Philosophy... in SPACE!

[Aster Azul]

<_<
>_>

I just felt like making a topic again. For old times sake. In this topic I'm just going to talk until I don't feel like talking anymore.

Feel free to like, post philosophy and stuff.

Recently I've been working at Camp Costonoan. It's this crazy little camp for disabled kids in California. It's a great place and really fun. It gives me faith in humanity to know that even the most delayed, mute, and deformed child just wants a hug. Evil truly must be the mere shadow of good, a perversion of good but still composed of the same essence. The people I work with there are also really cool. Everyone has so much character and vitality. It's amazing, in it's own way. So many awakened souls in one place, people who have fire in their eyes and dreams in their minds.
Unfortunately the pay is terrible. I got 200 dollars for working there two weeks. It's not even minumum wage! The job is 24/6, for crying out loud! How can they only pay people 200 dollars for it? It's ridiculous. It's not even funny. Worse (and this sounds really lame coming from someone as old as I am) I'm going to have to quit so that I can go back home and take care of my two brothers. My parents were mortified when I mentioned how little I was paid, and they basically "or else"-ed me into quitting.
Geez, I've got to grow a spine. Why should I quit if it's something I want to do? The guilt trips are hard to shake, though. I'll get one of those huge teary lectures. *sigh* It's difficult to argue with people who help me pay for college.
Anyway, I've met enough gold-hearted women to keep me occupied for a while. Who knows? Maybe something will work out this time and I can get over my best friend... Ack! I'm starting to sound like a blogger! Stop, stop!

I'd also like to say that you guys are all awesome. Especially M^2. It's just crazy that you're willing to put so much time and effort into being nice to us down here in the forum. Keep it up.

So how are all you forumites doing? Levi, Kolter, M, BEC, Leko, Risky, and all of those people I should have listed and are going to be sad that they weren't in the following line? Talk to me down here! It's lonely!

[Nutcracker]

Maybe someone from that list talks to you. *turns away* Hmpf.

[Rkolter]

I'd have to disagree with you about evil. I think that it's quite strong enough and in no way a shadow of good. Look at what you're doing - you're working for little pay to help the disadvantaged enjoy themselves. At least in our society that pretty much rings of doing a good deed. In other words, you're biased.

If you want examples of evil that are just as big, I can cull a dozen out of the local newspaper. Now granted, the media looks for the worst because it makes the best news. Despite that, it DOES show that there is quite a bit of evil out there, and it's not laboring in the shadow of good.

Personally, I have faith that humanity will eventually destroy itself, and very little faith that lasting peace is part of our future.

That said, $100 a week isn't enough to live on. And while your parents are paying for your college, they have literally purchased the right to interfere in your life, at least to a point.

Here's a question though, if you want to argue your point back - are you paying rent? Paying for food? Utilities? Entertainment? If not, $100 a week isn't quite so bad.

::EDIT:: Please make this the last philosophy thread you open. They never end up leading to anything good.

[Dr Legostar]

In (keen)space, no one can hear you philosiphize.


or no one wants to, i forget.

[Sput]

Maybe someone from that list talks to you. *turns away* Hmpf.

In (keen)space, no one can hear you philosiphize.


or no one wants to, i forget.

humph.

[Shinyhugh]

Personally, I have faith that humanity will eventually destroy itself, and very little faith that lasting peace is part of our future.

Yep, laws of nature isn't it? There's already lots and lots of starving people, & if we keep them alive there will eventually be more than that. And if we keep making more people there will be the same. Population culling time, isn't it? Not that we have to consciously do it, it'll happen anyway.

Following on from that (this is just some stuff I want to say somewhere to both get it off my chest & get it straight in my mind (does anyone else find that writing stuff down helps sort it out & order it? I'm sure you do. If not you're weird ) and since this is a philosophy thread it's probably the best place for it). Looking at it this is gonna get quite long and I'm gonna kill any illusions people may have had (but probably didn't) of my being a nice person...

I despise it when people consider anything we humans do as "not part of nature" (ok "unnatural" is a better phrase ). We are animals.

Nature is defined as such:

1 The material world and its phenomena.
2 The forces and processes that produce and control all the phenomena of the material world: the laws of nature.

