disOWNED

[Guildmaster Van]

I'm a bunch of things in life - I'm an artist, a writer, a lover of the orient and medieval fantasy, and an insufferable miserable douchebag who is insistant on fighting no matter how stupid or pointless my argument may be to prove that he doesn't back down or is worthless.

I'm also like my father.

For several years now my father and I have become increasingly distant to the point that we can't stand each other. He treats me like I'm worthless, and I easily offend him. I thought maybe because of my mother's cancer he and I could become closer, as one of her wishes she secretly confided in me is that she'd die happy knowing my father and I got along.

The problem is he and I are very similar; he was in the middle of a large family in which the head was his mother, a strict businesswoman who treated her children as nuisances, while his father was forty years his senior and spent all his time in church. As a result, he was treated like he was worthless by his mother and fought to win her attention to no avail. He ran away from home at sixteen and decided he'd never take any crap from anyone again no matter who it was. Similarly, as a child I was treated like I was worthless and was literally told I didn't belong in society by my peer in school and was beaten up pretty much every day until I was in grade 8. Being english in a small french town meant I was going to be stuck with the same group of people until I graduated, which meant I'd never fit in. I decided not to take anymore crap from anyone in grade 8 and began whooping the tar with anyone who dare piss me off. As a result, I was sent to juvi.

My father and I are similar in the fact we refuse to admit defeat or to back down from a stance, even if we say the right things in the wrong way or wrong time. This also means he and I cannot get along, even though most of the time I shut my mouth we he begins berrating me.

A week ago I had the chance to speak to him alone and said to him "Look, you and I don't see eye-to-eye, but mom is sick and for her sake all I'm saying is we have to learn to get along somehow.". My father didn't respond to me, let alone even look at me when I spoke to him.

Tonight I had stopped by my parent's place and started chatting with them.

My father look to me and said "Did the army reserves ever call back? Did you go make your application?", even though he knew full well after my mother explained to him I decided to let my idea of joining the army slide.

"No," I replied "I decided not to join, and instead find a regular job."

"And what if you don't find one?"

I grinned "Already being negative?"

He growled and stood up from the table, angered that I would call his suspicious questioning "negative". I retorted, and we started fighting.

At one point I stared him down and snarled "I'm tired of looking into your eyes and seeing only disrespect and someone who sees me as worthless!"

He furrowed his brow, insulted "All I heard was disrespect, disrespect, disrespect!"

Whenever someone opposes his will, be it me or my mother, he will accuse that person of disrespecting him and storm out of the house unless he gets his way. I had grown tired of listening to his same routine over the past twenty years.

"Shut up!" I pointed at him "You're treating me the same way your mother treated you, aren't I right?!"

He said nothing.

"I told you the other day we had to set aside our differences for mom and yet you still act like a dick all the time."

"You're trying to tell me what to do - I'm leaving."

"Yes, this time I'm the one telling you what to do! I've had to listen to your s**t for all my life and had to keep my mouth shut; now you've got to learn when it's time to sit down and shut the f**k up! You're not leaving; you're going to sit down and we're going to have supper."

He went through the door of my parent's condo, still fuming and yelling at me and my mother, who was crying and trying to defend some of my points. To be angry with me is one thing; to be angry with my mother is another.

I growled one final attack at him "You've got the biggest ego of anyone I've ever met!"

He shut the door, got into his van, and drove off.


I turned around to console my crying mother, who also had to let my father have his way since they met. I began helping her with the meal she had prepared, which would now go to waste between only the two of us. I had wanted to slug him so badly, but of all the times we fought I never did.

I clenched my fist, tearing up and crying slightly "I'm tired of that man thinking I'm worthless."



I'm a bunch of things in life - I'm an artist, a writer, a lover of the orient and medieval fantasy, and an insufferable miserable douchebag who is insistant on fighting no matter how stupid or pointless my argument may be to prove that he doesn't back down or is worthless, but I no longer wish to be the latter. I don't want to end up a bitter insensitive bastard like my father who will go at any lengthes to prove he's right no matter people he steps on in the process.

[Blackaby]

Here's hoping you get happy.

[Ian Moulding]

I don't want to end up a bitter insensitive bastard like my father who will go at any lengthes to prove he's right no matter people he steps on in the process.

