Acceptable Starting Skill.

[pastutopia]

Hey,

I came to this forum as it seems to be somewhat more friendly toward the beginning crowd them some other locations. I am mostly looking for opinions or advice (and in the hope that opinions at least are not in short supply). Briefly a biographical explanation of my position: I am a writer, and I've written a few a novels, but never ventured into the webcomic market. One of my recent unpublished novels I wrote as serial (ie: the starting point of an indefinite series, rather than a purely self contained work, seeking a signature original universe), and have decided to instead adapt the novel and its implied series into a webcomic to establish my own intellectual property and acquire a fun hobby. Unfortunately, this idea did not instantly grace me with drawing skill. So recently I purchesed a tablet (wacom, cintiq) and started doodling.

I've spent a few weeks now with these doodles, and come with this question. How good is good enough? Looking around I see a lot of fairly popular webcomics that started with more… humble… origins. So I'm wondering, is it worth it to launch with shoddy art? I am vaguely confident in my writing as its… well, its what I do, for the better or the worse. My main fear is that the beginning art would drive away many would be readers.

Essentially at what level do you think art is good enough that people will preserve till it gets better? At what level is it better off waiting? I would appreciate general thoughts, links, or whatever the opinions there are to be offered. For an example of my current level of art… http://www.pastutopia.com (sketchbook tab has some stuff, as the main comic is not up yet.) is a temporary site my friend set up for me to play with the webcomic tools. I find that my drawing looks… well, immature. Generally speaking I would like to acquire a style that doesn't look like my kid did it, but I'm aware that could take months or years of effort.

I wouldn't mind specific critique if someone wants to offer it, but largely I am aware of many of my current flaws when it comes to drawing, as I am struggling to learn this new endeavor as quickly as possible; but what I'm really looking for what people think are the pros and cons of starting early vs polishing and starting strong. It seems that if it starts off too poorly, even if it improves over the months and years, people who start at the first page my find themselves unable to 'catch-up' to the better art in a more story oriented comic where the first pages are still relevant years later.

Thank you in advance for thoughts, opinions, critiques, and contributions.
Best,
-PastUtopia.

[Koad]

I don’t have much in the way of advice, but I did have a somewhat similar experience – I’d always loved to draw, but for years I didn’t feel my drawings were good enough to show anyone, so I didn’t, until a few years ago when I thought to hell with that, what’s the worst that could happen? So I started posting a comic here on CG. It’s been a couple years now and my only regret is that I didn’t start sooner. For me the best thing about having a comic that needs to be updated every week is it forced me to take the time out to draw regularly, which I would otherwise be too lazy to do. And there’s nothing better for developing drawing skills. Some of my earlier stuff makes me cringe when I look back at them, but the way I see it, if I hadn’t started the comic I’d probably still be drawing like that.

So I say go for it. The drawing (which, from the samples you posted, isn’t nearly as bad as you seem to think) will improve if you keep at it. The consensus seems to be that readers are attracted more by good stories than good artwork anyway, and as a writer you already have a leg up in that department. And if you look back in a few years and really can’t stand your earlier, you can always go back and redo it (Between Places is one comic I know that did that, look in the archive if you want to see the before vs. after). Although from what I've heard, a lot of readers actually enjoy seeing how an artist develops from earlier, less polished work.
Good luck whichever way you decide.

[Mangaka2170]

I concur with Koad: your work, no matter what grade it's at, is good enough to be a webcomic. I mean, XKCD is a very popular one, and the art is mostly stick figures, for crying out loud!

[peterabnny]

I've seen some pretty poorly-drawn comics that were actually pretty good because the writing and humor was well done, and I've seen some really well-drawn comics that were kinda "Eh..." because they didn't have anything to draw me in.

I say piss on it and release what cha got. You got nothing to lose.

[weirdcrimetheater]

I say go for it. Especially if you try to keep to a regular schedule, the regular practice will help you get better. It's more of an incentive than trying to practice on your own (until you are "ready") without a concrete routine.


Kumar

[Procelis]

This was pretty much exactly what I was going to ask . Kind of cool to see I'm not the only one. You guys answers sort of solve my dilemma but I kind of still want to post some test strips though, and was wondering if I could go ahead and post them in this thread since its sort of related... I get the no art is bad art thing, but if my comics can't be understood by others through said art then its my responsibility to fix it before I actually start posting to avoid undue confusion and grief.
Nvm

The ops link is broken for me, and I can't look at his work , so please excuse me if it seems like I'm just trying to hijack this, I just can't think of anything to say without seeing the pictures.

[pastutopia]

I updated the link to a working one. Also, feel free to post - its not like your hijacking the thread. Its not so much a thread about me, but a thread about a problem in general. I merely offer myself as an example to the quandary.

[robotthepirate]

I like the style of what you've got so far. Everyone improves with practise and like Koad said, making yourself update regularly is the best way to keep yourself in practise. There's really little else to say that hasn't been said so I'll just agree with everyone: Go for it!

I'd advise against going back and redoing your old stuff. I used to think like that with my old webcomic, constantly wondering if I should restart it or just keep on and get better. In the end my passion for the comic pittered out and I stopped making it. Thats for the best in my case but I'd still advise thinking like that.

[johnsimcoe]

I know this is an old thread and all, but that's a perfectly fine sample you've posted there. Nice emotion and servicable if you can do it in 15 minutes or so.
Since you are aware of your flaws, you can do one of two things: Avoid them like the plague or work on them by more doodling and sketching. Eventually you'll break through by learning to draw what you need or you will reshape your story to avoid what you can't do.
I hope you get it started.

