DIVE - 100 comics yay :D

Bass Master Fei · Post by **Bass Master Fei** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:08 pm

Ah. Now that my archive has reached something like 105 comics and I've got a slightly spiffier layout, I guess it's as good a time as any to pitch the old comic.

A little about DIVE: I've been drawing it for less than a year, and I'm still not entirely sure what it's about. It's humorous, but it's not supposed to be a comedy, and it updates three times a week. And I've tried my best to keep it from falling into the great abyss of magic-related comics, so mostly it's bishounen running about and occasionally snarking at each other. If someone could come up with a better summary, I'd be quite grateful.

And of course, comments are quite welcome.

http://dive.keenspace.com

Bass Master Fei · Post by **Bass Master Fei** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:22 pm

Ouch. Talk about a blow to the old ego.

*sniffle* I can take a hint.

*shuffles off in an appropriately overdramatic fashion*

Telecoda · Post by **Telecoda** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:51 pm

I like the art style.

I was a little confused by the mixture of coloured and non coloured strips.

A sizeable archive already.

Sincerely · Post by **Sincerely** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:20 pm

Disclaimer: I don't like anime.

I had trouble following the story. It jumped around a lot, there are a ton of characters and all of the guys are almost identical except for minor differences in hair color and almost no differences in hair style. I find the problem for me is that you've got at least (!) five male characters and all of them have the exact same body type (see disclaimer).

There were a couple of funny bits but over all I think there is an over-reliance on pure wacky. It's difficult to understand what's going on at any given moment because of rapid changes in camera orientation, similar character designs, random lazy-art (like stick figures and street sign characters). I found I got an over all impression of what was going on, but individual strips made no sense whatsoever, most of the time.

I find I disagree with telecoda in regards to the mixing of color and gray-scale strips. What distracted me more was the mixing of black-and-white strips with gray-scale ones. The color strips were like oases, where I could tell what exactly was going on at the moment and recognize different characters more reliably. Also, the coloring job was very pretty.

Bass Master Fei · Post by **Bass Master Fei** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:51 pm

telecoda wrote:I like the art style.

I was a little confused by the mixture of coloured and non coloured strips.

A sizeable archive already. :lol:

Ah, thank you ^^. I know I have a kind of consistency problem with the coloring/non-coloring, mostly because I was trying to see if I could reliably color my pages (Answer: no). Thanks for trying to soldier through it >.>

sincerely wrote:Disclaimer: I don't like anime.

As is often the case, I suppose. But I'm glad you gave it a try nonetheless.

I had trouble following the story. It jumped around a lot, there are a ton of characters and all of the guys are almost identical except for minor differences in hair color and almost no differences in hair style. I find the problem for me is that you've got at least (!) five male characters and all of them have the exact same body type (see disclaimer).

Oh, believe me, I know all about this. I think it's much easier to tell people apart if you're already an anime fan (all otaku I know can tell them apart easily), but the body type thing...yeah. Blame that all on my inadequacies as an artist >___>. I've been trying to skinify up one or two characters, but it's very easy to get lazy. And I have way, way too many guys.

There were a couple of funny bits but over all I think there is an over-reliance on pure wacky. It's difficult to understand what's going on at any given moment because of rapid changes in camera orientation, similar character designs, random lazy-art (like stick figures and street sign characters). I found I got an over all impression of what was going on, but individual strips made no sense whatsoever, most of the time.

I think that first part is especially true when it comes to Ben, who I was trying to edge away from that wackiness in chapter... 2? I also agree with you about the individual strips. It would probably be better if I updated these things several at a time, because of the way they're written. I'm so, so happy you remarked on the camera orientation, though. You see, I've always been afraid I wouldn't change the orientation enough (open a manga book and see what I mean >.>). I don't think I'll change that bit anytime soon, even if it is a little confusing, but hooray ^^. And I've been trying to cut down on sticks. I don't know what you mean by street sign characters, though.

I find I disagree with telecoda in regards to the mixing of color and gray-scale strips. What distracted me more was the mixing of black-and-white strips with gray-scale ones. The color strips were like oases, where I could tell what exactly was going on at the moment and recognize different characters more reliably. Also, the coloring job was very pretty.

Yes, I imagine this would be difficult. Even I have trouble with the black and white ones, and I only do one when I'm terribly strapped for time. Thanks for the compliments on my coloring ^^. It looks like I don't have time to color every page, though, which is extremely unfortunate, because I do think it makes things a lot clearer. On the other hand, doing one sucks up my time like nothing else.

