Critic away, I'm all ears!

Think your comic can improve? Whether it's art or writing, composition or colouring, feel free to ask here! Critique and commentary welcome.

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Ellecomic
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Critic away, I'm all ears!

Post by Ellecomic »

I have a brand new webcomic upped. I'm amateur at everything about webcomicing so I need some critique! I'm ready for some brutal comic bashing!

Since it's so new there aren't many pages for you to look at, but I was hoping some of you could have a look at my art (or what's there of my comic) and tell me what I need to do to make it better.

I'd like to hear useful things, school moi plz! And don't be afraid to compliment if you feel the need ;)

http://www.myumyu.se/elle

inputs on <B>ART</b> anyone?
EDIT
I appreciate that you care, but I've warned you about layout comments. Everything you tell me I've probably and most likely already heard before. You're wasting your time! :)

Can I ask a question? Whytf does everyone use fire fox instead of IE anyway? Is it better? Because if so I don't see how!

EDIT AGAIN
Sorry, one other thing. I was looking for useful insight on how I could change my comic right? Well that's fine if you don't like some of the effects I used in my panels. But that's your own opinion I suppose and it doesn't really help me out a lot.
Last edited by Ellecomic on Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:45 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Biev
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Post by Biev »

I'm not finding your comic. All I see on your main page is tiny text that I can't make out.

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Ellecomic
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Post by Ellecomic »

Biev wrote:I'm not finding your comic. All I see on your main page is tiny text that I can't make out.
You need glasses hun! Either that or your browser doesn't support my shiz!

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Joel Fagin
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Post by Joel Fagin »

ellecomic wrote:You need glasses hun! Either that or your browser doesn't support my shiz!
Well, neither does mine. The text is crowded and overlapping and the menu simply isn't there. It works better in Internet Explorer but I still gave up in frustration long before finding any sort of comic to read.

You may find this useful.

- Joel Fagin
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Post by Warofwinds »

Well, no offense, but if Biev can't see the page or the comic, that's your fault and it needs to be fixed. It's your job to be as accomodating to your prospecting audience as possible, not for us to go and download whatever browser may or may not work. Your templates are all broken up in Firefox, and partially work in IE 6. Firstly, I would suggest fixing that. No one is going to stay to read the comic if it's a trial to even find and navigate through it (which it was, btw). I can't scroll down the pages in the main little box, so I can only read what first appears.

Once I finally found your comic through the links on the main page that I can't see, the comic was 3/4 down the page and the template was all wonky. Your moving buttons for previous and next, while first kind of cool, quickly became distracting and frustrating, as I had to click on them 3 or 4 times for them to work, AND my cursor changes shape. I would suggest neither. The comic should be the main focus, not the buttons. A simple, unmoving image would work -better- than fine.

Now, enough of the web stuff, and I really didn't mean to sound mean or anything. I'm just in a rush, and not looking forward to a long drive tomorrow, so apologies. I also hate it when a webpage changes my cursor, especially to that crossy thing.

On to the art! Your first page is definitely NOT a piece of crap. It's actually my favorite. I like the placement of panels, the effort put into items and the background, and the shading. The black fingernails kinda freak me out, but I'll wait for more info on the characters. Going on to the second page, really like the perspective on the first panel (the more unique the perspectives you can accomplish, the more you pull the reader into the story. If you're good at this feat of artistic accomplishment, do it a lot), but I don't like the blur of the last panel. Also, use references, ESPECIALLY with weapons. Can't stress that enough.

On the third page, panel progression is skewed. Your top RIGHT comes before the lower LEFT. Unless you've decided to go japanese and have the action proceed this way (and not tell anyone), I would suggest just swapping the placement of those panels. Also, that is a totally different gun, but it looks like you used a cool reference!

Fourth page needs close-ups where there are far shots, and zoom outs where there are close-ups. Well, no, I take that back. I love that first panel with the eyes. I think the second eye panel would have been better served as a torso shot, showing body language of inner torment. Tense shoulders, shaking, clenched fists, downward head angle. The last panel, it kinda looks like the guy in green is tackling the other guy instead of giving him a hug. Unless it's a tackle hug. But that left arm still looks awkward.

I love page 5. Much more emotion and body language in this one. Hands look awkward though.

Other suggestions: more time on backgrounds. Past page 1 and the door on page 3, there's almost nothing. They're floating in a void of greenish gray.

Practice shading for "black" and "white" things. Add a little bit of muted color, like blue or purple for black, or gray/blue for white.

Pick a set light direction. Your last page especially seems to have an ambient light, and it's hurting the mood. Your comic so far seems to be one for dark, stark shadows, and right now it's light and with muted shadows.

