What do you think of Poser for comics?

[Michael K]

Came across a comic on keenspace which was "drawn" with 3d posing software and thought it was an interesting idea. Found myself wondering whether there were many people who used it and what the general public feel was about it. Would rather not start a flame war between users and non-users, but I would be interested to know peoples opinions.

My opinion: As someone who can (somewhat) draw, it seems an odd and funny concept that people would pay money to get 1 specific thing that they're able to use in their creation. For example people might pay $20 and receive this character that they can put in any pose... But you want to change his outfit and you'll need to buy those clothes. Want him to hold a phone and you have to buy that too. Whereas for an artist, drawing someone in a different outfit or with a phone takes at most some photographic references. Still, I'm thinking of playing around with poser for a bit as a bit of fun, using the free samples and things I can find.

So, basically what I'm wondering...

Do you use poser for your comic?
Do you use it for fun?
Are Poser comics the new sprite comics?
To those who use poser, do you draw?
If not, would you use poser if you could draw instead?

[Alschroeder]

I think they can be really well done, like Joey Zabel's mysteries at MODERN TALES, and there was another comic, the SPECIALISTS, that did it well...but every one ends up looking plastic at this stage of the software, so I don't think it will rival actual drawing.

Yet.

I emphasize the qualification.---Al

[STrRedWolf]

There's some comics that use different models, like the Furrette/Furraldo models. I also know there's Exodus by Pepper that being posted on the Vixen Controlled Library, using remapped Poser figures.

Check Daz|3d (daz3d.com) for some ideas and their Freepository.

[War]

Comics made in poser typically all look the same. And they sit happily in the uncanny valley.

[Terotrous]

What, you mean these people don't make their own models? What's the point of 3D modelling if you're not gonna model the stuff yourself?

[Captainclover]

i think it sounds like a good idea to make some money...

i guess as a whole i'm pretty indifferent to it. some people are more gifted storytellers than artists and if they really want to make a comic, then i guess that's a good way for them. i wouldn't abstain from reading a comic because they used 3D models or something so long as the art wasn't annoying. but i think i'd really need to see an example of what you're talking about to really understand.. this is the first i've heard of it.

[ShineDog]

i dont think ive seen one that looks good though. but i think thats as much poser as anything else. poser doesnt do naturalistic lighting and naturalistic poses very well, it would seem.


Put this way, the garysmod HL2 comics look MUCH better than most of the poser comics.



<3 garysmod.

[Resolve]

poser doesn't really allow for alot of control. But it's easy to start with. High end 3d modeling in programs like maya can do amazing things with the right ammount of effort and training. Your begining stuff will look terrible, but your intermediate stuff will look incredible in comparison to posers models you either make or buy yourself.

buut maya is currently... 7,000 dollars... cough.

to learn and actually utilize a high end rendering software requires effort far beyond simple hobbywork. It's an occupation.

there is however... blender3d.

[Col]

Seems kind of silly to have 3D models when they don't move. But I'm a traditionalist, so I'm biased.

[Terotrous]

You could always get the "personal learning edition" of maya, which is free from their website.

They watermark your renders, though.

[Faileas]

Hi all,

For better or worse, I'm one of those people using 3D modeling to create a comic (thereby possibly falling under the title of "artist" and possibly not, depending on who you talk to). Here's my two cents.

Do you use poser for your comic?

I use DAZ|Studio rather than Poser because DAZ a) is free and b) can use much of the stuff built for Poser. The drawback with DAZ is the very limited ability to create new things. I'm currently playing with Bryce and looking at some of the free 3D modelers out there in hopes of eventually using my own stuff, but for the most part what I use in my comic are a few things I've purchased and tons of free things created by other people. It's interesting to note that many people in the realm of 3D modeling have specialties. One person will have great clothes, another builds amazing hair, and a third can provide buildings that look like photographs, but there aren't many out there that "do it all."

Some day when I have a couple hundred bucks to drop on a program I may add Poser to my collection.

Do you use it for fun?

Definitely. I've had lots of fun putting together some fan art for other comics, an image of Genchan, illustrations for other projects, toying with animation, and even working on a possibly practical application with regard to virtual speech therapy.

Are Poser comics the new sprite comics?

I don't have a good answer for that one...

To those who use poser, do you draw?

Yes. Badly. And it's not fun.

If not, would you use poser if you could draw instead?

If I could draw better, I might be less inclined to use 3D modeling. Maybe. It's hard to say. For me, using DAZ gives me the chance to tell a story visually rather than through my usual method: writing. I really enjoy working in the 3D environment and learning new things about texture, color, spatial relationships, and modeling. If I were really good at drawing I might never have tried the 3D tools simply because I was being challenged and was enjoying learning new techniques in that area instead.

some people are more gifted storytellers than artists and if they really want to make a comic, then i guess that's a good way for them.

I won't claim to fall under "gifted" but this has certainly been a good way for me to make the transition to a visual form.

i wouldn't abstain from reading a comic because they used 3D models or something so long as the art wasn't annoying. but i think i'd really need to see an example of what you're talking about to really understand.. this is the first i've heard of it.