Thanks to both of you for taking the time to respond :D. And thanks to you, sincerely, in particular, for confirming my suspicions. At least now I know I'm not being paranoid about things I need to work on. Sorry you don't like anime, and I hope reading the comic wasn't too much of a strain for you.

Sincerely · Post by **Sincerely** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:24 pm

Well, it wouldn't be a strain. I'm the type of person that -has- to read the archive of every comic I come across, so I would've probably done it eventually anyway and I'll probably do it again.

And though I don't really find that I enjoy art that's specifically labeled as anime, that doesn't mean I can't enjoy individual works that happen to be in the anime style. I'm just automatically biased against it. Your artwork is, on its own, very attractive and if your target audience can recognize your characters and appreciate the humor than you're doing your job.

Catlegend · Post by **Catlegend** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:21 pm

The characters are unique and I aboslutely adore Ben. But I admit, sometimes in the big action scenes I can't figure out who's who.
If you want a wide audience, you have the skills, don't limit yourself by saying only the anime saavy will get it. Sometimes it IS just confusing for confusings sake.

Great and fantastic story though!

Bass Master Fei · Post by **Bass Master Fei** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:11 am

sincerely wrote:Well, it wouldn't be a strain. I'm the type of person that -has- to read the archive of every comic I come across, so I would've probably done it eventually anyway and I'll probably do it again.

And though I don't really find that I enjoy art that's specifically labeled as anime, that doesn't mean I can't enjoy individual works that happen to be in the anime style. I'm just automatically biased against it. Your artwork is, on its own, very attractive and if your target audience can recognize your characters and appreciate the humor than you're doing your job.

Whoa, that must take up an awful lot of time. I also have this problem (went through the entire Penny Arcade archive last year in a series of days). I was going to ask how much of the archive you had to read to get that kind of detailed critique, too ^^.

I know what you mean... it may sound weird, but I myself am kind of biased against the anime style. It seems like a lot of people are piggybacking on it simply because it's popular right now, which makes me kind of uncomfortable and try to steer around the more common substyles. As for my target audience, well... the fans that actually e-mail me seem to like it ^^;;.

catlegend wrote:The characters are unique and I aboslutely adore Ben. But I admit, sometimes in the big action scenes I can't figure out who's who.
If you want a wide audience, you have the skills, don't limit yourself by saying only the anime saavy will get it. Sometimes it IS just confusing for confusings sake.

Ah, thank you. Fortunately or unfortunately, everyone seems to love him. I...wish he wasn't so clearly the favorite sometimes. Now about the action scenes: I know. Especially when I don't have time to shade it. Plus, I have very little experience with action. Sigh. I'll try to make more different-looking people fight from now on.

Great and fantastic story though!

Thank you very much ^^. I'm not sure I told you this before (I might have skipped over it since I didn't want to repeat everyone else too much), but I also like the way your comic is set up. Even if I don't always get what's going on, I love those comics with a wide scope. And flashbacks >.> Must remember to draw fanart of Dor.

Catlegend · Post by **Catlegend** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:18 am

hee!

Don't get me wrong...Fei and Anna are on my list too- for VERY different reasons. You just made Ben easy to like when you gave him Ed (cowboy beebop) moments in the beginning.

I read you whole archive last night and I wouldn't have done it if the rest of your cast let me down. Plus, you have a way with mystery.

Bass Master Fei · Post by **Bass Master Fei** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:37 pm

Yeahhh mystery! *shakes fist happily* And hooray for Ed ^___^. I felt really sad to see her go like that.

You...you like Fei and Anna? *makes huge puppy eyes* Please, tell me why! Then maybe I'll find some way to make others like them as well!

*does a happy dance* Oh, Bebop.

Catlegend · Post by **Catlegend** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:54 am

Ok,

I like Fei because he's kind of a jerk but at least he's honest to that. He's kind of a bitch but he never goes too far before I stop liking him. I think Anna's great because she is sadly sweet in her unluckiness. I'm sure as your archive gets bigger as long as you stay true to them people will like them fine.

Bass Master Fei · Post by **Bass Master Fei** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:17 am

Hooray! Thank you.

It always kind of surprises me that people think Fei is such a jerk, but at least it's good to hear he's not a hopeless case :3. I suspect it's because he has no backstory yet or something. And Anna is terribly unlucky.

