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WARNING - IF YOU HAVE NOT FINISHED ARCANA AND THE SUMMARY, DON'T READ THIS, UNLESS YOU WANT SPOILERS!!!









Ok, hi everyone... back by popular demand, it's discussion about Arcana! I wanted to talk about a few things, see your opinions......

-Vincent - Ok, so Vincent is going to make Holden a vampire, but he drinks the poison Harpy blood and dies. When do you think he figures out Holden is a harpy? It really seems like he knows before he takes that drink, and is willingly sacrificing himself. One thing though - when Vincent raped Holden, he did scratch him and make him bleed. Wouldn't he have licked up that blood and found its poison? It only makes sense... when his victim is bleeding, even if he's in the process of raping him, he would be attracted to the blood. That part I don't get. But I definitely think Vincent knew beforehand. The mental images he sends to Holden show he knows that as long as he lives, Holden will be tormented, and he's giving him another chance to be happy. Such a sad end for Vincent. but it really shows his humanity, which is what Holden was trying to get back to him.

- Holden/Yoshiki - It was really upsetting to me how harsh Yoshiki is, and how very unlike Holden. I felt that after Yoshiki came out of his human shell, Holden's personality was kind of gone. Harpies are known for being callous and cruel, but it was so sad to see Holden/Yoshiki like that! I guess since he's been in human guise for so long, that is why he still retains some humanity, like his love for his friends and his mate, Dom. But he's the most upsetting part of the end for me. It was just so sad... even after he went back to live with the humans, he didn't seem normal.

- Tobias - I was really shocked in the comic when Tobias started being demanding of Dom and telling him not to get too close to Holden... of course I knew something was up. And then when he had Dom kill the Vampire girl, that was so creepy. In the summary part, I guess I was expecting Tobias to be a big part, but I never thought that he was holding Arcana hostage. I wonder though, why didn't he try to ransom her off to the Harpies? I know he wanted her power, but did he really think he'd be able to use it? Even by destroying everything but Arcana herself, she would gain the power, and how would that help him? She'd retalliate. Maybe I'm missing something, but that was kind of unrealistic for him to think. Still, he's blinded by love for his dead wife and desire for the Harpies to stop the violence.

- Dominick - I really feel bad for Dom more than anyone else in the comic. He was controlled by Tobias while growing up, and wasn't able to be himself, just a puppet, like the later form of Adonis... He had no idea what was going on, either, and when Holden was chased off by the demons, Dom was alone with Tobias again. Then when he was back with Holden, he seemed fine, happy, until Tobias was shown giving him orders. And Dom carried them out, killing the girl... the next parts, where Dom ends up taking Holden to Arcana's prison, was so touching.... Tobias was such a bastard for pretending Dom's dad had killed himself, and I'm glad Dom realized the truth and shot Tobias. But then the poor boy has to contend with that, plus Yoshiki's sudden dialogue with Arcana. The feeling in Dom's heart when Yoshiki tells Arcana to kill him... thank goodness there's still some Holden in there who has a plan, to kill his mother, not his mate. And about that mate part. Since when does Holden like Dom? I don't know why that is there... Maybe I missed something, but it seemed strange to me.

-The ending in General - Even though the ending was depressing and upsetting, and things ended up kind of crappy for everyone, I have to admit I find it fitting. After all, Arcana is a dark comic, for sure. The fact that the end wasn't all happy goes with the rest of the comic. It just makes me depressed every time I read it.

That's all I have for now, a lot, I know. Discuss?

~Sara

Okay! Whoo! *Replys*

Well... I figure he would lick the blood... But I don't know did it state somewhere how much harpy blood was needet to kill...?
It didn't say anywhere what Vincent did exatly after that... Maybe he got sick or something and that's how he knows...?
Maybe that was atleast part of why he didn't kill Holden then?

To be completly honest... I hate Yoshiki... abselutly hate him.
Proberly because I'm a BIG Holden fan and ones Yoshiki appered it was like Holden just dissapered... Like he was never there in the first place... or like he died or something... And I abselutly hate that part.

I could imagen Tobias wasn't thinking that far...? As you said he was blindet... proberly as much by his want for the power...?

Holden likeing Dom... Maybe it wasn't Holden that liked Dominick but Yoshiki...? Maybe Harpys chose their mates for other reasons...? Or maybe it was all just out of want of saving him from the Harpies...?

