Computer upgrade recommendations

Dburkhead · Post by **Dburkhead** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:27 pm

I've been giving some serious thought to upgrading my home computer's MB/Processor/Memory combo. My computer currently runs a Celeron 2.4GHz processor with 768 MB of memory.

I've got the EIDI drives maxed out (3 hard disks and one DVD writer) plus all the slots are occupied (AGP Video card, and PCI Firewire card, second parallel port card, and network card).

My main motivation is working in big, multi-layer graphics (intermediate steps for my webcomic generally). I work at 3000X4500 pixels with a minimum of six layers and reduce for the web. I'd like to work at twice that which would conform to the highest resolution my scanner supports for the original lineart. However, I don't have an unlimited budget either.

Ideally, I'd like to just drop the motherboard into the case (ATX form factor, I believe), plug in the drives and those cards that I still need (which may just be the firewire card since a lot of motherboards have both decent video, onboard network, and I don't use the second parallel port anymore). Let W2K do it's "found new hardware" thing, and get up and running with a minimum of fuss. I may also want to add a graphics tablet at some time.

Buying/building a complete new computer, with new software, is not an option (so please don't bother with Mac recommendations or the like).

Any recommendations on motherboard/processor/memory combos to meet those needs?

Jeffy · Post by **Jeffy** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:58 pm

As for motherboards, my favorite is Abit, with Asus coming in 2nd (even though I opted for an Asus MB for my new computer). For processor actions, AMD is the way to go, cheaper, faster and runs cooler than Intel, as log as you get the newer stuff. The dual core processors, which would be good for what you're looking to do, are cheaper than Intel dual cores, if you wanted to go with that.

From the resolution it sounds like you're asking for, (double what you're running now if I read that right) you're going to need a mad beefy video card, if you don't have one already, but I assume it's mildly older since it's AGP. Also don't know what monitor you're running to support those kinds of resolutions. One option would be to run a dual monitor setup with a good video card.

For memory, I like Geil the most, but Mushkin, OCZ, Corsair and a few others are top quality memory makers. Depending on how crazy you want to get, you may notice a difference going from CAS latency 2.5 or 3 RAM to CAS latency 2. Most memory comes in flavors higher than 2.5, and the lower you go the faster your processing will be, but more expensive. For instance, you can have 2 sticks of Kingston PC3200 DDR RAM, but both have different CAS, the one with the higher CAS being slower and cheaper.

You may not be so lucky as to just drop in a new motherboard/cpu/memory combo and go, as XP sometimes doesn't like being forced to recognize a new motherboard and will need a reinstall to work correctly. But, motherboard/cpu combos are sold online, most easily found thru PriceWatch.com, and memory is generally good to go no matter what brand it is as long as you get something compatible with the motherboard.

If you feel like it, shoot me a PM on what specifically you're looking to upgrade and do with the computer and what you're willing to upgrade, as upgrading certain parts may force the upgrade of others, like the CPU fan. I mind not at all putting together some options for you, since it entertains me. Would do it now but in about 3 minutes it's time for the gym and then possibly sleeping.

Dburkhead · Post by **Dburkhead** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:20 pm

I don't run Windows XP. I didn't like "XP Phone Home" when it came out, and I don't like it today I run W2K, which I have been quite happy with since it came out.

Thereforeiam · Post by **Thereforeiam** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:45 pm

Um...... I use a Mac. Damned if I know how to upgrde anything. My upgrade was tossing my crappy old Windows machine for my Mac mini.

I have definitely heard good things about AMD, though. Good.

RemusShepherd · Post by **RemusShepherd** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:30 pm

Jeffy wrote:For processor actions, AMD is the way to go, cheaper, faster and runs cooler than Intel, as log as you get the newer stuff.

I have an Athlon XP 2100 with an Asus motherboard -- *not* overclocked -- and overheating is my main problem. It's probably because there's so much dog hair and dust in my house that it clogs the fans.

I'm thinking of upgrading soon, myself -- the entire computer, except for the relatively recent graphics card (GeForce 7800 GS). But I was going to avoid AMD because of the heating problems. They solved that problem, you say?

Incidentally, I have 1.5 Gig of RAM and for my comic I work on images that are 2400x3200 pixels with dozens of layers. That's 4 times the finished size, 300 dpi if printed at 8x10 1/2 inches, and seems to work fine.

Jeffy · Post by **Jeffy** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:22 pm

dburkhead wrote:I don't run Windows XP. I didn't like "XP Phone Home" when it came out, and I don't like it today I run W2K, which I have been quite happy with since it came out.

