Inking issues

Dburkhead · Post by **Dburkhead** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:44 pm

Hoping I can get some help here.

In my latest piece (update on my comic scheduled for next Wednesday), I was getting significant bleeding as I was inking the page.

I'm using Bienfang Smooth Surface Drawing Bristol Board--11X17 cut down from 14X17, a Hunt 108 Crowquill pen, and Koh-i-noor Universal Ink "Black India" cut between 1/3 and 1/2 with water.

My previous pen nib was getting very hard to "start" whenever I wanted to draw a line. I thought maybe the ink was too thick so I cut it with water and had the same problem. Then I got a fresh nib, washed it to remove any oils, let it air dry, then used it instead of the old one. It worked splendidly but after a short time I noticed the ink bleeding into the paper, making these little fractal patterns along the edges of my lines that under some circumstances would have been cute, but were a decided pain when I was trying to get clean lines for scanning and coloring.

So where do I look for my problem: pen, ink, paper, or the nut that holds the pen?

More importantly, what do I do about it?

Jackhass · Post by **Jackhass** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:22 am

I'd say the culprit is the watered down ink...just go with straight ink without cutting it with water.

Allan_ecker · Post by **Allan_ecker** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:59 pm

I'm a brush man meself but I hear tell that fresh nibs need to have a match lit under 'em to burn off the sealants and chemicals.

When it comes to brushwork thus far I've found that ink bleeds if you have too much ink on the brush, but unfortunately it also wusses out on you if you don't have enough. Very annoying sometimes...

ChaosBurnFlame · Post by **ChaosBurnFlame** » Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:13 pm

Well, my mentor's tips may help... He was an old inker for Marvel back in the 70's, so one would guess he knows what he's talking about.

The first thing he told me when I first experimented with inking is a crow quill is only good for really really tiny fine detail, like a belt buckle.

A brush is the way to go for that traditional american inking feel(Windsor Newton Series 7 size 2 is the size he and Wally Wood used... I use a size 0).

Also, don't use water with India Ink!

If you wish to thin the ink, use ammonia, and if then, only tiny amounts of it.

Dburkhead · Post by **Dburkhead** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:35 pm

I resurrected this and retitled it rather than starting a fresh thread.

My latest problem is the pen "stopping." I'll get one, maybe two, pages out of the pen (crowquill hunt 108 is what I use) and then it will stop working well. It will be hard to get ink flow started and when it does start, flow will stop without warning even though the pen is still full of ink. I've tried a variety of different regimes for cleaning but the only thing that works consistently is not cleaning at all--it's tossing the tip and putting in a new one.

Incidentally, although I experimented with a brush for a while, I went back to pen for most of my inking simply because I don't have the control to use a brush effectively. I'm working on that control using some drills I drew from Gary Martin's The Art of Comic Book Inking--basically repeating sets of lines over and over and then over some more. For the present, I am trying to make the lines close, parallel, even, and as thin as I can while using the recommended technique (from several sources) of freezing fingers and wrist, and moving from the elbow and shoulder. This illustrates why I don't use either a brush or that "from the shoulder" technique in my comic at the moment:

ChaosBurnFlame · Post by **ChaosBurnFlame** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:37 pm

dburkhead wrote:I resurrected this and retitled it rather than starting a fresh thread.

My latest problem is the pen "stopping." I'll get one, maybe two, pages out of the pen (crowquill hunt 108 is what I use) and then it will stop working well. It will be hard to get ink flow started and when it does start, flow will stop without warning even though the pen is still full of ink. I've tried a variety of different regimes for cleaning but the only thing that works consistently is not cleaning at all--it's tossing the tip and putting in a new one.

