March 26, 2005 - History Lesson - The Tales of Dr. Spock.

Zorro · Post by **Zorro** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:54 pm

The Tales of Dr. Spock. This was YEARS before Star Trek!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Spock

Dr. Benjamin Spock Caused a MOUNTAIN of damage to the children and Mothers that listened to this QUACK!

All this BS that RH tells in a "No Sueable Way" is true.

Emotion and out right Quackery was spouted as Dogma to MILLIONS of nervous mothers in the 60s.

I am the son of an Army Drill Sergeant. It Didn't Take.

But there are about 25 Million Dummies Living that DID believe the Quackery!

SolidusRaccoon · Post by **SolidusRaccoon** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 4:39 am

Heh, Yeah Dr. Spock really messed people up. Damn him and his green blood.

Tbolt · Post by **Tbolt** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:05 am

Unless I miss my guess, I think Dr. Spock wrote a second book after he actually had to deal with children on his own. Something to the tune of "I was wrong, spank the little buggers!"

I may be wrong, I believe I heard this on the radio.....

SolidusRaccoon · Post by **SolidusRaccoon** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:19 am

Tbolt wrote:Unless I miss my guess, I think Dr. Spock wrote a second book after he actually had to deal with children on his own. Something to the tune of "I was wrong, spank the little buggers!"

I may be wrong, I believe I heard this on the radio.....

Heh heh, he needs a good smacking himself.

StrangeWulf13 · Post by **StrangeWulf13** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:34 am

Oh, so he was the idiot who started that whole "no spanking" movement? Or at least helped it along?

Sheesh, they just don't get it. Kids tend to act like bullies when they're young. Take away their toys and they'll find some way to entertain themselves. The only way to really get your message across about what's good or bad is to spank them. Open hand, right on the butt. I mean, think about it, where else can you hit a kid to cause them pain without seriously hurtin' them?

I, for one, think God made butts for that reason: to be spanked so that parents can enforce their rules on them, thus training them as to how they should behave. I know that my dad sure believed in it.

And as for any idiots who think spanking "squelches a kid's personality", I fully believe my personality was "squelched" far more in government, er, I mean public school than it ever was at home. My parents knew how far to go. My classmates had no such interest in my welfare.

I don't care how hard it is, I'm gonna home-school every one of my kids...

Greatbeast · Post by **Greatbeast** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:11 am

I would avoid the home schooling.....

You have obviously never met anyone who was home schooled...I have. Not a one of them are ever socially right in the head.

SolidusRaccoon · Post by **SolidusRaccoon** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:12 am

Bless you Wulf, same here no public err government schools for my family. Home school or a private school where the parents can get a teacher fired on the spot and have control over what is taught.

RHJunior · Post by **RHJunior** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:31 am

greatbeast wrote:I would avoid the home schooling.....

You have obviously never met anyone who was home schooled...I have. Not a one of them are ever socially right in the head.

I have.

I happen to have been homeschooled my final year or so.

Likewise, my sister.

You've probably met thousands of homeschooled individuals, greatbeast, and never known it--- you just remember the one you met that was "messed up in the head" (which was probably why he or she was homeschooled in the first place!)

The first attack against homeschoolers by the teachers' unions was that "they aren't recieving a quality education."

Then the homeschoolers started mopping the floor with public and private schooled kids in every type of scholastic test. SAT, GED, the national spelling bees, the works.

So they shifted the attack to "socialization."

They recently did a comprehensive study of the first generation of homeschoolers-- who are now out as adults, holding jobs and raising families. Surprise: homeschoolers on average are better adjusted, more social and involved, better mannered, better able to relate to people of EVERY age group, and overall are better rounded and more emotionally healthy than their public school counterparts.

Seems--- shock and awe-- being raised by your parents instead of a mob of delinquent children and a handful of disinterested union flunkeys is GOOD for you!

Mjolnir · Post by **Mjolnir** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:45 am

Just out of curiosity, how much does home schooling children cost? Obviously, private schooling cost whatever the school charges, but I'm curious as to the bottom line of home schooling.

- Mjolnir

P.S. I consider myself fairly well adjusted and well educated even though I was raised by a mob of diliquent children and union flunkies.

