Need an injury

Dburkhead · Post by **Dburkhead** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:17 pm

Got an upcoming scene I can use some help with regarding an injury.

The scenario is a woman is being held by one arm from in front. The man
holding her has a knife and intends to stab her--up under the sternum.

Just as he moves, a shout distracts him which, combined with the woman's
struggles, causes him to miss his intended target. I need something that
will be reasonably likely in that scenario, life threatening if not promptly
treated (say from bleeding out), yet likely surviveable given prompt first
aid.

My first thought is maybe a stab/gash that deflected off the ribs (keeping
it from going into the lung cavity) as not too unlikely, but don't know if
that would be dangerous enough.

Any suggestions?

Cortland · Post by **Cortland** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:59 pm

I'm assuming the attacker only hangs around for one "stab" at this, in which case I say make the knife slip, gouging the skin at an angle rather and piercing through and hitting vital organs and such. Then I assume the attacker runs off, and heroine gets patched up to keep from bleeding to death (and stitches later).

Dburkhead · Post by **Dburkhead** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:45 pm

I don't want to go into too much detail here, but it comes down to the attacker getting interrupted.

Oualawouzou · Post by **Oualawouzou** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:50 pm

How about a punctured lung? It isn't very spectacular but it is indeed life-threatening if medical assistance isn't provided quickly. Punctured lung do not bleed much but some pinkish liquid can flow out of the wound. It is accompanied by a shortness of breath and sometimes pain. It's a likely complication of a stab at the chest (if, as an example, the victim struggles and bends over when the attacker stabs upwards). From what I've been told, medical assistance must be provided to keep the lung from collapsing within minutes, and specialized treatment is needed within 20-30 minutes. The victim can be conscious without problem throughout the ordeal.

Dburkhead · Post by **Dburkhead** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:55 pm

A punctured lung (or, alternately, a "sucking chest wound") was one of the things I first thought of. Problem was, I thought it was too big a monster for the situation. It needs medical care at the "EMT" level rather than just at the "first aid" level.

Another thing I thought of was a cut to the arm or leg that got a major artery (brachial or femoral respectively) but that seemed to unlikely given the scenario.

Smight · Post by **Smight** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:36 pm

Have her twist away so he ends up slashing the artery in her armpit. Lots of blood and life threatening.

Meep the Greek · Post by **Meep the Greek** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:20 pm

I don't think it would be unlikely that the knife could knick a major artery, especially in the arm. If she brings her free arm up to hit the assailant/block the knife, her arm would be right there in front of the blade. If she tried to grab the knife blade, she could cut her palm and wrist very badly, maybe even damage a tendon. And a knife stuck in the upper arm would certainly inconvenience anyone.

There's also gut shots, which would be very near to where the assailant was aiming in the first place. Even a long, deep slice across the abdomen would certainly cause some major problems, especially since it's not fun to run with abdominal ouchies.

Mimo · Post by **Mimo** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:48 am

WARNING: THIS SITE CONTAINS GRAPHIC MEDICAL PHOTOS
http://www.trauma.org/imagebank/imagebank.html

This site has a huge picture library of every nasty injury you can imagine. If you have a high gore tolerance it could be a useful resource.

Faub · Post by **Faub** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:21 pm

How is he holding the knife? If the blade is up and she's struggling, all she needs to do is bend forward and the blade would go into the soft muscle between her shoulder and ribs. If it sank deep enough, pulling it out would do more damage than good so the best method is to bind the knife into the wound and get her to the hospital. Alternately, if the knife is pointed down she could get it stuck into the inside of her leg by twisting and elbowing and kicking. It could be enough to get the knife pulled out of his hand.

If the knife got pulled out, there would be a lot of blood but nothing ultra-life threatening if treated first-aid style. He could buy her the time to get her to the hospital.

MixedMyth · Post by **MixedMyth** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:36 pm

Go for the hero spot!

Heh heh, I kid. The bouncing off the ribs thing is good. If she were actually to die, I've heard of cases where people use a knife from the side of the ribcage, slipping it between them. Apparently it's very lethal. Pretty creepy.

Dburkhead · Post by **Dburkhead** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:40 pm

"the hero spot"?

MixedMyth · Post by **MixedMyth** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:43 pm

It's an oft remakred upon injury.

It happens whenever the protagonist needs to be injured, but can't be seriously so. It's basically a shot or stab wound in either of the upper shoulders such that they're hurt, but not vitally so. It's an old, old trick that a lot of movies still use.

Nightgaunt · Post by **Nightgaunt** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:52 pm

Hmmm... ok, it's been a while since my EMT cert expired (and I've been drinking), so hopefully some of this will be correct. A sucking chest wound may be your best bet assuming there is someone with some first aid knowledge around. When I was in high-school JROTC we learned how to treat one in a emergency first-aid level -> use an impermeable substance such as plastic to cover the wound and decrease the rate at which the air is entering the cavity between the chest wall and the lung.

Note that it isn't always air, sometimes it's blood and sometimes it's a mix. What really sucks is when the pressure starts to mess with and impede the functioning of the heart (tension pneumothorax, hemothorax, and hemopneumothorax respectively).

Other then that, you could just have the blade stuck in a rib, which can be amusing.

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:27 am

Just as an aside...

has anyone actually TRIED to stab someone in the chest and puncture a lung?

It's damn hard. I mean, really, really hard. It's not like stabbing a steak. You really have to push your weight into the blade and bare down on it for it to go into the chest cavity.

The hero's spot is actually a bad spot to be hit too - artery in there.

I say go for the arm wound. Attacker distracted, woman tries to move away, manages to block with her arm, and *stabbo*!

Nightgaunt · Post by **Nightgaunt** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:02 pm

rkolter wrote:has anyone actually TRIED to stab someone in the chest and puncture a lung?

No. Never. Regardless of what you may or may not have heard.

Cope · Post by **Cope** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:40 pm

rkolter wrote:has anyone actually TRIED to stab someone in the chest and puncture a lung?

It's damn hard. I mean, really, really hard. It's not like stabbing a steak. You really have to push your weight into the blade and bare down on it for it to go into the chest cavity.

You scare me more and more with each passing day...

Post by **Mercury Hat** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:04 pm

Cope wrote:
rkolter wrote:has anyone actually TRIED to stab someone in the chest and puncture a lung?

It's damn hard. I mean, really, really hard. It's not like stabbing a steak. You really have to push your weight into the blade and bare down on it for it to go into the chest cavity.
You scare me more and more with each passing day...

Eh, it's Ryan. At this point I'm not surprised by much of what he says.

Dburkhead · Post by **Dburkhead** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:10 pm

You could get a side of ribs and try stabbing through it. No actual murder need be involved.

Jared · Post by **Jared** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:40 am

I'm having a bit of trouble visuallising the situation your describing, but I'd go with a relativly shallow cut across the torso. No arterys cut, but a really big cut with a lot of blood comming out, not fatal if you get some help applying preasure.
Or failing that a decent cut across the stomach, no organ damage, but the picture of someone holding there instestines in with there hands while difficult looks very good if you pull it of.

Jetbunny · Post by **Jetbunny** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:57 am

I'd say simply go for a deep gash. Fatal since you can bleed to death, easily remedied since you can stitch it up, plus there's some kind of powder in a few kinds of first aid kits that stops bleeding. Can't remember what it's called...anti-something-or-other.

Gut shots always work, too.