less than 3 weeks till the US election

IVstudios · Post by **IVstudios** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:23 pm

Everyone knows i meant "raise" right? I'm not that heartless

!

Cope · Post by **Cope** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:27 pm

ivstudios wrote:
Lupand wrote: That's the problem ... the guy did the business, but the girl has to carry it, despite what your mpreg lemon slash might have been telling you.

--Sij
That

IVstudios · Post by **IVstudios** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:53 pm

Cope · Post by **Cope** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:00 pm

Well, he's always free to argue his case. But a woman's body is a temple, and it aint' necessarily democratic!

Isukiyomi · Post by **Isukiyomi** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:05 pm

And something that I think should be mentioned is culture. In the U.S today kids (and I do mean kids ages 10 & up) are having sex (and a good portion do this without protection) at younger ages, without understanding/caring about the consequences of their actions (pregnancy, transmission of STDs etc).

If an abortion results from an unwanted (how do we define unwanted?) pregnancy, is it fair to the fetus(or child whatever floats yer boat) that it should be born into a world where the parents can not provide for it and love it?

I have so much more to add, but I'm almost out of time. I'll chime in again later ^_^

IVstudios · Post by **IVstudios** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:13 pm

I think it's too complicated a subject to say anything definitely either way. But too many people talk about abortion as the solution to a problem without addressing the cause. I think that people should be talking less about abortion and more about abstinence.

Cope · Post by **Cope** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:24 pm

ivstudios wrote:But too many people talk about abortion as the solution to a problem without addressing the cause.

Really? Personally, I don't think an abortion debate needs to be qualified with a discussion of birth control.

I think that people should be talking less about abortion and more about abstinence.

I don't think abstinence will have any results of paramount significance without fundamental changes to the nature of western society. Condoms, the pill and so forth must remain at the forefront!

Also, I think there are plenty of people talking about abstinence.

Andronis · Post by **Andronis** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:25 pm

ivstudios wrote:I think it's too complicated a subject to say anything definitely either way. But too many people talk about abortion as the solution to a problem without addressing the cause. I think that people should be talking less about abortion and more about abstinence.

Right. Or at least contraception, although nothing is more effective than celibacy until you're ready to have children.

Andronis · Post by **Andronis** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:28 pm

Cope wrote: Great, suddenly I'm a demonic gorilla!

Ibor wasn't so particularly demonic as he was absolutely hillarious. See, he was the main assistant to the villain, but he never spoke on his own. He had a tv screen where his head would be, and had tank treads to move around with since he was a robotic video gorilla. What was funny was how Ibor communicated--using old television and film clips. When Botch said he was going to take off the gloves and get more serious, it played the old innuendo Gillette ad, "Take it off... take it all off!" Among other clips featured were Darth Vader, and right before Ibor exploded, a "That's all folks!" Looney Tunes clip.

Psiogen · Post by **Psiogen** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:31 pm

ivstudios wrote:I think it's too complicated a subject to say anything definitely either way. But too many people talk about abortion as the solution to a problem without addressing the cause. I think that people should be talking less about abortion and more about abstinence.

I've never heard of any pro-choice advocates who "talk about abortion as the solution to a problem without addressing the cause." I am strongly pro-choice, but I (and I think all of us) consider every abortion that happens to be a failure. But the way to end abortion is not to outlaw it, (which will just push it into the black market) it's through education.

Abstinence-based sex-ed is a nice idea, but it's been shown to increase, not decrease, teen pregnancy. In fact, the number of abortions has risen during Bush's term, after sinking throughout the 90's. Though this is probably even more because of the rise in poverty than the Republican attacks upon sex-ed.

If we really worked to keep kids educated and out of poverty, we could ensure that no one needed to have an abortion unless it was truly necessary.

Luprand · Post by **Luprand** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 8:52 pm

Cope wrote:Well, he's always free to argue his case. But a woman's body is a temple, and it aint' necessarily democratic!

That's what strikes me as odd. If a woman's body is her temple, then what sort of consequences should she expect when she treats it like a visitors' center?

--Sij

Cope · Post by **Cope** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:07 pm

Luprand wrote:
Cope wrote:Well, he's always free to argue his case. But a woman's body is a temple, and it aint' necessarily democratic!
If a woman's body is her temple, then what sort of consequences should she expect when she treats it like a visitors' center?

I hope this theoretical woman is making correct usage of contraception!

What are you saying, exactly? Sure, if a woman said:

"I slept about and got pregnant."

A logical reply might be:

"Well, what were you expecting?"

However, this has no relation to whether or not she should be allowed an abortion, unless one considers pregnancy to be an appropriate punishment. Which is a quite perverse concept, if I do say so myself.

Or maybe you were just making a joke and I'm being a verbose ass. The world may never know!

Alaina · Post by **Alaina** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:37 pm

wp wrote:
Alaina wrote:
BeefotronX wrote:War with China is something I really worry about.

Item 1: China wants Taiwan.
Item 2: China has threatened Taiwan when it said it would be getting a more complete government by 2008.
Item 3: Taiwan is allied with the USA
Item 4: China has a huge population from which to draw a huge army, facilitated by the male/female imbalance.
Item 5: We are lost if China cuts off its exports.
Item 6: A lot of people dislike us after the Iraq thing.
Well...America's not really allied with Taiwan anymore. It's got a new policy that says it'll support the country that is attacked first.
Um... I don't think Taiwan will be doing any attacking anytime soon. But what we *should* do is follow our supposed principles and support democracy (Taiwan) instead of worrying about economic problems. Unfortunately that will never happen.