Atleast that's my thoughts <.< >.>

To be completly honest... I hate Yoshiki... abselutly hate him.
Proberly because I'm a BIG Holden fan and ones Yoshiki appered it was like Holden just dissapered... Like he was never there in the first place... or like he died or something... And I abselutly hate that part.

*nods* I never likes Yoshiki either- I found him obnoxious and evil. I really didn't like that bit of the plot- Holden becoming Yoshiki- it wrecked the rest of the ending for me. And Vincent dying...*sniffles*

It kinda makes me wish I hadn't read it, but also makes me thankful that I did read it to the end... O.o;; That probably made absoultly no sense ^.^;;

...Totally random thing here, but I was reading your comic, Dazza, and trying to figure out what you said you forgot *squints at page* But I can't see anything wrong.

It was pretty easy to tell that Holden had some of Arcana's power in him... I figured the reason why he dreamt about Yoshiki was because he had some kind of connection to him through that power.
I have to admit I would never have guessed he was Yoshiki... and I don't think Holden seemed to like the character of Yoshiki either...

I mean if you think about it... What do you think Holden would have said if someone told him he was Yoshiki and actually gave him a choice if he wanted to be Yoshiki... or Holden...?

*Grins at Damned*
Well... Look at my other drawings of my main character... and the 3ed panel on that page.
If you still can't tell let me know and I'll tell you what it is ^.^

Honestly I was thinking of taking a brake from that comic... I think the story might be a little too complex for my current comic skills... So I was pondering working on another (Yaoi with all guys in it) and then coming back to that one...

*Grins at Damned*
Well... Look at my other drawings of my main character... and the 3ed panel on that page.
If you still can't tell let me know and I'll tell you what it is ^.^

*grins and goes back and looks at all the other pages* *squints* Has his pant's changed colour? Is that it? Or are his bandages missing? *truly has no idea* Am I right?

Honestly I was thinking of taking a brake from that comic... I think the story might be a little too complex for my current comic skills... So I was pondering working on another (Yaoi with all guys in it) and then coming back to that one...

^.^ Whatever you do is your decision- I'd really like to see more of this comic, but I'd also really like to see more of your artwork. I think another comic would be really cool ^.^ If doing another one, and then coming back to Lucid Reality is what you think you should do, then go for it! Another comic would be awesome!!!

second guess... Bingo ^.^
I realiced while I was coloring that I completly forgot his bangages.
Oh well... Atleast noone seems to be able to notice unless I point it out *Grins* So I'll just say his shirt covers it up *Laughs*

Well there's a big chance I'm gonna do that... We'll see *Shrugs*

Anyway! *Shoves Damned back on topic*

-Vincent - Ok, so Vincent is going to make Holden a vampire, but he drinks the poison Harpy blood and dies. When do you think he figures out Holden is a harpy? It really seems like he knows before he takes that drink, and is willingly sacrificing himself. One thing though - when Vincent raped Holden, he did scratch him and make him bleed. Wouldn't he have licked up that blood and found its poison? It only makes sense... when his victim is bleeding, even if he's in the process of raping him, he would be attracted to the blood. That part I don't get. But I definitely think Vincent knew beforehand. The mental images he sends to Holden show he knows that as long as he lives, Holden will be tormented, and he's giving him another chance to be happy. Such a sad end for Vincent. but it really shows his humanity, which is what Holden was trying to get back to him.

I think a vampire have to do more than just lick a little bit harpy blood before dying... So I think that Vincent just got a little bit sick after raping Holden.
I do also think that Vincent knew Holden was a harpy then he drank his blood in the end, but I think that he tried to kill Holden. Like; If he couldn't get him, nobody should. Romeo and Juliet etc. thing. ^.^
...

- Holden/Yoshiki - It was really upsetting to me how harsh Yoshiki is, and how very unlike Holden. I felt that after Yoshiki came out of his human shell, Holden's personality was kind of gone. Harpies are known for being callous and cruel, but it was so sad to see Holden/Yoshiki like that! I guess since he's been in human guise for so long, that is why he still retains some humanity, like his love for his friends and his mate, Dom. But he's the most upsetting part of the end for me. It was just so sad... even after he went back to live with the humans, he didn't seem normal.

