Need an injury

[Dburkhead]

As I do some preliminary sketches for the scene, it looks like what I'm actually going to go with a stab/cut to the armpit. (It's amazing how getting the actual visuals down starts defining the scene dynamic.)

Can I make a wound like this where it would be very likely to be fatal if untreated but for which relatively skilled first aid can make the difference between death and survival?

I presume for a wound like this, bleeding profusely, first aid would be direct pressure to get the bleeding stopped, then bandaging it?

Finally, one "story purpose" of the scene is to put the person applying first aid into a bit of a moral dilemma. He has to avoid the authorities and so has to bug out when the ambulance lights come around the corner. Ideally, he should be uncertain whether the attackee would survive and whether his staying that extra few seconds before the EMT's arrive might have made the difference.

[Nightgaunt]

Er, I think so, if the cut goes into the torso from the armpit but not deep enough to hit a lung, and maybe if it just missed the brachial artery.

Anyways, yeah, 1st step would be direct pressure, next would be a pressure dressing. Here's a link I should have posted last time. Under "Subject area 2: first aid" you can find first aid that has been essentially idiot-proofed.

[Jared]

Shock! I can't believe I didn't think of it all ready, he could be talking to her to try and keep her from going into shock, leaving her alone for a little while could result in her going under.

[Nightgaunt]

Shock! I can't believe I didn't think of it all ready, he could be talking to her to try and keep her from going into shock, leaving her alone for a little while could result in her going under.

Wow, can't believe I missed that one too. In addition to talking, elevating the legs, loosening restrictive clothing, and stabalizing temperature (keep the casualty cool if it's hot, warm if it's cold). And yeah, people will sometimes go into shock for minor reasons - a firefighter once told me about a guy who went into shock after dislocating a shoulder.

[Dburkhead]

The scene is now coming up.

What I've ended up with is:
The Bad Guy(tm) grabs the victim by one arm. He pulls her across in front of him and stabs with the knife, aiming at the armpit but misses slightly, hitting a bit lower in the side. The point of the knife catches in a rib for a moment and that, combined the woman's struggles pull the knife out of the man's hand and flips it away. This leaves the woman on her knees (more from the pull than the knife wound), screaming and the man punches her in the jaw, knocking her out.

At this point Our Hero(tm) finally manages to get across the distance that separated him from The Bad Guy at the beginning of the scene and, after a short scuffle, lays him out. He then turns to render first aid to the injured woman.

So, while there's still time to fix it, is there anything particularly implausible about that scenario?

Second, can the injury I've described reasonably do what I originally wanted to do: create a situation where, if left alone, the woman would almost certainly die but with proper first aid would likely survive. A benefit, for story purposes, would be if I could create a moral dilemma since Our Hero cannot be there when the authorities arrive. He can cut out at the last minute, but having him legitimately wonder if that extra few seconds might have made a difference in the woman's survival (particularly since he's not going to know for some time whether or not she survived) has some interesting possibilities in it.

Finally, any references on what such a wound would look like, how much blood would be spread around (such as how big a puddle around the victim), etc. would be helpful. I've never seen a life-threatening wound in real life (and I hope I never do) and I don't want to rely on Hollywood's idea of what such things look like.

[Dburkhead]

Based on some responses I've gotten elsewhere, let me try a slightly different tack. Suppose I go with the brachial artery slash instead of the thoracodorsal stab or slash. It appears that while strikes to the armpit are something I was taught but others find it odd. Also, googling on "armpit stab wounds" only finds sitations (generally as parts of legal cases) where armpit wounds are one of "multiple stab wounds" so it may not be as commonly taught as I believed. (And I really, really, want that wound to be to the trunk, but....)

Given that, what kind of blood loss rates would come from that? The reason for that is to get some idea how much blood there will be in the vicinity as the scene progresses. Is Our Hero going to be kneeling in a puddle of blood, covered in blood spray, or just enough blood to soak the victim's shirt and arm? Any of the above that I want for the story (remember, by the end of the scene I want it to be an open question whether or not the woman survived).

On a related note, as they say, blood is thicker than water so water won't work for this purpose. Can anyone (rkolter?) recommend some commonly available, preferably non-toxic liquid with about the viscosity of blood? The idea, of course, is to see what kind of a puddle 1 cup, or 1 pint, or half a gallon for that matter of blood makes.

[Tears]

I vaguely remember someone trying to explain how much a pint of blood would cover (in an explanation of an unsolved crime) and they used the analogy of dropping a pint of milk... the point being made was that a pint of blood will look like a lot, lot more when it's all spread out.
I'm not sure if that's helpful or not...

...personally my blood is actually pretty watery (abnormally so) so if i cut myself with say a kitchen knife (by accident i mean... i'm a clumsy chef) the blood ends up covering half the kitchen even though I'm not actually badly injured, ok i'm exagerating, but by less that you'd think.

[Dburkhead]

Here's a slightly different question.

One alternate suggestion that's been brought up (by someone who doesn't like the slash or stab to the side for a number of pretty good reasons) is a slash to the upper arm and getting the brachial artery.

It would work well from a technical standpoint, and wouldn't even require much change to existing pencils. My concern is dramatic impact. Would the average reader likely understand how serious such a wound is or would I get a reaction of "it's just a cut to the arm." After all, in the movies shots to the shoulder, arm, and leg are generally considered "mere flesh wounds" and that's going to shape a lot of people's perceptions. And if readers have the idea of "not serious" than a lot of the dramatic impact of the scene and its follow up goes away.

Thoughts?

[Donkas]

If this is relevant for you I hope it helps, I once got shot with a target arrow up the bush, it passed through my upper bicep and lodged in my 8th rib, Although the holes were small, (less than 5mm in lenth) i still lost about half a litre of blood by the time we got back to the town and most of the bloood came from the arm and not my chest, but it was still enough to soak through a set of thermals and a flannel shirt. shallow cuts even the ones you can stitch up yourself will always look horrible no matter how frivilous. Oh and if you really want a blood like substance corn syrup is used in most faux blood applications, but you shall need to add food dye for colouring.

[Dburkhead]

For those who are interested, the scene all this has been about starts with today's update. Since I update weekly, it will take a bit to complete (about 5-6 pages all told).