[Magicmen]

Doing the same sort of thing, except I did about 30ish strips back in 2004. I wasn't good at comic drawing, I am still not good at comic drawing. I'm also not that great at humor for the masses. I write mine just for the people that I parody in the comic. (You know, the characters are based on real people, etc. Lots of inside jokes.) I did get angry and stop 7 years ago because I thought no one was reading it, and recently I opened up the old email address I had for it, and...holy crap. Lots of people asking where it went for at least a year after I'd stopped. Not to mention I still know the guys that I 'drew' real well, so I took a stab at it again this weekend. Ended up with 8 new ones, that strangely enough...look almost exactly like they did in 2004, despite me not using the old ones as reference. Queued them up and the first new one in seven years should appear tomorrow.

If no one looks at it, that's okay. If they want to ridicule my drawing skills, that's fine. I do it in the comic myself. If they want to say it's yet another nerd-based piece of crap. Also fine! Because it is. The point is that I decided I always liked doing it by hand. Draw it by hand, line it by hand, scan it, and then ink/text it on the PC. It looks handmade, because it is. The three or four people that I know will read it every day is all I really need. I expect if I hadn't taken a seven year break it would probably look a lot better. I'm sure I would have developed new skills. Better drawing skills. Better PC image-manipulation skills.

No worries, is all I mean. And this is totally an old thread but it hit me at the right time I guess. (Painfully aware of my comic drawing ability). Strangely, I can draw a lot better, if you give me weeks and a larger workspace....hm.

[McDuffies]

If no one looks at it, that's okay. If they want to ridicule my drawing skills, that's fine. I do it in the comic myself.

I remember an advice I got long ago at some party: "Never tell anyone that you're drunk. Never apologuise for being drunk. Most of people are drunk as well and won't notice."

I don't think that anyone should mock their drawing skills in their comic. For one, that's a form of apology, but to whom? Those who are bothered by your drawing won't read it, those who aren't don't need an apology. All artists, no matter how skillful they are, have some weaknesses, but they don't point out those weaknesses, instead they concentrate on their strengths. And then some people are also are just plain annoyed by it.

If they want to say it's yet another nerd-based piece of crap. Also fine! Because it is. The point is that I decided I always liked doing it by hand. Draw it by hand, line it by hand, scan it, and then ink/text it on the PC. It looks handmade, because it is. The three or four people that I know will read it every day is all I really need. I expect if I hadn't taken a seven year break it would probably look a lot better. I'm sure I would have developed new skills. Better drawing skills. Better PC image-manipulation skills.

Well, on internet there's always someone worse on the other hand, on internet, even Brian Bolland's drawing will be ridiculed. As long as you have fun.

Strangely, I can draw a lot better, if you give me weeks and a larger workspace....hm.

I always wondered how many of people's comics would look like if they had all the time in the world. And weren't impatient.

[RobboAKAscooby]

I always wondered how many of people's comics would look like if they had all the time in the world. And weren't impatient.

If I had all the time in the world I might even learn to draw shoulder joints properly...ooh and hair too.

[robotthepirate]

Strangely, I can draw a lot better, if you give me weeks and a larger workspace....hm.

I always wondered how many of people's comics would look like if they had all the time in the world. And weren't impatient.

Mine would just have a lot more strips. I'm quite happy for my skill to develop slowly over years, but I'd love to have the time for a mon-wed-fri update schedule.

[Magicmen]

Don't get me wrong, I personally have no problem with my drawing ability. And I do crank out probably 10 or 12 strips in a 3 hour sitting. I actually think it's kind of neat that I draw it exactly the same way after seven years of not touching it. A little poking fun at myself, I don't see that as a bad thing really. I had a conversation with the real person who I'm using as a character that points it out to my character. He said something about taking my time, and making it look nicer. I said...well I don't recall what I said, but it stuck there, so I had a little fun by poking him back 'in character'. It's all in fun in that case.

I was thinking of an experiment. I use a regular 8"x11" sheet of plain white paper, measure out my panels by hand, and draw them. Then I do the comic in 4 little cramped spaces with a pencil and pen. I was going to take a few hours...or more...soon and use 4 of the full sheets to do a 'panel' with each, and just scan those....resize and see how they look as one of my 'regular' comics. And see if anyone notices. It'll be fun. That is the point of this right?

In my last post I didn't mean to insinuate that I'm terrible, and I suck and I could do better. The fact is, yeah I could do better. I like it how it is. That's all. Maybe I'll improve as I go. Maybe not. Who knows? I'm sure if I'd spent the last 7 years continuing my comic it would look a lot different, at least. Better? Too subjective. It's possible someday I'll buy a PC tablet to draw with. It's possible I'll take a night drawing class. I might read a book or two. Or read some tutorials.

The whole point of my rambling is I don't think there's a scale to say when your starting skill is 'acceptable' and when it isn't. If you can draw it, and you can get a point across, or a gag, or whatever you're trying to show...I think that's skill enough. People can ridicule it, but as it was already said...people will ridicule anything.

[Mastermind]

If I really took my time, my comics would probably have better perspective and more detail in the backgrounds. The thing is, staring at the same spot, coloring every little detail would suck all the fun out of it. Spending too much time on one piece of "art" is not a great idea in my case.

If I had all the time in the world I might even learn to draw shoulder joints properly...ooh and hair too.

But your classic drawings totally rock so it's like the Force is already with you

[McDuffies]

I'd have better anatomy. I'm always a few corrections away from right, but I'm too nervous to wait.