You seem to be more aware of your behaviour than your father is, and you want to make some changes. So you're off to a good start on that.

I'm sorry about your mother. I wish there was something I could say to help.

[Escushion]

Staying behind to be help to your mother shows a great difference in reaction to the fight than his.

[MariaAndMichelle]

That sucks, dude. We're sorry.

[Dotty]

Yeah Van, I'm sorry to hear your homelife still sucks. Your father and my father have something in common, and something you and I have in common...the never backing down thing. I noticed it years ago, and took steps to fix it, and my life has improved. I still occasionally see this side of me come out...but no. I don't want to constantly always have to be right.

The difference between my dad and your dad though....is he never treated me with disrespect. That's why I feel bad for your situation. He had a shitty upbringing, and is taking it out on you and your mother. I was once suspended from school for threatening a teacher after she insulted my mother. I know all about losing it when the mother is brought into it.

Be a man, and don't back down...and whatever you do...keep the idea that you're going to change. Your dad probably never will...but maybe someday he'll grow up if you keep putting him in his place.

I wish you and your dad getting along luck....at least...for your mothers sake.

[Wp]

...after she insulted my mother....

The hell? I bet nothing happened to the teacher, too.

[Dr Legostar]

that really sucks Van, I hope you can get something worked out.

[Dutch!]

Remember though that if it wasn't for him you wouldn't be here...

[Dotty]

...after she insulted my mother....

The hell? I bet nothing happened to the teacher, too.

The teacher said something in class...can't remember what anymore. I raised my hand and said that my mother taught me opposite of that...and she went on to say that my mother must not be very smart. Then chuckled about it and said something to the effect of "I'm shocked she made it as far in life as she did with ideas in her simple mind like that".

Of course, I snapped, stood up and said quite audiably "if you dare say anything like that about my mother again, you'll fucking regret it."

So I'm suspended for 5 days now (this was post columbine) and my Dad was very proud of me, as was my mother. My father went to the head of the schoolboard, and freaked on them for quite some time. I got a suspension sheet, which to this day I still have framed on my wall, because, yes, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

When it was all said and done, the teacher hauled me into a classroom...just the two of us, and said "I'm basically demanding you to beg to be let back into class" to which I responded "No. You'll be waiting a very long time if you expect me to beg after what you said." and she understood, and let me back in class. As I walked by her, I said "what I said still stands."

No. She didn't get a slap on the wrist, nothing. She also didn't say anything about my, or anyones, mother again to my knowledge. Further through the year, some dude who I haven't seen in years stole 80 bucks from her desk to get a tattoo, and her car was repeatedly egged. She's not a popular teacher, to my knowledge, and when the schools in the area amalgamated, she wasn't kept on board.

So I guess everyone gets it in the end.

[Escushion]

Remember though that if it wasn't for him you wouldn't be here...

That same level of contribution is manageable from a frozen pop. What's your point?

[Rickford]

Remember though that if it wasn't for him you wouldn't be here...

Yes. Because a man having sex is really an act that deserves gratitude.
I sypathise with you, it isn't an easy lot.
My advice, although possibly not particularly good, would be to beat the man to within an inch of his life. After you've done that, there are no more pent up emotions left unspent. Nothing more left to say. You can then go about basing a relationship on cold acceptance of the other's existance. You'll have lost a father, but you'll no more have to suffer his ill voiced opinions, and you'll be able to occupy the same space without having any reason to voice hostility. The only situation in which there are hostilities, is a situation where there is some kind of hope of redemption involved. A hope that the other can change. With that illusion removed, the tension goes with it.
Changing yourself is something you can do. Other people have to change for themselves.

[McDuffies]

Nearly ever man I know fights with their father. It's the most emotionally violent relationship I've seen, and the one that follows a certain pattern most closely.
They, fathers, look at us practically as if we were still infants who yet have to prove themselves in this world, persons who have yet to deserve their respect. No matter what we do, no matter how achieving we are, we'll always be one step behind what we'd need to be to get any of that respect. No matter what the subject, they will always believe that they know much more about it than we do.
We sons, on the other hand, look at fathers and prey not to became like them one day.
I've seen it many times, there are variations, but the pattern is always the same. You want them to admit that you are a man. They always return with: "You might be a man, but you're not as half a man as I am."