Windows 2000 pretty much is just an early version of Windows XP, mostly visual and performance upgrades being the difference between the two. Same problem may be run into with 2k. Switching out a processor or memory wouldn't cause any troubles, but different motherboards run systems differently, and sometimes can cause troubles if not running a fresh Windows install.

RemusShepherd wrote:I have an Athlon XP 2100 with an Asus motherboard -- *not* overclocked -- and overheating is my main problem. It's probably because there's so much dog hair and dust in my house that it clogs the fans.

I'm thinking of upgrading soon, myself -- the entire computer, except for the relatively recent graphics card (GeForce 7800 GS). But I was going to avoid AMD because of the heating problems. They solved that problem, you say?

Incidentally, I have 1.5 Gig of RAM and for my comic I work on images that are 2400x3200 pixels with dozens of layers. That's 4 times the finished size, 300 dpi if printed at 8x10 1/2 inches, and seems to work fine.

Indeed, the Athlon XP's ran relatively hot, especially if using the stock cooling fan (as opposed to buying a better one like Coolermaster, Vantec, Thermalright, etc...) compared to the Intel processors. The XP's were still my choice over Intel since I always got a better than stock fan, which solved the heat problem (I don't overclock either), run faster at stock speeds (hence the naming convention, Athlon XP 2100+ being about as fast as a P4 2.1 Ghz processor even though the AMD was actually clocked at 1.7Ghz) and are cheaper.

But they fixed that problem with the Athlon 64's and, even though they are a lot faster than the XP's, they run a lot cooler. The 64's also run cooler, are faster and more stable than the current camparable Intel processors, without even tossing in that they are still cheaper.

I've been using AMD since our first non-Apple computer, processor was an AMD K-6 100 Mhz. The guy that sold us the computer schooled me then on the advantages of AMD, which I had never heard of before, and thru research every time I upgrade, there has never been a reason for me to switch to Pentium over AMD.

Feel free to ask any more questions, it's nice to talk about something I actually know about once in a while.

Nyke · Post by **Nyke** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:23 am

Jeffy wrote:Indeed, the Athlon XP's ran relatively hot, especially if using the stock cooling fan (as opposed to buying a better one like Coolermaster, Vantec, Thermalright, etc...)

You mean, there are better fans? Do you know any available for laptops?

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:13 am

You may want to consider a peacemeal upgrade. Instead of getting a new motherboard, faster ram, a new processor, and a new video card, see what just a new video card will do for you - since you don't need the second serial card anymore, you do have a pci slot available.

As for not buying a new computer... you basically are already. I wouldn't limit yourself to formfit ATX motherboards - if you're really wanting to upgrade everything right now, then get yourself a barebones system with a motherboard and processor, then buy the memory and video, and transfer everything else over. That'll save you some work, and give you a stripped but still viable second system.

Jeffy · Post by **Jeffy** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:11 am

DarkMagician wrote:
Jeffy wrote:Indeed, the Athlon XP's ran relatively hot, especially if using the stock cooling fan (as opposed to buying a better one like Coolermaster, Vantec, Thermalright, etc...)
You mean, there are better fans? Do you know any available for laptops?

Only real way to add cooling to a laptop is to get one of those goofy fan plates that you set the laptop on top of, and they blow up into the laptop. If a laptop is having trouble with overheating, the only real solution (aside from attempting to blow dirtyness out of it) is to send it in to try and find out what's wrong with it.

Usually it's a faulty fan, since laptops are built with adequate cooling to begin with. Otherwise, if nothing mechanically is wrong with the laptop, unless you're obstructing the airflow to the fan intakes, it really shouldn't be overheating.

I also agree with rkolter on the idea of buying a barebones system, much easier for someone who doesn't want to have to assemble the computer themselves, which it sounds like you don't. But, if you do end up doing so (assembling computer yourself), don't forget the thermal paste.

Cortland · Post by **Cortland** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:37 am

thereforeiam wrote:Um...... I use a Mac. Damned if I know how to upgrde anything. My upgrade was tossing my crappy old Windows machine for my Mac mini.

Dburkhead · Post by **Dburkhead** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:46 am

rkolter wrote:You may want to consider a peacemeal upgrade. Instead of getting a new motherboard, faster ram, a new processor, and a new video card, see what just a new video card will do for you - since you don't need the second serial card anymore, you do have a pci slot available.

As for not buying a new computer... you basically are already. I wouldn't limit yourself to formfit ATX motherboards - if you're really wanting to upgrade everything right now, then get yourself a barebones system with a motherboard and processor, then buy the memory and video, and transfer everything else over. That'll save you some work, and give you a stripped but still viable second system.