There are a few more which include "The world of living things and the outdoors". And some other crap. I want to believe that people are referring to this definition when using such phrases as above, but I don't think they are. They really mean that we are doing things that we shouldn't, that seperate us from the rest of the planets processes & functions (for want of better words).

Now even if we were not animals (ok classification issue, I don't care particularly, we are us and nothing more or less, what you wanna call it is your business) we are still part of the world (quite goddamned obviously) and everything we do is part of our nature.

Other animals use tools. Birds build nests to live in & sometimes do drazy stuff with wire to get food. Dogs eat stones to keep their teeth sharp. It's simple interaction with the environment. I have never heard anyone call that unnatural. We do the same, to a greater extent. We create our tools from what is around us, use other tools to create better tools, etc. Somewhere along the line this becomes "unnatural" in people's eyes. I'm not sure exactly where.

Another thing I've heard is that we modify our environment & this seperates us from animals. I've already said that birds build nests, I hope that counts as a start on refuting that argument. Now let's go see where we go from there...

Well let's start on how we define "modifying our environment". Obviously by breathing we are constantly doing so, exchanging oxygen for carbon dioxide, but most all other animals do so it mustn't count. So let's scale it up a step. Killing or modifying germs around us? Nope, other animals do that too. Up a step. What's up a step? The stuff we can see. So, changing stuff we can see, the terrain around us, is an unnatural deed. But, well, birds build nests, beavers build dams, rabbits & badgers dig holes, foxes & wolves have dens... Trees kill undergrowth around them when they grow thickly. Weeds suck the nutrients from the soil so other plants die. There's probably more than I can't think of (hey I don't know *every*thing (yet)) too. In fact there's a few more examples of this here which I just found.

K so it's not modifying the environment that's an unnatural deed as far as I can see. Lets go through some other things that come to mind as things I have heard or might have imagined I heard. Language? Nope, lots of other animals have languages of some form or another. Err having more food than we need? Nope other animals seem to do this too (search for animal hoard food in google for lots more).

I dunno. I give up. Questing for knowledge seems to be the only thing that would seperate us from animals (but animals do seem to be very curious, and they obviously learn things), or passing down knowledge to our children (and don't animals teach their young to hunt and stuff like that?).

Seriously if anyone can specifically tell me what makes things such as nuclear reactors & bulldozing rainforests & all the sorta stuff that people tend to class as "crimes against nature" really crimes against nature, keeping in mind that everything we do is part of our behaviour as a human and that by being human we are a part of nature, I'd be very happy to hear it. Because I just don't get it.

*bows or something*

[VileTerror]

* places balled fists at the side of its head, extends the index fingers of each as if they were oversized ears, and perks up its head *

Did someone say "evil"?

[Sortelli]

Come, let us evil dance.

[VileTerror]

Ok.

* dances evil with Sortelli *





Wow . . . this is sorta nice . . . <small>I feel so self-deprecating . . .</small>

[Risky]

Did someone call me?

Oh, Aster. Where you been, babe? The Pirate Jam has floundered!

Camping? Typical. Get off your lazy arse and draw something. Not with your arse, with your hand! And a pencil.

Oh, er, philosophy? Good is that which benefits yourself and others without corrupting their spirits, hearts, or minds. Evil is that which corrupts, tempts away from good, destroys and harms. I have no idea what that has anything to do with your post. Why did you bring it up?

[PieceOfSkunk]

Come, let us evil dance.

*does the Macarena*

[Rkolter]

Ok.

* dances evil with Sortelli *





Wow . . . this is sorta nice . . . <small>I feel so self-deprecating . . .</small>

Mind if I cut in?

[Gengar003]

Seriously if anyone can specifically tell me what makes things such as nuclear reactors & bulldozing rainforests & all the sorta stuff that people tend to class as "crimes against nature" really crimes against nature, keeping in mind that everything we do is part of our behaviour as a human and that by being human we are a part of nature, I'd be very happy to hear it. Because I just don't get it.

*bows or something*

That was excellent

Now, on to the specific issue? Human nature, of course. I think a large part of it comes from a sense of responsibility some people have for things that they percieve as natural. For starters, nothing any of the people who feel this way see is likely to be "natural" anymore, so their whole perception is a farce. But anyway.

People have a natural parental instinct, I think. Nature gave us this to protect our young and thus continue the species. People who have no human target for this desire to protect turn to plants, animals, and the environment. People who have many, many human targets grow so accustomed to this feeling, that they extend it to plants, animals, and the environment.

