US political nonsense

[Ahaugen]

the only difference between socialized health insurance and the private cartel we have now is that the government CAN'T deny you surgeries and treatments.

[Jesusabdullah]

yah, looks like McCain is gonna be the nominee. against Obama, he was and is the only one I think stands a chance. against Clinton, he will win.

everything is still up in the air for the democratic nomination. the Clintons just injected at least 5 million of their own money into the campaign... I'm thinking about sending another 20 bucks Obama's way.

Go Obama.

Vaguely related: I dreamed last night that I was making robots to flood the caucuses and vote for Obama so that he'd win the nomination, and that I was stuck on the AI part (y'know, so that they'd be believable as people). Obama showed up and was like, "This isn't gonna work." "Sure it will!" I replied. "I have a checklist!" I showed him the checklist. "All I have to do is implement this Markov chain algorithm!"

Oh, if only that were both possible and ethical? Not that I'd want to be the one making the robots.

the only difference between socialized health insurance and the private cartel we have now is that the government CAN'T deny you surgeries and treatments.

This is the one thing that makes me question the conventional wisdom here that socialized health care is a bad thing.

[Grabmygoblin]

Lieberman stripped of his superdelegate status

does anyone mind if I just take a minute to vomit all over the superdelegate system? anything which gives idiot NY State politicians more corrupt powers...

[Yeahduff]

No, you go right ahead. Take two minutes. Perhaps I'll join you.

[BeefotronX]

the only difference between socialized health insurance and the private cartel we have now is that the government CAN'T deny you surgeries and treatments.

This is the one thing that makes me question the conventional wisdom here that socialized health care is a bad thing.

Who says they can't deny treatments?

New Zealand now denies visas to people who are deemed obese, on the rationale that they would be a drain on the resources of their national health service.

I think you can figure out where that's headed.

[Ahaugen]

the only difference between socialized health insurance and the private cartel we have now is that the government CAN'T deny you surgeries and treatments.

This is the one thing that makes me question the conventional wisdom here that socialized health care is a bad thing.

Who says they can't deny treatments?

New Zealand now denies visas to people who are deemed obese, on the rationale that they would be a drain on the resources of their national health service.

I think you can figure out where that's headed.

so ... fat people can't get into New Zealand? that's an Immigration issue, not healthcare

EDIT: besides, that's not denial of care, that's denying entry into the country, we in America deny entry to people for less than obesity

[Nanda]

New Zealand now denies visas to people who are deemed obese, on the rationale that they would be a drain on the resources of their national health service.

*Head explodes from overload of rage*

[Jesusabdullah]

This is the one thing that makes me question the conventional wisdom here that socialized health care is a bad thing.

Who says they can't deny treatments?

New Zealand now denies visas to people who are deemed obese, on the rationale that they would be a drain on the resources of their national health service.

I think you can figure out where that's headed.

so ... fat people can't get into New Zealand? that's an Immigration issue, not healthcare

EDIT: besides, that's not denial of care, that's denying entry into the country, we in America deny entry to people for less than obesity

I agree...mostly. Yeah, I mean, you could deny health care to your citizens as a government, but if you're gonna do that, what's the point? Plus, that'd be unethical. In fact, it's unethical for hospitals too, but it's not like they have a choice sometimes, since they're businesses and not public services.

[KWill]

And holy shit, it seems Beef's guy is gone.

OK, it was a bit obscure.

Hey, I caught it...

[Legion of Boom]

the only difference between socialized health insurance and the private cartel we have now is that the government CAN'T deny you surgeries and treatments.

Umm....half wrong. If you are in the borders of the U.S. and have a medical emergency, you will be rushed in an ambulance to the nearest hospital and be treated. Doesn't matter if you have health insurance, US citizenship or here illegally. When the dust settles, that's when the mountain of paperwork and troubles begin. But the basic premise of a hospital in this country still remains. They make their money from insurance claims, but they still treat anyone that bleeds. Preventive care and non-emergency treatment? Notsomuch.