Your comic also so far kinda reminds me of Metanoia (MA rating). Have you read it? If not, I would suggest browsing and looking at how the artist does hands and body language.

Overall, definitely continue! You've got a lot of potential here. [/u][/i]
-Kez
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Ellecomic
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Post by Ellecomic »

I HATE fire fox and most people seem to have it. I don't have it and do not have access to fire fox anywhere so therefore can't make a site that works on fire fox. To many people bitching about my layouts. I've changed it once already to suit the first set of complaints and I'm not going to change it again because I'm just going to be faced with more complaints! I'm sorry.

Any further comments made on the layout I'm going to ignore.

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Post by Snackbot »

ellecomic wrote:Any further comments made on the layout I'm going to ignore.
Not to play devil's advocate... but I find this contradictory in a thread that states you are "all ears" in the title. You're "just a little bit ears", at best.

</snark>

In any case, I know you wanted a critique of your art, and I like it. There's not very much of it yet (just the five pages, and warofwinds covered them all really well), but I'd like to see more. The character design is nice and you have a good eye for what's going on inside their heads.

Please, though, I don't care if you change any thing else... just get rid of those scrolling buttons. The reader shouldn't have to time their click exactly right just to advance to the next page, and it just gives you this sense of motion sickness with nothing staying in place.

It looks like a good start, though.
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Joel Fagin
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Post by Joel Fagin »

ellecomic wrote:I HATE fire fox and most people seem to have it. I don't have it and do not have access to fire fox anywhere
It is free to download. I hate IE myself but I've got IE6 and 7 installed for testing purposes. You don't have to use Firefox for anything else if you don't want to.

At any rate, the webcomic community has a higher proportion of Firefox users than elsewhere. I would recommend getting the website working with it.
Any further comments made on the layout I'm going to ignore.
So be it, but as a graphic, webpage and user interface designer, I will say that you will be turning away more potential readers than just us if you leave it.

(And just to make it clear, I'm not talking about the way the pages looks - that's very nice, in fact - but how hard it is to get around and find the comic.)

- Joel Fagin
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Ellecomic
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Post by Ellecomic »

I don't mean to come off short but I've had way to many remarks on this subject and quite frankly, I'm tired of trying to fix the layout to please everyone. I'm sick of it. Maybe if I get the oppertunity I'll make a fire fox friendly site. If anyone that HAS fire fox wants to fix the site for me.

And in my defense, I never said anything about a layout in my post. I'm all ears for input on my ART.

Thanks for the comments. Some of the things mentioned about my paneling seem like misunderstandings. If somethings to close it's done intentionally, but if it's a bit hard to follow let me know! I'll get better as I go :)

Thanks again!

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Post by RemusShepherd »

I'm using the Opera browser, and the site layout is broken for me also. I can find invisible buttons, but it's not clear which one links to the comic. I gave up at that point.

The art on your main page, though, is beautiful. I find it hard to believe you're worried about your art if you can do stuff like that. Have you *seen* most webcomics out there? :)
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Ellecomic
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Post by Ellecomic »

RemusShepherd wrote:I'm using the Opera browser, and the site layout is broken for me also. I can find invisible buttons, but it's not clear which one links to the comic.
I think I fixed the links, do they show now?

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Post by Twotimingpete »

I can see what you're going for with the stylized layout. And I think it's very important to integrate your layout with the theme and feel of a comic. It's great.

..HOWEVER, it's even more important for the comic to be easy to find and easy to navigate, and it's just not. As others have said, it only seems to work in IE. This is a big problem. You may be tired of tweaking the site, but this is a serious issue because less than half of your visitors will be using IE and will be confused and flustered and leave.

Ordinarily I'd even recommend placing the most recent comic on the very first page that people see. I'm a big advocate of that as a general rule of thumb.

Trust me, I've had more than my fair share of headaches with setting up websites. It's a huge pain. But at least test in IE and Firefox if nothing else, as most people will be using one or the other, and if you're going to put in tons of work producing your labor of love comic strip, you want as many people as possible to see it as opposed to be turned away needlessly by layout problems.

As for the actual comic, it's pretty good. Some of the blur I could do without. I'd also recommend not being self depricating about your work on your website. If the author doesn't stand completely behind his or her work and believe in it, the readers might not be inclined to.

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RemusShepherd
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Post by RemusShepherd »

ellecomic wrote:
RemusShepherd wrote:I'm using the Opera browser, and the site layout is broken for me also. I can find invisible buttons, but it's not clear which one links to the comic.
I think I fixed the links, do they show now?
Nope. I can see the links if I highlight the text, so I think it's just a matter of the links being the same color as the light gray background. (Are they supposed to be on the dark gray portion? Because the way things are they're on the lighter part.)