... and I think he succeded! Holden died with Vincent. And only Yoshiku was left. I loath Yoshiku to the depths of hell. And I also thought there was a link between the him and Holden. But as Dazza said, "I would never have guessed they were the same person" (I know it wasn't exactly what you wrote... but the content was the same XP)

- Dominick - I really feel bad for Dom more than anyone else in the comic. He was controlled by Tobias while growing up, and wasn't able to be himself, just a puppet, like the later form of Adonis... He had no idea what was going on, either, and when Holden was chased off by the demons, Dom was alone with Tobias again. Then when he was back with Holden, he seemed fine, happy, until Tobias was shown giving him orders. And Dom carried them out, killing the girl... the next parts, where Dom ends up taking Holden to Arcana's prison, was so touching.... Tobias was such a bastard for pretending Dom's dad had killed himself, and I'm glad Dom realized the truth and shot Tobias. But then the poor boy has to contend with that, plus Yoshiki's sudden dialogue with Arcana. The feeling in Dom's heart when Yoshiki tells Arcana to kill him... thank goodness there's still some Holden in there who has a plan, to kill his mother, not his mate. And about that mate part. Since when does Holden like Dom? I don't know why that is there... Maybe I missed something, but it seemed strange to me.

I didn't like Dominick. I don't know why! So when I found out that he and Yoshiku got together in the end, I just thought; 'Fine... they deserve eachother'. And I don't hope that you will loath me for saying that. But that's how i felt when I read the ending.

Moo Cow wrote:WARNING - IF YOU HAVE NOT FINISHED ARCANA AND THE SUMMARY, DON'T READ THIS, UNLESS YOU WANT SPOILERS!!!

-Vincent - Ok, so Vincent is going to make Holden a vampire, One thing though - when Vincent raped Holden, he did scratch him and make him bleed. Wouldn't he have licked up that blood and found its poison? It only makes sense...
- Holden/Yoshiki - ~Sara

maybe the transformation magic that turned Holden human, changed everything about him? Maybe, the more creatures with Arcana's powers inside them, when they were killed off, the more Harpy went back into Holdens blood? making him less human and more Harpy? A vampire would have been able to 'smell' the difference between a Harpies blood and a humans.

Dazza said.....
Holden likeing Dom... Maybe it wasn't Holden that liked Dominick but Yoshiki...? Maybe Harpys chose their mates for other reasons...? Or maybe it was all just out of want of saving him from the Harpies...?

maybe the love is a friendship love? Dom and Holden were childhood friends, well, ten year olds anyway, as far back as Holden can remember. I agree with Dazza on the possibilites of choosing a mate....just a thought.

Thanks for the replies! It's nice to see some opinions...

(OT - Dazza, I agree that your comic is awesome and beautiful, and if you want to try something else before going on, so be it. Or if you want to take a lot of time to update, that's fine too. I'll write more on Jelly creations if you want to discuss it there and not hog the 'board here. Or you can PM me, because i would like to talk about it. Anyway, back to arcana...)

I denno if he drank any of the blood, but if he did and got sick, i think he would have been suspicious of Holden's harpy nature. But you know what I think most of all? It was Holden then, Yoshiki was still hidden inside. And then he didn't really have harpy blood until he transformed. Does that make sense? That's why Vincent didn't know before. But wait, did he transform before or after killing Vincent?

I dislike Yoshiki lots, and I'm glad others agree... *shivers* Dazza, I'm with you in your thoughts - even when "holden" is back, he's not Holden anymore to me, he's Yoshiki, despite outward appearances. And that's just sad. Though Holden wasn't my favourite character I at least sympathized with him. And I didn't like Dom either by the end, since he wasn't really his own person, just a slave for Tobias and then afterwards he didn't seem to have much personality. Him and Yoshiki getting together, whether because of Holden and Dom's old friendship like you say, dodge, or Harpy issues like you said, Dazza... It's something to wonder about.

Damned,I know what you're saying, that you didn't like the ending for all those reasons... but though I didn't like it either, it fit. I couldn't imagine everything ending up better, because it's all so sad! *sniffles*

Thanks for bringing us back on topic, everyone, I appreciate it. I love all of you on the forum, too! *hugs everyone*

~Sara

Oh yay this is exciting- we havent ever really sat down and talked about everything- its very cool to read everyones interpretations and i hope you dont mind reading mine...

I think everyone is pretty much right with Yoshiki- I was also terribly disappointed that Holden turned out to be Yoshiki and I was super shocked too coz it was totally unexpected... It was strange and weird coz how can you be two different people.. i suppose split personalities... anyways, I too didnt like Holden when he was Yoshiki because it wasnt the sweet nice Holden that we all knew and loved... he was definately different when he chose Dom for his mate.