[KWill]

the only difference between socialized health insurance and the private cartel we have now is that the government CAN'T deny you surgeries and treatments.

Umm....half wrong. If you are in the borders of the U.S. and have a medical emergency, you will be rushed in an ambulance to the nearest hospital and be treated. Doesn't matter if you have health insurance, US citizenship or here illegally. When the dust settles, that's when the mountain of paperwork and troubles begin. But the basic premise of a hospital in this country still remains. They make their money from insurance claims, but they still treat anyone that bleeds. Preventive care and non-emergency treatment? Notsomuch.

So they could deny you for terminal cancer if you can't pay, so long as it isn't an accute emergency?

[Yeahduff]

And holy shit, it seems Beef's guy is gone.

OK, it was a bit obscure.

Hey, I caught it...

And thus I assumed everyone else did. Alas.

[Rkolter]

the only difference between socialized health insurance and the private cartel we have now is that the government CAN'T deny you surgeries and treatments.

Umm....half wrong. If you are in the borders of the U.S. and have a medical emergency, you will be rushed in an ambulance to the nearest hospital and be treated. Doesn't matter if you have health insurance, US citizenship or here illegally. When the dust settles, that's when the mountain of paperwork and troubles begin. But the basic premise of a hospital in this country still remains. They make their money from insurance claims, but they still treat anyone that bleeds. Preventive care and non-emergency treatment? Notsomuch.

So they could deny you for terminal cancer if you can't pay, so long as it isn't an accute emergency?

Well yeah. If you have terminal cancer, are you expecting the hospital to cure you? It's Terminal.

Better example would be a person with failing kidneys. A hospital would not offer free preventative treatment, or free medicines, or free follow-up visits. But if you went into kidney failure, you could be rushed into the hospital where you'd be treated until you were stabilized again.

[Legion of Boom]

Well yeah. If you have terminal cancer, are you expecting the hospital to cure you? It's Terminal.

Better example would be a person with failing kidneys. A hospital would not offer free preventative treatment, or free medicines, or free follow-up visits. But if you went into kidney failure, you could be rushed into the hospital where you'd be treated until you were stabilized again.

In a nutshell.

[KWill]

Well yeah. If you have terminal cancer, are you expecting the hospital to cure you? It's Terminal.

Not necessarily cure, but treat.

[Jesusabdullah]

Medical marijuana? Oh wait

[Rkolter]

Well yeah. If you have terminal cancer, are you expecting the hospital to cure you? It's Terminal.

Not necessarily cure, but treat.

You don't treat terminal cancer. There's no treatment, once it's known to be terminal. I'm not sure you realize how devestating and painful even the best of cancer treatments can be. To put a terminal patient through that is ethically wrong, and is only done if the patient absolutely insists and can pay - even insurance won't pay to treat your cancer, if it's recognized it's not treatable.

Instead, a patient with terminal cancer will need treatment designed not to prolong life, but to make the remaining time as comfortable as possible. That's hospice, and it's expensive. A hospital will not pay for that treatment for a non-insured person.

There are however, non-profit agencies that do this work. My father is a nurse for one of them. They get donations in, and then charge only what the family can pay. Unfortunately, there aren't a whole lot of these agencies.

[Grabmygoblin]

Medical marijuana? Oh wait

an aside, I totally think Obama will legalize pot given 8 years.

Clinton would try at least once to take away our video games.

[Yeahduff]

Obama kicked some ass yesterday. But in reality, at this point, it doesn't look like either him nor Clinton will get a majority of delegates. It'll come down to superdelegates, and it's gonna be painful.

Huckabee actually looking like a more likely VP candidate. Still think it a terrible idea (strategically, I mean, obviously someone who holds the bible over the constitution shouldn't be in government at all), but more and more buzz is generating around the idea. Guess I owe Boom an apology.

[MixedMyth]

I suspect it will all be decided at the convention, which apparently used to be the norm.