Fight scene! Please critique ... [new pic o9.1o.o6]

Bluebug · Post by **Bluebug** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:25 pm

This bit of fanart is a commission, so I'm hoping people will be able to offer up some critiques. The top guy is missing his weapon because I've spent 9 hours on this today ... and the last remaining art cell in my brain is about to stab itself. There's already a couple things that I've noticed that's wrong with this pic (like the top guy's wonky arm), but I'm hoping better eyes than mine will catch stuff that I've missed.

Thanks in advance!!

Halo299 · Post by **Halo299** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:47 pm

perhaps i am just tired and my eyes arnt' working right.

but if i looked at it with no prior information i'm not sure i would know that they were fighting.

the way you have them makes it look like they are just kind of floating in space and not really interacting with each other.

this isn't as big of a deal as it might sound, because i think that with a slight change in the way they are aranged might fix it.

i hope that helped.

-halo

834n · Post by **834n** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:13 pm

Lots of comics have people enjoy combat though. Not too realistic, but not uncommon or bad to have someone smile in combat.

Got to agree with Halo there. Perhaps by, if at all possible, moving the guy in the top of the page down a tad so that he is slightly overlapping the other guy might help.

VinnieD · Post by **VinnieD** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:18 pm

one thing I noticed is the direction they're looking in. They aren't looking at each other. It makes it look like they're not fighting each other but fighting two seperate off panel foes.

Twotimingpete · Post by **Twotimingpete** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:21 am

I'll start by saying that it's a good drawing, the overall proportions are pretty good and the faces are good.

that said, there are some pretty large issues that stop this from being a very dynamic fight picture.

My initial ideas. some of the problem is they just look a bit too static and aren't looking at eachother.

Top fighter: his left hand should be rotated a bit so the palm is facing in the direction of hi sown face. his right hand should be pulled back more like he's going to throw a punch or something. his torso should be sort of twisted to reflect his arms and shoulders being in opposite directions. like if you twisted the top of his back some we'd be able to see some of his back facing more towards the camera.

the left foot would look a bit more dynamic if it was curled a tad bit instead of flat. position his face and/or eyes a bit so that he's looking at the bottom fighter.

bottom fighter: part of the problem here is that he's not even facing in the same direction as the top fighter. you ought to find a way to make him looking at the top fighter. also he should be holding that weapon in such a way that it looks like he's attacking \with it. like winding up or swinging it towards the enemy. as it stands, he's going in the opposite direction, not looking at his target, and not really doing anything with his weapon.

Bluebug · Post by **Bluebug** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:27 am

First off, thanks for all the comments.

Secondly, I apologize for putting up an unfinished pic. The bottom guy is blocking the top guy's attack, which is why he isn't swinging his weapon. Silly me, it was late and I wasn't thinking clearly ... I was hoping each character would be critiqued separately ... but that doesn't really make sense in the context of a fight scene, does it? They're not making contact because the top guy is missing his weapon ... and I still need cheat a little by tweaking their angles on the computer. And yeah, the fact that they're not looking at each other was just laziness on my part - I was going to fix that latter.

Anyway, before it sounds like I'm making too many excuses for myself

...

Hmmm ... I see what you mean about his back, twotimingpete. Good point. I'm not too sure what to do with his left hand, to be honest. He's supposed to have just thrown a boomerang type weapon .. and is now pulling back that arm as he's attacking with his right hand. Initially I had his foot slightly curled ... but then I simplified it. I'll try changing the foot back to the way it was.

The more I look at it, the more trouble I think I'll have actually making their weapons make contact. Oh well ... I might have to change which arm the top guy is attacking with.

Biev · Post by **Biev** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:56 pm

I think the main problem with this picture is that the characters are not looking at each other. If you draw a line in the direction they are looking, you'll see it's off to the side. Also, they're not facing each other. They seem to have been position in a way that would be convienient for you to draw. You draw well, if you had both of these things, I'm sure the picture would work.

Robin Pierce · Post by **Robin Pierce** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:36 am

One thing that I noticed immediately is that the top guy's left eye (our right) is on a different plane than the other one. it's too far to the right (his left).

Without reading what other people have said now (they've probably covered this before)
Guy on top's left arm if off. the fabric twists in a way that it wouldn't be pulled, and for a fighter - it looks like he has no muscles whatsoever. His shoulder is also not properly attatched to his arm. The same arm issue goes for the guy on the bottom, his left arm. with the bulge where it is, it looks like his arm isn't attatched.
Also, in my opinion, guy on top is a bit too thin, but that's likely a stylistic thing.