Thanks. You can find one example by following the link in my banner below. While I'm still rather new to the programs I'm using, I like to think that the art isn't annoying (and that it's getting better).

Seems kind of silly to have 3D models when they don't move.

Actually, you can reposition them pretty much however you want and DAZ makes creating animations fairly easy if that's the route you want to go.

If you would like to know more about DAZ or some of the other sites I use, please stop by Six Seconds and take a look around. I try to credit everyone whose work I use and provide links to where I found that work.

- Faileas

[Michael K]

If you would like to know more about DAZ or some of the other sites I use, please stop by Six Seconds and take a look around.

As it happens it was reading Six Seconds that made me curious about the process. (It's a very nice looking comic by the way). Thanks to you I spent last night downloading DAZ studios... and not figuring out how to make it work. But still, it looks like it can be fun when I learn how to use the damn program.

[Faileas]

Thanks to you I spent last night downloading DAZ studios... and not figuring out how to make it work. But still, it looks like it can be fun when I learn how to use the damn program.

The manuals they provide help a bit but I haven't been horribly impressed by them. Trial by error has gotten me farther along, as have several of the tutorials on the DAZ website.

[Faileas]

As someone who can (somewhat) draw, it seems an odd and funny concept that people would pay money to get 1 specific thing that they're able to use in their creation. For example people might pay $20 and receive this character that they can put in any pose... But you want to change his outfit and you'll need to buy those clothes. Want him to hold a phone and you have to buy that too.

As a side note, this sort of "okay, what can I use here that I already have or can find for free?" thinking can make for some interesting twists in a story. Sometimes you find yourself coming up with more intriguing storylines because you have to tweak them to fit the objects available.

[McDuffies]

Interesting subject. I gotta note that any CG rendered comics aren't exactly my favourite, not to dismiss them easily, they're just not my cup of tea. Maybe because with my dial-up connection, they take awfully long to load, usually.
Regardless of that, poser is, well, in a way like sprite comics or photo comics, a further move toward easing making comics for people who cannot draw. The simple rule is, whatever tools you use, effort is a clue to good comics. Of course, with Poser, Sprites or Photo, there's less effort in learning to draw, but you still have to put that effort in some other place. To take the example of photo comics that I know more of, you have to consider things like: finding "actors", scenographies, perhaps special effects, and, all in all, to make a script that is possible to render visually with means you have. Similar thing with Poser comics, you can do them the easy way, just moving pre-made figures around, and that probably won't make a good comic, but then you can - well, I don't know the phases of the process so I wouldn't specualte on what parts of it could be expanded, but you catch my drift. One thing I can think of is, as the number of poser comics rises, they became less visually attractive, so the author has to put effort in making his comic more attractive, different from other poser comics, reckognizable.

Say, at first I thought this thread was about wooden dolls that people use as model for drawing.

[Faileas]

Having only dial-up myself, I have to agree with the length of time many of them take to load. I try very hard to keep mine under 80k. I started trying to keep them under 50k but the compression was becoming seriously visible.

As you say, though, using a 3D format doesn't make it quick. I shudder to think how much time I've burned on downloading alone, much less the work on the comic. You still have to set up actors, mess with costumes and props, fiddle with lights and cameras, and throw in special effects. I often also end up doing "post production" work with Paint Shop Pro to get things the way I want. Sometimes its adding effects; usually I'm just needing to fix spots where clothing doesn't render quite right or the like.

[Keffria]

I think it's very difficult for someone who's never used the software to have any sort of appreciation for the effort that goes into making a Poser comic (or a photo comic, for that matter), as I would assume it's quite different from more traditional means.

I know, myself, I generally ook at such comics and think, "ho-hum" -- to me, it's little better than sprite or cut-and-paste work. I think this effect is probably heightened by the fact that I hand-draw comics, and I'm not willing to consider other ways of producing them.

[MixedMyth]

In general I tend not to like them. But this is in general. Ultimately, it depends on exicution, as with anything. It is a sad fact that most Poser comics look alike, so there's this sense of individuality that's lost. However, if someone takes the time to add their own flavor to it, I think it could be interesting. An alternative is to work the Poser style into the comic itself.

I think that's one reason that the tv show Reboot worked so well- it was crude (by current standards of modeling...good for the time, though!) artificial looking CG, but because the characters were actually PART of a computer, those qualities seemed to be part of the story itself.

[Gau dog]

they're just posers.

[Michael K]

As a side note, this sort of "okay, what can I use here that I already have or can find for free?" thinking can make for some interesting twists in a story. Sometimes you find yourself coming up with more intriguing storylines because you have to tweak them to fit the objects available.

Back when I was doing creative writing classes I always loved those assignments were you'd need to write stories including a particular object, scene, action or whatever. It'd be kind of fun doing that with poser.

In fact leaving poser aside for a moment I'd love to do a comic where that was the "gimick" each week you get people to give you a list of things you need to include... wait. Stop. Bad Michael. Get current comic at least on net before thinking of new projects.