At any rate, I've been wondering whose backstory to do first. Plus, I only have about 30 pages per chapter. Arrgh, how maddening. I'm amazed that artists like Kishimoto (Naruto) can somehow maintain the respective histories of their huge casts of characters. Then again, I suppose they have the benefit of 200-some chapters.

Must stop introducing characters!

Catlegend · Post by **Catlegend** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:24 am

You've taken on a lot haven't you? You started with so many characters. I don't envy you

Bass Master Fei · Post by **Bass Master Fei** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:23 pm

Indeed. An irrevocable mistake, if you ask me

, especially for someone starting out on their first comic. Ah well. I suppose you can't make a good comic without making some crappy ones first.

Plus, the going is pretty slow, even with three pages a week. On the other hand, at least I'll have plenty to draw >.>. I should have listened to my conscience and used my other comic idea. Maybe.

Subhuman · Post by **Subhuman** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:17 pm

Dude, just kill some of them off. Character assassination for fun and profit!

I agree that the narrative style is really all over the map. You started off well with that "I love this new school" strip, but it goes a bit wonky from there. And yeah, too many characters, and too many near-identical guys. (Also, this is quite possibly the gayest comic I have ever seen. And I mean that as a compliment.

)

On the plus side, your art looks like actual manga. Too many web comics go for the "!!!super kawaii chibi!!!" look and fall flat - yours looks like the real deal. So, points there.

Catlegend · Post by **Catlegend** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:39 pm

I should have listened to my conscience and used my other comic idea. Maybe.

You know you can always work on your other idea while learning from this one. The practice will make both better for it, I'm sure.

Bass Master Fei · Post by **Bass Master Fei** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:04 am

Subhuman wrote:Dude, just kill some of them off. Character assassination for fun and profit!

Kill them D: ? I can't do that, I'd get murdered myself! Plus, once dead they'd probably just come back as ghosts >___<.

I agree that the narrative style is really all over the map. You started off well with that "I love this new school" strip, but it goes a bit wonky from there. And yeah, too many characters, and too many near-identical guys. (Also, this is quite possibly the gayest comic I have ever seen. And I mean that as a compliment. :lol: )

Hahha. Yes. The school thing was mostly because I don't like comics that start with "omg i am movign to a new school!!1" *sigh* Well, you see... the narrative style is really due to the fact that I can't make up my mind what I want this to be about. The sad chapter was written while I was on a Fullmetal Alchemist kick, and then the most recently finished one happened when I picked up watching Naruto again. Hahaha x.o. The gayest comic? How so? I can't really tell, as I consume yaoi/shounen-ai constantly :P.

On the plus side, your art looks like actual manga. Too many web comics go for the "!!!super kawaii chibi!!!" look and fall flat - yours looks like the real deal. So, points there.

Thank you!! (two exclamation points) I've been working really hard on this, since I don't like a lot of the styles that have been appearing lately. They remind me too much of existing works or those "How to Draw Manga" books, or even those manga-icized (but clearly American) styles. You don't know how happy I am to hear that :3.

catlegend wrote:
I should have listened to my conscience and used my other comic idea. Maybe.
You know you can always work on your other idea while learning from this one. The practice will make both better for it, I'm sure.

Indeed. That's kind of what I'm planning to do, over the summer. Except I'm not making a comic out of it, I'm going to try to make it a Flash movie. </omg suicide> Hopefully it won't get blammed when (and if) it hits Newgrounds. Then again, considering some of the other stuff that's submitted... >.>

Catlegend · Post by **Catlegend** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:42 pm

Omg, flash movie??

::Backs aways for fear that the amount of work might take innocent bystanders::

Sincerely · Post by **Sincerely** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:24 pm

I want to see that! Suicide would be appropriate, but I'll bet it'll be horribly awesome. Flash movie!

Bass Master Fei · Post by **Bass Master Fei** » Sun May 01, 2005 3:36 pm

You all say that now, but considering my first attempt at Flash, this is a pretty terrible idea >___>. Some people can do amazing things in Flash, and this is good. I am a Flash retard, and my last movie was about thirty seconds of stuff that didn't make sense to the tune of Tom Waits' "God's Away On Business".

By the way, catlegend, I have a Dor fanart sketched out for you, but I'm thinking I should color it first. Temporary version, in case you wanted to see it...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11281982@N00/11856070/