Incidentally, although I experimented with a brush for a while, I went back to pen for most of my inking simply because I don't have the control to use a brush effectively. I'm working on that control using some drills I drew from Gary Martin's The Art of Comic Book Inking--basically repeating sets of lines over and over and then over some more. For the present, I am trying to make the lines close, parallel, even, and as thin as I can while using the recommended technique (from several sources) of freezing fingers and wrist, and moving from the elbow and shoulder. This illustrates why I don't use either a brush or that "from the shoulder" technique in my comic at the moment:

actually that level of line control is very workable, IMHO.

TigerEye · Post by **TigerEye** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:18 pm

Are you using the universial Koh-I-nor ink with it? I found with my pen and ink stippling artwork that I also have a hard time using the universial ink, but I've had alot more success using the Koh-I-nor Ultradraw ink. It's a little bit thinner than the universial ink and doesn't clog my pens as often or as bad.

ChaosBurnFlame · Post by **ChaosBurnFlame** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:40 pm

Have you tried using ammonia?

Dburkhead · Post by **Dburkhead** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:45 pm

I'll have to try that.

Okay. Just ordered.

Anywherebuthere · Post by **Anywherebuthere** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:10 am

You know...it may be time to switch ink brands.

Ive been using speedball, and I haven't had a problem since I switched from Winsor Newton. I tend to let it age about 2 hours after I first open it, but it's very consistent on smooth brystol, and I haven't had a single issue with bleeding or stoppage since I switched over to the brystol/speedball combo.

Dburkhead · Post by **Dburkhead** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:22 am

anywherebuthere wrote:You know...it may be time to switch ink brands.

Ive been using speedball, and I haven't had a problem since I switched from Winsor Newton. I tend to let it age about 2 hours after I first open it, but it's very consistent on smooth brystol, and I haven't had a single issue with bleeding or stoppage since I switched over to the brystol/speedball combo.

By Speedball, do you mean the Speedball "Super Black Waterproof India Ink"? If the "ultradraw" ink doesn't work out, I'll give that a try.

Anywherebuthere · Post by **Anywherebuthere** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:07 pm

Yep, the super black india ink. It tends to be a little thin for me when I first open a bottle of it, but I just leave the top off of the container for two or three hours before I use it and that seems to give me a little bit heavier ink.

I've also liked the windsor newton matte calligraphy inks, since they feel a little heavier then the regular inks. But speedball & pen has definatly been my prefered inking combination.

Glambourine · Post by **Glambourine** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:55 pm

I used to use almost your exact setup, actually: Hunt 108 pen, Bristol board (14 x 11, though.) So my advice:

(1) Stop watering down your ink--that's what's causing the bleeding onto the paper. A better ink will help: Bombay Black is the absolute best dip pen ink I've ever used, but it's really hard to find in Austin now, so I suspect it's hard to find in general. Higgins archival ink is okay, but you'll have to dip the pen much more since it's thinner. If you don't mind that, go for Higgins.

(2) If a nib starts "stopping" in the middle of a line, switch nibs before you switch inks. Nibs are like two bucks apiece, if I remember right, and a fresh one will last for a while before it needs replacing. If a nib bends past a certain point, it'll stop giving you think lines and in some cases it'll stop giving you lines at all. Shortly before I switched to using microns and tech pens pretty much exclusively, I had like six nibs in my collection that I'd rotate in and out of use, all 108s, and it kept me going for some time.

You can also clean out your nibs overnight if you've got enough spares on hand. Soaking them for a few hours in a mixture of Koh-I-Noor cleaning solution and water (1/4 solution, 3/4 water) does the job and won't damage the metal too much--as long as you don't leave it in long enough to let it rust, of course. The quick and dirty way is just to soap and water your nib after every three hours or so of straight inking. It won't get rid of all the dried ink, but it'll get rid of enough to keep you in business.

TheSuburbanLetdown · Post by **TheSuburbanLetdown** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:36 pm

Definitely buy that Koh-i-noor ink cleaner to clean the nibs. Ad use boiling water to get the oil off the nibs.

I use Higgin's Black Magic ink for brush work and dip pens on Brisol.