I went in to look at the comic itself. The layout is broken there, too -- I had to page down before the comic even begins, and then it's off-center, spilling out of the dark gray background box a little.

But the art in the comic itself is fine. I don't think you have anything to worry about there. :)
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Post by Jeffy »

couldn't see the page correctly in my main Firefox, not allowing me to actually browse anything, luckily, I have a quick switch installed in Firefox to load it into IE

First thing I noticed (aside from incompatibility with a very popular browser) was that not the complete buttons on the menu are selectable, meaning you have to hunt around for a clickable area on the menu.

Not being the master of artwork myself, I think your artwok looks fine for the style you seem to be going for.

May edit and post more later but need to head to work now.
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Post by Jollyrodgers4 »

Wow! For your age you have a very high skill level! Your comic looks pretty good. The only suggestion I have is to muddy up some of the brighter blues you have in your first 5 pages.

The website worked fine for me, but changes my cursor..... grrrr. I hate that little cross thingy.

Can't wait to read more of your book!

Cheers
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Biev
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Post by Biev »

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I'm using Safari. This basically means that you've made your site inaccessible to all Mac users. If you care to know.

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Post by Heaposheep »

Your art is very good... I really like it. It's cinematic without losing the appeal of 2D print media.

It's "dark" but not physically dark on the screen. You've avoided the trap of thinking that to make something dark, you've got to turn the contrast way down/up.

Technically very nice.

However, I never would have seen your art if I hadn't been trying very hard to see it. Opera 9, site totally broken. I've got to go hunting for invisible text to make the buttons work. If you don't want to deal with this crap, don't do a webcomic. Sell a book. Make posters. Something besides the web. You wouldn't accept a book proof if the text was the same color as the paper, would you? Don't accept a website like that either.
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Post by Jesslynstormheart »

I can see the links at the top but I'm using IE. I just clicked on the archives and found the comic from there. It looks like you spent some time with the page layout and it looks good. I can't say that I'm fond of the mouse pointer. It's hard to see but that's just a personal preference thing.

I really like the art. You seem to have a unique style...at least from my perspective. I like how you are able to convey emotion in your art and set a moody tone. Your color choices and some of the effects, like how you blurred some of the images, really works.

The story idea is intriguing. A potential suicide is a good way to grab the readers. I was a little confused at first whether he shot himself or not. The boom went off and then a hand pulled the gun away. I didn't see any blood but there was a dead look in his eyes.

Overall I think this is nicely done.

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Post by RemusShepherd »

Biev wrote:I'm using Safari. This basically means that you've made your site inaccessible to all Mac users. If you care to know.
Yeah, that's what I saw on Opera. The links are between the '&' signs at the top.

Final critique: Art is pretty. Site is unavigatable. That's good news; sites can easily be redesigned, but improving one's artwork is hard. :)
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Post by Christwriter »

Same thing that I saw in Firefox.

Hon, HTML is frustraiting. I would rather be tied down in an ant pile than design complex webpages, but having a navagatable webpage is critical. It's your presentation, your silver platter.

I have no idea what YOUR stats are like, but with mine, the average visitor comes in, stays for five to thirty seconds, views one page and leaves. If I want this reader to stay longer or to come back, I need to hook them in those thirty seconds. They don't care about me, my characters or my story, so I need to have good art and an understandable website that functions smoothly so they're not frustraited while they're reading and getting hooked. When a reader is hooked, your website could be all brokey and they wouldn't care. A new reader will not read long enough to GET hooked, however, if your site is too frustraiting for them to use.

Your website is absolutely non functional for me in Firefox, and firefox is my default browser. I'm a casual reader. I'm not going to switch to IE to see if your code works there. I'm going to assume that if it's broken in Firefox, it's broken, peroid, and that IE wouldn't make a difference, and I'm going to move on to the next website because yours is too confusing. By having a webpage that ONLY functions in IE, you've alienated the MAJORITY of your potential readers. ( Again using my personal stats, out of 100 readers, 43% use some form of IE. The remaining 57% use something else. If my stats are anything like everyone else's stats, MORE THAN HALF of your potential readers CANNOT USE YOUR SITE.) Your art is fantastic. Not perfect but very, very good. My first visit I got too frustraited trying to find your non-existant buttons to see it.

You've got a great foundation and a great comic. Fixing the site so that most people can use it should be your number one priority.

CW
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