I do however, really like how the hair flows, and the weapon. tis pretty.

Bluebug · Post by **Bluebug** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:55 am

Biev: Thankfully that's one of the easier things to fix on this drawing.

pierce studios: Actually, most of the stuff you mentioned, no one else has mentioned, so thanks for that. The top guy's anorexic look sans musculature is how he was designed. I'll probably take some artistic license and bulk him up so he doesn't look like a stick. Unfortunately, the angle at which at drew him doesn't do him any favors.

Laemkral · Post by **Laemkral** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:45 pm

I have to say I really don't like the way that sword is being held. It works for small blade like daggers, knives, maybe even a short sword if your opponent is on the ground, but a larger blade is too heavy and awkward to use like that.

Two reasons: Strength, and area of coverage.

You block when an attack will hit you, and you then want to defend using as little motion and energy as possible. In that position you can generate a lot of muscle strength for slashing and downward stabbing and it is perfect for that. Parrying an attack is harder because you're muscles don't generate as much strength. Where the sword is also covers an area where his body isn't and that means it's probably stopping a blow that wouldn't have hurt him.

How the weapon should be held if you continue to use that grip. Keep it the same for offensive moves, but have the blade held alongside the forearm for defensive moves. Uses the back and shoulder muscles well and you can still protect the body with minium motion. It isn't as fluid or flexible as in the blade up grip, but it is a more offensive grip anyways.

Bluebug · Post by **Bluebug** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:47 am

I want to get these characters right anatomically first, before putting them back to together. Before I was trying to work within the confines of the page, make them interact and look right stylistically ... so I was sacrificing a little bit of everything. Here's the sketchy, reworked version of the bottom character.

Laemkral · Post by **Laemkral** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:37 pm

See, now THAT is nifty! Looks good.

Biev · Post by **Biev** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:17 am

When you redraw the other guy, if he is still in the same place but looking at the guy on the floor, his head will have to be tilted down in a way that we won't really see his face.

Chaoticcomics · Post by **Chaoticcomics** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:51 pm

When you redraw the other guy, make sure to give him some kinda weapon. An unarmed guy jumping at a guy with a sword/dagger head on seems kinda...suicidal.

You could have the bottom character looking the other way and the top character jumping at the character from behind. Throw in some black background with trees/shrubbery and that would look cool.

Biev · Post by **Biev** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:30 pm

chaoticcomics wrote:An unarmed guy jumping at a guy with a sword/dagger head on seems kinda...suicidal.

You don't know, he could be crazy like that...

Black Sparrow · Post by **Black Sparrow** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:51 pm

Biev wrote:
chaoticcomics wrote:An unarmed guy jumping at a guy with a sword/dagger head on seems kinda...suicidal.
You don't know, he could be crazy like that...

A ninja could pull it off.

Seriously, though, I'd love to see what the other weapon looks like. I appreciate well-drawn deadly instruments.

Twotimingpete · Post by **Twotimingpete** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:08 pm

upgrade 'em to guns!

Bluebug · Post by **Bluebug** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:21 pm

This is why I didn't sketch out the other weapon:

Unfortunately there's still some perspective problems with it, but after redoing bits of it many times, I've just decided to leave it as it is, unless someone wants to give me some pointers!

A lot of stuff is still wonky with the top guy. The hands and arms are basically "placers" at this time ... so I see if the pose works, rather than the anatomy. (Yes, I'm well aware he doesn't look like he's holding the weapons...) I may just need to redraw the top guy. If you want to suggest a better pose, go right on ahead.

All in all, I'm happy with how the bottom guy turned out. And the weapons ain't bad either.

Snackbot · Post by **Snackbot** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:42 pm

Wow

The weapons make the whole thing pop! What seemed really flat before now looks like a really deep scene, and the way they relate to one another makes sense.

I still think the lower guy should be looking up more, though.

Black Sparrow · Post by **Black Sparrow** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:41 pm

Snackbot wrote:I still think the lower guy should be looking up more, though.

Well, he is looking at the gigantic POINTY WHEEL OF DEATH coming at his face, so I'm willing to let it slide.

I'm seeing why you didn't draw the weapons earlier (they are REALLY cool, though). Though, now that I see the placement of the weapons as they block, you'd think the top guy's momentum would be in the opposite direction than the way the bottom guy's blocking...