Kerry Skydancer · Post by **Kerry Skydancer** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:56 am

The primary cost is the opportunity cost of a spouse not having a paying job. Beyond that, it can be as low as a couple hundred a year or as high as you like. Minimum cost is for age-appropriate workbooks; for most subjects you can get texts from a public library or old but still useful ones from a cooperative school district. If you have the cash to spend, you can add music or other specialized lessons, athletic clubs for the older ones in lieu of after-school sports, all sorts of things.

The disadvantage is that the parent doing the teaching has to stay on top of the subjects, too. I'd consider this a big disadvantage for science and math for most people once you get to the high school level, but... most kids don't get anything useful out of high school science in the first place. The union flunkeys mostly don't understand it either, and the curricula mandate trivia rather than logical analysis and skeptical thought. They teach the current best-guess rather than the process; and the process is useful outside of science. (For analyzing news reports and political speeches, forex... I wonder why it is again that they don't emphasize this...?)

Mjolnir · Post by **Mjolnir** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:07 am

Yeah, I figured the part about the spouse staying home. I doubt we'd be able to afford it anytime in the future, since we need both incomes to pay bills. But, since we don't have kids yet, we still have time.

As to the science and math at a HS level, that would not be a problem for us. Both my wife and I have degrees in Engineering. You don't get one of those unless your science and math skills are pretty decent.

Then again, I went thru public school and managed to get a couple of advanced degrees, so I don't buy the "all public schools are evil" bit. Sure, it's not the same as the parents, but they do a decent job. Of course, my parents were involved with my homework and school projects, which might make the difference.

And the fact that I watched TV with my parents helped, too. Yes, I watched the typical kids stuff, but I also watched the 6 o'clock news every night with my parents. In fact, I don't remember a time when I was younger that one of my parents wasn't with me when the TV was on. And, of course, when you watch TV with your children, you don't need a V-chip.

- Mjolnir

SolidusRaccoon · Post by **SolidusRaccoon** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:12 am

greatbeast wrote:I would avoid the home schooling.....

You have obviously never met anyone who was home schooled...I have. Not a one of them are ever socially right in the head.

Oh yes, getting shoves down the stairs and the gym teacher looking the other way because he feels you "have it comming" wouldn't mess someone up. Or the same gym teacher lowering your grades out of spite.
Or the class of jocks that can;t be touched by the school or the law because they play football.

You shill, the public school system is an abomination.

Kerry Skydancer · Post by **Kerry Skydancer** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:17 am

SolidusRaccoon wrote:
Oh yes, getting shoves down the stairs and the gym teacher looking the other way because he feels you "have it comming" wouldn't mess someone up. Or the same gym teacher lowering your grades out of spite.
Or the class of jocks that can;t be touched by the school or the law because they play football.

You shill, the public school system is an abomination.

Some are, some aren't. But that's the way to bet....

SolidusRaccoon · Post by **SolidusRaccoon** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:26 am

Kerry Skydancer wrote:
SolidusRaccoon wrote:
Oh yes, getting shoves down the stairs and the gym teacher looking the other way because he feels you "have it comming" wouldn't mess someone up. Or the same gym teacher lowering your grades out of spite.
Or the class of jocks that can;t be touched by the school or the law because they play football.

You shill, the public school system is an abomination.
Some are, some aren't. But that's the way to bet....

I'm not bitter or resentful, am I?

Marcus Talbain · Post by **Marcus Talbain** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:55 am

greatbeast wrote:I would avoid the home schooling.....

You have obviously never met anyone who was home schooled...I have. Not a one of them are ever socially right in the head.

I and most of my friends are homeschooled I would like to think that we are reasonably socially well adjusted, I have what I believe to be a healthy social life, (mostly wargaming, LAN parties, shooting, archery, and hunting). However I live in Alaska and homeschooling is much more common up here than down in the lower 48.

Mjolnir wrote:Just out of curiosity, how much does home schooling children cost? Obviously, private schooling cost whatever the school charges, but I'm curious as to the bottom line of home schooling.

- Mjolnir

P.S. I consider myself fairly well adjusted and well educated even though I was raised by a mob of diliquent children and union flunkies.