Thus, people end up feeling responsible for keeping things that they (falsely) percieve as natural. That's the first part.

Now, you make an excellent point (and one that I believe in and support) when you point out that humans are natural beings, animals just like anything else, that modify our environment just as any other animals do.

For some reason, though, humans consider themselves different. This is probably almost entirely due to the fact that humans can communicate clearly with each other, but not with any other species. We have a language. We also look different, and are the dominant species. Humans think of themselves as somehow apart from the rest of the planet, as if we were visitors set down here, and not something that came from it and will eventually disappear into it. (which is my belief. Some religions would beg to differ, but that's not what this thread is about [yet])

Thus, humans see anything they do or something done by other humans as something foreign to this planet, something that wouldn't be here if they weren't. And that's true; it wouldn't. But, like the beavers, the dams wouldn't be here, EITHER, if it weren't for them. Humans and their creations are NOT something foreign, they are something PART of this planet.

So, we have humans feeling responsible for keeping things as they think said things would have been without human interference. Humans get a target for their paternal feelings, and tell their consciences that they are doing their part to keep the planet "as it was" "before" they "messed with it." In turn, this makes them feel superior, which everyone likes. People speaking out complaining about "unnatural" things being done to the environment are getting a mild high off playing God for whatever they're "protecting," thus reaffirming their belief that they are "separate" from the rest of life on this earth.

That is why things are dubbed "crimes against nature:" people feel a (well-meant) desire to protect our planet. However, their perception of what is "natural" is skewed, so they mislabel natural events as "crimes against nature."

-[but!]-

This is not to say that we are free to build nuclear power plants and dump the waste all over, trash the rainforests for farmland, firewood, and building material, and burn off millions of years worth of oil into the atmosphere to satisfy our "economy." Humans are a part, a natural part of this planet, which means that, should we trash its ecosystems, we will NOT be miraculously spared. True, we need not feel guilty about "desecrating" some new planet we were "put" on, but we do need to be careful with it. You wouldn't start a bonfire and let dogs shit in your house; dont' let the equivalent happen to your planet. 'Cause you can always buy a new house, car, or computer if yours is busted. But (for now at least), we've only got one chance with our planet.

In a way, then, these "crimes against nature" people are right. Innumerable practices today are irresponsible and unsustainable. Things need to change, but the short-sighted naked apes don't want to admit that they might have been doing things wrong. Hopefully, they will admit it before their house turns into a raging inferno of nuclear waste and dog shit.

8)

[Hank]

Nature has been out to get us from day one. It's about time we fought back.

[Gengar003]

We are nature.

Given that, humanity's wwaaaaaay ahead of you. Probably been killing each other since day 1, definitely been killing each other for the past 2000-3000 years.

[Dr Legostar]

Ok.

* dances evil with Sortelli *





Wow . . . this is sorta nice . . . <small>I feel so self-deprecating . . .</small>

Mind if I cut in?

::dances evil all by himself::

[Shinyhugh]

That is why things are dubbed "crimes against nature:" people feel a (well-meant) desire to protect our planet. However, their perception of what is "natural" is skewed, so they mislabel natural events as "crimes against nature."

Ah ha I sees now.

In a way, then, these "crimes against nature" people are right. Innumerable practices today are irresponsible and unsustainable. Things need to change, but the short-sighted naked apes don't want to admit that they might have been doing things wrong.

Hmm interesting I suppose they are crimes against nature in a way - they're crimes against ourselves & we are part of nature. You makes good sense!

(Would write longer reply but I'm going out now soooo maybe later...)

[Rkolter]

Ok.

* dances evil with Sortelli *





Wow . . . this is sorta nice . . . <small>I feel so self-deprecating . . .</small>

Mind if I cut in?

::dances evil all by himself::

Wow, you dance evil quite well. *emulates*

[Dr Legostar]

Mind if I cut in?

::dances evil all by himself::

Wow, you dance evil quite well. *emulates*

Well I am evil and i dance, so it's only natural.

[Rkolter]

::dances evil all by himself::

Wow, you dance evil quite well. *emulates*

Well I am evil and i dance, so it's only natural.

It doesn't always work like that. I like butter and I like milk, but buttermilk tastes horrible.