I think Taiwan will be safe in the meanwhile since:
1) 2008 Olympics in China
2) US wants to have an eye in the Pacific against a potential threat

Pfft...as if the U.S. is really gonna endorse a country just because it's democratic when its opponent offers exports and wealth. Iraq was for the oil, not the prospect of democracy.

Just because Taiwan's not about to attack doesn't mean China is either. They've got just as much to lose.

Anyway, if it happens, I won't know who to root for because I've got relatives in both countries. I guess...Taiwan, because there was this reaaally good shrimp restaurant there. Then again, China's peking duck is amazing.....life is so hard.

Stucifer_the_maligned · Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:38 pm

we have a responsibility as a society to increase awareness for all causes. it is a woman's right to choose what she does with her own body. it is a man's right to choose what he does with his own body. if two people do things that make babies, it was their decision. you can be totally pro-life (abortion is WRONG! it kills babies!), and also be 100% pro-choice (a medical clinic is better than a coathanger).
i think that abstinence, contraception, and zero population growth should be emphasized more. in the meantime, don't let this one issue influence anything in your life besides whether or not you make a baby.

Luprand · Post by **Luprand** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:23 pm

Cope wrote:I hope this theoretical woman is making correct usage of contraception!

What are you saying, exactly? Sure, if a woman said:

"I slept about and got pregnant."

A logical reply might be:

"Well, what were you expecting?"

Clever pun

... I am seriously giggling here, and I think my roommate's wondering what's going on.

Cope wrote:However, this has no relation to whether or not she should be allowed an abortion, unless one considers pregnancy to be an appropriate punishment. Which is a quite perverse concept, if I do say so myself.

Or maybe you were just making a joke and I'm being a verbose ass. The world may never know!

I don't consider pregnancy to be a punishment; I consider it an amazing privilege and responsibility. And if you're not willing to serve a term in office, then you shouldn't put yourself on the ballot, if you'll allow such an odd parallel. Imagine someone saying, "Well, after nominating myself for Kabuki Club President, running a long, hard campaign, and winning the election, I've decided the job is nothing but an inconvenience and I no longer want it. So I'm hereby disbanding the club."

Of course I'm biased. I don't have the organs to ever put myself in a situation where I'd have an abortion. I just consider the family to be an important part of society, and one that's been getting torn to pieces in recent years - and maybe the lack of family support has been one reason for such loose morals of late. I'm afraid to think how much worse off I'd be without my parents ... and they're 2000 miles away and I can't hug 'em right now. Darn.

--Sij

Grabmygoblin · Post by **Grabmygoblin** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:26 pm

I'm a likkle inebriated right now, (God I love halloween) so it might be hard to follow what I'm saying.
so long as we are getting into moral issues and such, I just feel I should bring this up:
I often hear Christians tallk about how they are voting republican because democrats are pro-choice. thing is, republicans are about as anti-Christian as you can get. they destroy the world and the environment God created, they ignore the suffering of their fellow man so we can get a tax cut (most of the time for rich), don't care for elderly (social security), cut welfare, etc etc etc.

if I were a little more in my mind I would be able to back up the case better, but ah well.

don't let one issue like abortion be the reason why you vote a certian way. weigh all the issues, and decide if the candidate will be better for the country based upon that.

Post by **Mercury Hat** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:27 pm

The thought of getting pregnant scares me. I don't want kids at all.

And childbirth? NO THANKS.

It can tear you know. Sometimes they have to cut. Down there. Cut. Down there!

Y'all can have your "wonderful responsibility", I want no part of it!

Luprand · Post by **Luprand** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:33 pm

Mercury Hat wrote:Y'all can have your "wonderful responsibility", I want no part of it!

Sorry, that was just my opinion on the matter. And I'm kinda anti-ZPG in some ways, because if my parents had followed it, my brother and third sister wouldn't have been born, much less me (the youngest of 5 by 5 years).

--Sij

Grabmygoblin · Post by **Grabmygoblin** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:41 pm

Mercury_Hat wrote:The thought of getting pregnant scares me. I don't want kids at all.

And childbirth? NO THANKS.

It can tear you know. Sometimes they have to cut. Down there. Cut. Down there!

Y'all can have your "wonderful responsibility", I want no part of it!

[drunken hitting on M_H] y'know, lesbians don't have to worry about getting pregnant

[/drunken hitting on M_H]

Post by **Mercury Hat** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:43 pm

Oh, no, if people want to have kids that's cool by me.

I sound really selfish when I say I don't want kids because they're noisy, smell bad, and suck up all your food and money, so just pretend it's because of "overpopulation" or something.

I don't mind being around kids as long as I can send 'em home when I'm sick of 'em.

And as for the zero population growth thing, yeah, the US is slowing down like most developed countries, but remember we still have a lot of people. I don't see how it's a huge problem.

Edit! Sorry, Goblin, I'm happy with War. 3500+ miles is birth control enough for us!

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less than 3 weeks till the US election

kerry, bush, or other?