It depends on how you do it, up here we have IDEA, (Interior Distance Education Association) which is a division of the public school system that basically pays for homeschooling. I know that some states down in the lower 48 have similar programs, you may want to look into seeing if there is one in your state. Aside from that it can vary greatly, from a few hundred to several thousand depending on what programs you choose, and there is a Very large selection.

SolidusRaccoon · Post by **SolidusRaccoon** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:11 pm

^ Ya see? hoorah for home schooling.

Persephone_Kore · Post by **Persephone_Kore** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:44 pm

I was homeschooled through fifth grade, went to a small private school run by my family's church in sixth grade, then switched to public school when the private one decided to focus more on the younger kids and dropped grades 6-8.

I did, I will grant, have some trouble getting used to the large group -- I'm on the introverted side naturally, really; my brother had to drag me into playing with him instead of reading by myself. And I knew several of the kids from Sunday school, they just didn't act the same.

I liked the public school just fine once I got to it, mostly. There were annoying things; there were also some really fun ones. But I was in a good system with some pretty fantastic teachers.

Capnregex · Post by **Capnregex** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:46 pm

RHJunior wrote: They recently did a comprehensive study of the first generation of homeschoolers-- who are now out as adults, holding jobs and raising families. Surprise: homeschoolers on average are better adjusted, more social and involved, better mannered, better able to relate to people of EVERY age group, and overall are better rounded and more emotionally healthy than their public school counterparts.

Do you have a reference to that study RH? I'd like to read it.
I have four boys 6, 4, 2 and 1. and we (My wife and I) are home-schooling.
I'm also working on developing some aids for other parents who wish to do the same.

Jwrebholz · Post by **Jwrebholz** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:20 pm

I wish I'd been homeschooled. My high school was Hell on earth. I was one of those kids who looked and acted just different enough to be singled out by the entire populace and ridiculed.

Anyone who tells you kids are perfect sweet little angels has obviously never had to deal with them. Children are selfish, spiteful cruel people, often starving for attention and will do anything to get it. A mob of kids will find the one that's different, that thinks for his or herself instead of toeing the line, single them out and ridicule him or her as a group. Often one will begin to torment the youth, and others will soon follow. I experienced it firsthand.

I learned quickly that in public school you blend in or else. Do anything you can to fit in. Don't go to extremes of any type. If you excel at academics you'll be ridiculed. If you are poor at academics you'll be ridiculed. If you're poor at athletics you'll be humiliated and ridiculed. The only thing it's acceptable to excel in is sports programs, because then you're "cool". I was never an athlete. In fact I had a fascination for computer technology (in a time before PCs had really taken off) and wore thick glasses. All I needed were pants up to my chest and penny loafers and I'd have been the white Steve Urkel. It isn't hard to figure out what happened.

The overglorified babysitters we had for teachers were no better. I have yet to meet anyone who cared less about their job than those in employment at my high school. The faculty, staff and administration turned a blind eye to what they knew was going on in the halls and classrooms. You would think the day some other singled-out kid brought a Colt .45 revolver into school would have been a wake-up call. Nope. Kid arrested, incident brushed under the rug and that was that.

Our district wasn't exactly poor (middle to upper-middle-class). Yet somehow they didn't have money for art or music programs, while having plenty of cash to buy the football team brand-new workout equipment every year.

Bitter? Me? NAH.

CasVeg · Post by **CasVeg** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:55 pm

Of course, there are exceptions to every rule (including this one?). Take me, for instance:

My parents used to spank me; they stopped when they realized that it didn't work. As it turns out, I have a mild form of autism. Autistics don't always respond to pain like normal people. For the most part, we can ignore it unless there's real damage going on. So, when I got spanked, I didn't cry; I just laid there, bored and slightly annoyed. Usually I just ignored the spanking and concentrated on whatever lesson my parents were trying to instill in me (usually). Putting me in corner didn't really work, either. I'd find ways to entertain myself even if there wasn't reading material plastered all over the classroom walls (which there usually was). And detention. . . In detention they expected me to keep to myself and do homework. I'm a silence-loving introverted math-addicted bibliophile; I don't mind opening up a textbook and reading at random; I work equations for fun. So, I can do what ever I want and no one will bother me? I even get a huge desk all to myself? And this is punishment? It's more fun than recess! (Well, not really. In fact, it's not all that different from what I did at recess, just minus the dirt.)