I must agree with Lupin on Dom- he was never one of my favourite characters but I did feel sorry for his life- being controlled by Tobias and being taken over by that demon when he was young and having to kill those people... one thing which annoyed me though was that if she was a vampire shouldn't she have killed him if he were just a human? i dunno unless she was trying to deny that she was a vampire and was unaware of her skills.?... anyways yes...

Vincent too must have realised that Holden was a Harpy before he tried to kill him coz doesnt Kisoka run after them and yell for Vincent to stop and then doesnt he look up at her and smile and then try to turn Holden? I have to go back and reread the summary again...

You are right Sara the ending was kinda crappy for everyone- i really disliked Dominick and Holden/Yoshiki together, and nothing happened between Caine and Azriel! (lol) but like you said it did fit in with the dark genre of the comic, Arcana

*bounces gleefuly* Yes, more opinions!

I have no more to add about Yoshiki, besides my anger and upset... Boo. No more intelligent commentary from me on that, sorry.


But Dom, I never know how he feels. By the end, does he even want to be with Holden? He's not gay, and HOlden should have lost some of that attraction factor, I thought. But about his childhood... it's really a shame. And Tobias killing his dad because his dad held some of arcana's power, then taking in Dom... Very cruel. In terms of Dom and the vampire girl, She was kind of surprised I think when he snuck up on her. I don't know how he was even ableto kill her though, since Vampires are so hard to kill... Actually, why did he have to kill her? Because she didnt kill her friend who had held some of QArcana's power?

That point in the summary is what made me know Vincent knew. I still think it's so sweet him sacrificing himself so Holden can be happy... unfortunately, though, Holden doesn't end up that happy after all...

I'm glad you think the ending fits, despite it being so sad! *hugs Hope and cries*

~Sara

*cries with Sara* i remember reading the start at school and then reading the rest at home and i cried!! it was sad but true to the sotry i suppose...

Yes i suppose that must have been the reason for Dom killing that vampire girl then. Because didnt Tobias order him to? Or did Dom do it on his own coz he thought it would make Tobias happy?? Yes i agree with that.. i dont think he should have been able to kill her coz she WAS a vampire and like she couldn't have just easily killed him?? i dunno.. kinda suss...

I think Holden needed to be with Vincent, but Yoshiki just wanted one of his former life's(Holden's) friends, which happened to be Dom, because he was already attracted to Holden (despite denying it) and Dom was there... i dunno maybe Yoshiki had been planning to have Dom all along??

*Pokes the Moo Cow* How do you know Dom isn't gay?
I don't remember it stating anywhere that he was or wasn't Gay...
Actually the only one I ever remember reading it stated for was Holden. It has never said anything about the sexual attractions of anyone else within the story.
Nu?

Well he actualy says that hes not gay but maybe he is but he hasnt come out of the closet yet? Maybe he was also just trying to deny his attraction towards Holden, since he's known him for like ever...

Tobias did order Dom to kill her, and that's the best reason I guess. Maybe he used a stake? I don't know. He may have.

You may be right about Yoshiki wanting to be with someone from his former life... plus, he knows it's because of Dom and Tobias that he was able to kill his mother and break free from her, since the power returning to her was what made her try to kill holden and reflect back on her... and Dom had helped kill people to get the power back... I denno. But they were friends back then. And Dazza, I'm pretty sure Dom said he wasn't gay, but that was to Kisoka and Holden at different times... hold on let me find the page.

~Sara

I can remember when he says it to Kisoka- i was trying to find the page but Kisoka says something like: "When it comes to Holden, its best to go with your hormones" or feelings or something along those lines and Dom says "But Im not gay." and then im preety sure thats when Kisoka says "And neither's that bassist on stage" (meaning Sloane) oh yay i found it!! Here:

http://arcana.keenspace.com/d/20020825.html

*Grumbles*

Why... why!!! If he didn't get together wirth sweet Vincent. Then why not Sloane... *SCHNIFF*

Well as said. I didn't remember it *lol*

Gee it's been a while since I read it. Can't remember everything o.o'

Yep, Hope found it! *pets her* I was in the process of looking it up when making that last post but I got kicked off the comp. *snuggles Lupin* I know, he and Vincent shouild have been together!!! Nyuuuu!

~Sara

.:+: Gets snuggled and snuggles back :+:.

or sloane...

no... wait, I want sloane... he looks like Graham Coxon *DROOLs* and they are both guitarists