bgproperties="fixed" background:transparent; onload="init();">

<span ID="content" style="border:0px solid #FEE2E5;z-index:1; position:absolute;overflow:hidden;width:600;height:20;left:0;top:0; background:transparent; ">
At least, I think that'll work. If not you'll have to make with the fake background hack majigger. I only looked at that main page though.

I suggest that you get rid of the java scrolling doodad and put in some IE scrollbar color changing code, 'cause that crap dont't work. I also suggest getting rid of that dropshadow on all the text. It's hard for my face to read.
Maybe one day, you could fiddle up the site to just grow in the down direction instead of shoving everything in the little box, but that's just me. And also people who do webdesign and write articles that I read when I'm bored sometimes.

edit (still bored after movie watching) -
Now, for advice from an idiot - We're all web designers. Even if we don't want to be, we are. That doesn't mean that we all have to be die hard "IE sucks! it renders everything wrong! The W3C should just say 'how firefox does it is right!' and stop writing standards" kind of nerdy people. It does mean that we have to put up with all the crap they do. Testing code and looking up hacks and thinking things like "why in the world isn't this simple! It's a box inside another box!" A web designer's job isn't to make a page that is pretty, it's to make a pretty page that everyone can use. I don't care if you hate firefox, and it's crazy standards support. If you hates the HTML, don't go for the complicated layout, and if you do, don't get mad when it breaks... just ask for help - somebody will look through your code and find the problem (even if it's just a dorky guy like me.) Yeah, you didn't ask for layout critiques, but roll with the punches.

I'd also like to second whoever said that you're alienating readers - here's the graph of what browser people use to access my site:
Image
Anywho, artwise... it's a little flat for my tastes. Some shading maybe? Not a lot, just a little. Your layouts are nice, but they also have a lot of gutter space that seems like it could be used better perhaps? The other thing is that sometimes your anatomy is off. Anatomy is tough for the best of us, my suggestion is to go down to the art teacher, ask to use a anatomy book, and study the cover off. It's what I did. Don't trust my judgement though - I am by no means a pro at anything. Above all, have fun. As they say in the hokey pokey, that's what it's all about.
Image
Other comics i've done
Webpage troubles? HTML Generator to the rescue.

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Ellecomic
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Post by Ellecomic »

Does anyone want to let me know if the second ver. is working right?
http://www.myumyu.se/elle/

I just got back from a one week getaway so I didn't get a chance to read the last few replies just yet but I'll get on that! Thanks for inputing everyone

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Faub
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Post by Faub »

Thanks for the site update. It looks great! My only complaint is that your site opens a new tab in my browser (a new windows in IE) at one point. It's not a big deal and it doesn't affect navigation any.

Critique of the art! :D

Page 1: Nice opening. I don't see anything particularly troubling here.

Page 2:
Google: "gun to head"
Google: "revolver"
I find photo references to be very important, especially for mundane things that "everybody" knows how to draw. Often times we don't really know what these things look like. We just have really firm impressions of what we think they look like. The gun on this page does not look natural.

The last two panels of page 1 don't "feel" right. I focus more on the arm being out of place in panel 4 and the gun being held wrong in panel 5. This person doesn't look serious. He's just holding the gun. He's not ready to pull the trigger.

I use this as an example. This person has a much tighter grip on the gun. He seems a bit relaxed, but he could, at any moment, pull the trigger. Notice how the arm is tighter in. The gun is firmly pressed against the temple. Constance is holding the gun well away from his head in panel 4. He's holding it in front on him and basically looking at it in panel 5. It looks unintentional.

If the scene was intentional and the character really is fumbling with the gun, unwilling to commit to even holding it to his head, you should change the angle.

Also, the angle of the window sill doesn't seem to match the angle of his butt sitting on it. At least not the angle his legs seem to be hanging off it. At first, his left leg looks too high, but then you have him at a 3/4 angle which means there should be a vanishing point off the left side of the panel, but you have the window sill and the window frame lines parallel to each other. Being parallel, they should be straight on with the viewer and they aren't. It's strange, though I admit you picked a very difficult angle and you did a pretty decent job with it. Bravo for not picking the easy way out.

Page 3: Again, he's not really holding the gun to his head. He's holding it up and away. There's a possibility that he would flub the suicide attempt and end up a vegetable.

Pages 4 and 5: difficult to say anything about.

I have not trouble at all getting what is happening in your pages so far. Even without dialog, these would be good pages.

I do notice that you have some difficulty with posing your characters. Photo references. I try to encourage everyone I know to use them. You should definitely use more. (I should definitely use more for that matter.) Use them especially for scenery: doors, guns, walls, windows, furniture, etc.

I also notice that you have some problems with perspective. Don't be afraid of it, even when the angles look silly while you're drawing them. Well done perspective can do wonders for a page.

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Ellecomic
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Post by Ellecomic »

I do use reference pictures. For the most part. I can never find what I'm looking for however so I usually change a picture a bit to suit my liking. I guess it doesn't show :\ I'm amateur, I don't draw very often. I still need a lot of practice. I do improve quickly so I'm hoping it will begin to show very soon!

As for the gun thing, I've already got a lecture on that one :\

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Faub
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Post by Faub »

Keep drawing and your skills will improve.

http://www.digitalwar.co.uk/d/20020731.html
http://www.digitalwar.co.uk/

This guy hadn't picked up a pencil to draw before he started his comic. His artwork has improved more since he last updated too.

Just keep your failings in mind when you're drawing and try to find ways to improve on them. Draw things that are hard for you. You can only get better by doing so.

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