[Rickford]

The easy way to break this cycle is to never have kids.

[Ekolter]

My nickel.

I'm a gal. Tomboy is more like it. I have a nearly non existant relationship with my biological father (and wicked evil stepmother). I've tried to get him interested in my life to no avail. I was an unexpected and I suspect an unwanted surprise at the time (my mother 16 and my father was 19 when I was born). He's a father of convience. If it's convience or expect, he's usually there. I've lived in St. Louis since 1997. He's only visisted me three times so far. Ususally for an hour or so then he gotta go to some thing or another. Last time I saw him was my wedding, nearly two years ago.

Oh and I am the one who calls. Rarely does he call me. I can't recall when I last called him. Sad isn't it.

I must admit it hurts knowing he doesn't give a damn about me or my brother (does the same thing to him as me). I decided after my wedding that if he wants to contact me, he knows where I am. When I move, he has to contact my mother to get the information. She lives in the small town as he does, just on the other side.

Also my yet conceived children probably won't get to know him. I just don't want them to go through the "unloved and unwanted" feeling my brother and I have had. Nobody should ever have to feel that way.

I'll be more fucked up than I am if it wasn't for my step-dad aka Dad. I have my bouts with him that rival most father/son relationships. However, at least I know he GIVES a damn about me. More than I can say about my father.

[Jackhass]

[Sips on a drink]...you expect me to read all that? Cliff notes son!

[Rock_dash]

[Sips on a drink]...you expect me to read all that? Cliff notes son!

That was my first reaction as well, but I read it anyway. Van, I'm sorry you had to go through that. I'm in the same boat as Beth, except I've never spoken to my father at all, even though he lives probably no more than 20 minutes from my grandmother's house. I admire you for being there for your mother, by the way. Here's hoping for the best...

[Col]

My advice, although possibly not particularly good, would be to beat the man to within an inch of his life. After you've done that, there are no more pent up emotions left unspent. Nothing more left to say. You can then go about basing a relationship on cold acceptance of the other's existance. You'll have lost a father, but you'll no more have to suffer his ill voiced opinions, and you'll be able to occupy the same space without having any reason to voice hostility. The only situation in which there are hostilities, is a situation where there is some kind of hope of redemption involved. A hope that the other can change. With that illusion removed, the tension goes with it.

You're right, that isn't good advice at all.

Hope things get better for you, Van. Especially your mom's health.

[Ian Moulding]

My parents seperated when I was a kid, and my mom took me to live in a different city. It was close enough for me to visit my dad by Greyhound, so I still got to see him regularly.

After a few years of regular monthly visits, confirmed by phone before I got put on the bus, I showed up the station to find that my dad wasn't there. At first I figured he was just late - That happened a lot - so I waited a bit. After a while I called him at home, but there was no answer. I waited a bit more, trying to figure out what I should do, and eventually decided I'd have to call my mom back in Saskatoon. No one was home there either.

So I grabbed the phone book and looked up the number of his favourite bar, figuring that if he wasn't there someone who knew him would be (This was the bar of choice for the Apollos 'motorcycle association', of which my father was a fine upstanding member). The bar wasn't listed.

I was eleven years old and had pretty much reached the limits of my ability to solve this problem, so I went to the counter to talk to the woman selling tickets. She was utterly worthless, and spent about half an hour going over the same phone book I'd already been through twice. I asked her to call directory assistance, and she just kept saying "Don't worry dear, we'll find it."

Eventually she went off shift, and the new woman not only knew the bar I was talking about she knew that it had just changed its name. We looked that up, I called, and had the bartender page my father.

He finally showed up at the station, completely drunk. He'd gone drinking with his buddies after the call to say I was on my way, and had forgotten about me.

Oh, and the Apollos were in the middle of a gang war. I spent most of the weekend indoors, being told to hide every time someone approached the house.

I've got lots of other stories like this, and so do my half siblings, but this is probably the best example of how irresponsible the man is.

[Dutch!]

Stuff he framed on his wall

So it's okay to threaten people for perceived slights, eh? Okay, five days was taking the line a few miles too far, but what else would you expect? Big over reaction on both sides.