That's what I did with my last upgrade (bought a barebones sytem and transferred stuff over).

I really think the long pole in the tent (as it were) is the amount of memory and the FSB speed. The process times when I go do something "global" (like change a layer's properties) or add a layer is annoying. But then, fully uncompressed (as it would be for editing), a 3000X4500 pixel image with 24 bit color would take up close to 40 megabytes per layer.

I thought about just a memory upgrade, but my two-year-old daughter got hold of the motherboard spec sheet that came with the computer and I can't find a model number on the board to Google. Last time I tried to buy memory it failed. Computer wouldn't boot up at all. Apparently I was wrong about what memory worked in the computer, so without spending a lot of money trying different things, I just don't see how to do that.

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:21 am

Tell us the model and maker of your motherboard and we can tell you the kind of memory you need.

Dburkhead · Post by **Dburkhead** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:38 am

rkolter wrote:Tell us the model and maker of your motherboard and we can tell you the kind of memory you need.

I can't find a model number on the board

That information is probably buried down where I can't see it for the shadows.

Might go with a barebones system since all that adds to what I was already thinking, really, is a case.
At least that way I can be sure that the components work together.

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:51 am

dburkhead wrote:
rkolter wrote:Tell us the model and maker of your motherboard and we can tell you the kind of memory you need.

I can't find a model number on the board

D'oh.

War · Post by **War** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:18 am

The celeron is a really weak processor anyway. In 4 days time the price of current AMD processors is going to be dropping, a lot (the Core 2 Duo gets released at the same time, which is why AMD are dropping their prices).

If you want maximum future proofing you'll want either the AM2 socket or an Intel socket 775.
Onboard video is always terrible compared to real video cards. However it's not like the old days where a motherboard with onboard video won't have an AGP or so forth.
Something like one of the budget AM2 boards will do fine, and if you decide you want to start playing the latest games, you can just drop a PCI Express vid card into it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813138027

Drop in a processor.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819103633

Since you're not after raw performance for things like games, you can go for slower ram:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820144157
If you want faster ram, the price is obviously going to be more.

The Core 2 Duos are fast though, they'll start at $183.

The downside is that Windows really doesn't like new motherboards.
During the original windows installation Windows will have chosen drivers that work best with the hardware it's being installed on. Most people install manufacturers drivers once the installation is complete because these work better than the ones windows initially uses. When you put a new motherboard in, odds are that the drivers that windows is using won't work for the new hardware.
You can run sysprep, or windows repair. These'll both get your system running again without a reformat. But in my experience it'll break other programs. When I've tried a hardware change without a reformat in the past, I've always ended up reformating anyway.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/do ... efault.asp

Jeffy · Post by **Jeffy** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:56 am

Another thing to check is to make sure you don't have a lot of crap running in the backgrond, slowing down the computer. There's a chance that if you do, and turn off the unnecesary garbage, you may not need a processor/motherboard/memory upgrade.

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:40 am

Jeffy makes a good point - by cleaning up your run entries in the registry and by pulling excess stuff from your startup menu, you can often get up to 10% of your resources back.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with editing your registry, so this may be too simple or too complex, but...

Start - Run - Regedit

This pulls up the registry editing window. Drill down to:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Softare/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion/Run

And check out what is in there. Each line is an application that is being kicked off when you personally (as opposed to another user) logs into the computer.

Then drill down to:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/Software/Microsoft/Windows/CurrentVersion/Run

And check out what is in there. There may be quite a bit. These are applications kicked off by the system when anyone logs in.

Some of them are necessary - utilities you find useful, utilities installed by your computer's manufacturer, etcetera. Some aren't so useful. Like the realplayer loader, or quicktime's loader.

The standard caution ensues - don't do this if you aren't confident you can recover your computer if you screw it up.

Jeffy · Post by **Jeffy** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:28 am

also check MSCONFIG

In 2000, there is no MSCONFIG, but you can download the file for 2000, put it in the System32 folder (I think) and be good to go.

Dburkhead · Post by **Dburkhead** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:11 pm

Just opened up the computer and dug in to see what the MB was. It's an AOpen MX46-533V.

Looking that up online looks like I can have up to 2 GB of PC2700 memory (in two sticks) and any P4/Celeron processor that fits a socket 478 and supports a 533 MHz FSB.

So the main options seem to be to upgrade memory and possibly processor (just over $300 for both) or to go with a processor/memory/MB combo (Athlon dual core, with 2 GB of PC3200 memory in an appropriate MB) at about $700.

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:54 pm

Hold off on the dual core - quad cores are just around the corner.