How would we react?

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Maxgoof
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Post by Maxgoof »

Tom Mazanec wrote:I think the recent posts here give us a taste of what some Christian denominations here would do and say. Expect fireworks if this REALLY happened!
Right. I'm not trying to start a fight, merely to present the problem.

Since Racconans do not exist except in the fertile mind of RHJ and his readers, there is, as yet, no problem.
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Aurrin
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Post by Aurrin »

maxgoof wrote:Rebuttal: I Cor: 21-22: For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. For just as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

So, if death came to the Racconans by a racconan, the resurrection of the dead must *ALSO* come through a Racconan.
Logical Synopsis:

Fact 1: Adam's fall hurts all mankind.

Fact 2: Christ saves all of Adam's descedents.

Conclusion: Rac'cona must have a rac'conan to save them.

Underlying assumptions:

1) Christ is unable to save Rac'cona at the same time

Unsubstantiated. Further, putting limitations on God is a very big 'no-no'.

2) The messiah must be of the same species as the fallen

Faulty generalization. Not only is there no outright statement of this anywhere, but there is no additional emperical evidence to uphold the generalization. One datapoint does not a rule make.

Once again, refuted.
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Maxgoof
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Post by Maxgoof »

Aurrin wrote:Underlying assumptions:

1) Christ is unable to save Rac'cona at the same time

Unsubstantiated. Further, putting limitations on God is a very big 'no-no'.
Unsubstantiated: If God has no limits, and his love has no limits, what is stopping him from saving everyone without Christ? What stopped him from preventing the fall? If God can do whatever he wants without limit, why do we see evil at all?
2) The messiah must be of the same species as the fallen

Faulty generalization. Not only is there no outright statement of this anywhere, but there is no additional emperical evidence to uphold the generalization. One datapoint does not a rule make.

Once again, refuted.
Not refuted. If the verse in I Corrinthians does not say that Jesus was a man because Adam was a man, then the verse has no meaning whatsoever. In addition, no other species requires salvation. Recall all the rest of creation is not waiting for Christ, but for the rest of Humanity to be saved.
Max Goof
"You gotta be loose...relaxed...with your feet apart, and...Ten o'clock. Two o'clock. Quarter to three! Tour jete! Twist! Over! Pas de deux! I'm a little teapot! And the windup...and let 'er fly! The Perfect Cast!" --Goofy

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Aurrin
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Post by Aurrin »

maxgoof wrote:If God has no limits, and his love has no limits, what is stopping him from saving everyone without Christ?
It has limits, but the limits are ones self-imposed. YOU, on the other hand, are in no position to place a limit on Him.
maxgoof wrote:What stopped him from preventing the fall? If God can do whatever he wants without limit, why do we see evil at all?
Because people must have the right to chose. If they did not, then loving God would be forced, which is not what He wanted.
maxgoof wrote:Not refuted. If the verse in I Corrinthians does not say that Jesus was a man because Adam was a man, then the verse has no meaning whatsoever.
Incorrect. You assume 'man' refers to literal human species. This is not necessarily so. It could be, but is not proovable. If the meaning is, in fact, 'person' (which covers all species of sentient beings), the meaning is very much intact.
maxgoof wrote:In addition, no other species requires salvation. Recall all the rest of creation is not waiting for Christ, but for the rest of Humanity to be saved.
1) No other species that we are aware of. That leaves much, much room.

2) No species we are aware of is sapient, let alone fallen. Thus, how could we be expected to see an example? Lack of an example indicates only lack of data, not proof.

Further, examine closely the text:
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(emphasis mine)

There is no specification whatsoever that only humans would be affected, either by Adam's sin or by Christ's death. Indeed, the term used is widely inclusive. Given that humans interacted with the Rac'cona, why should we be so quick to assume that sin would follow species lines?
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Tom Mazanec
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Post by Tom Mazanec »

Funny, I had a dream that I was handling that very stained glass window last night!

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Post by Yuoofox »

Yay, go Aurrin go! :-) Just so you know, I'm of the same persuasion that Aurrin is, althought I probably wouldn't use big words like "unsubstantiated" and "faulty generalization" myself. ;) Still, I'm glad to have someone to cheer on.

But MaxGoof, you're doing a good job too. :) I respect your point of view, and you're bringing up questions that need to be asked, even though we all might have different answers to them.

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Post by Sharuuk »

Going slightly back to the original query..."How would we react" to the Rac Cona?

I have a simpler way of asking......what do you think the reaction would be to US if we were seen by humans as our actual characters and avatars?

What do you think would be the first reaction and follow-up action to a gigantic bi-pedal anthro-wolf? Or a jaguar, or Lynx or ANY of us?

Is there any doubt that the first action would be to either capture us for "study".....or kill us outright out of ignorant fear.

JAM, Luna and I would all be terrifying to see......ESPECIALLY when the one(s) who saw us figured out that we weren't wearing costumes!

Do you know who wouldn't be afraid...aside from the ones on this forum? Children. One of the things I've always found facinating is at cons that I've been in full makeup.....toddlers and small children are the least afraid and most intrigued by the "man wolf". They pull on their parents arm to come over to see me and as I kneel down, they're reaching up to touch my face, lift my lip to see my fangs and stroke my mane.....they are fearless and haven't learned prejudice yet.....it's amazing.

S'aaruuk

I'm actually ashamed to say this, but outside of a few people, I've lost all faith in mankind to act with any rational thought processes or logic to something as unique and unsettling as sentient, sapient anthros. :(
We are NOT surrounded.....this is a "target rich" environment!

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Post by NydaLynn »

Kids are really somthing special.
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Post by SolidusRaccoon »

Well the best bet would be for them to move somewhere where they could live in solitude. Alaska would be the best bet. Then slowly, very slowy intoduce them to the world.
Yes, sir. I agree completely. It takes a well-balanced individual... such as yourself to rule the world. No, sir. No one knows that you were the third one... Solidus. ...What should I do about the woman? Yes sir. I'll keep her under surveillance. Yes. Thank you. Good-bye...... Mr. President.

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Post by Maxgoof »

And that is where the argument would reside--when the Bible says "men" is it referring only to humans, or to all fallen scentient creatures?

Faced with another scentient being, all kinds of theological questions would arise, the one I pointed out being only one.

This would becomes increasingly difficult if the scentient creatures did not display the kinds of behaviors we would call "fallen". Even more so if they did not display the kinds of behaviors we would call "sacred".
Max Goof
"You gotta be loose...relaxed...with your feet apart, and...Ten o'clock. Two o'clock. Quarter to three! Tour jete! Twist! Over! Pas de deux! I'm a little teapot! And the windup...and let 'er fly! The Perfect Cast!" --Goofy

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Post by Wayfarer »

I wonder if in something like this a useful distinction could be made between acting and reacting here. It seems to me that the most difficult part of what we're discussing would be reacting while still under the initial shock of facing something so completely out of the ordinary. The questions (either conscious thoughts or unconscious dilemmas) of, "What am I supposed to do with this?" "What kind are the dynamics of this interaction? How can I know what to expect of them?" and even "But... if this, what next?" can very easily throw one off balance when first reacting to something. Goodness, I can get thrown off balance when just an average person talks to me when I wasn't expecting it! And in those situations, when an immediate reaction is required of me, I often rely on stock conversationally polite responses until I can adjust and actually start acting along with the situation. (And yes, I know I'm socially inept.) But when you have no stock, safe responses on hand, the chances of reacting improperly increase, the fear of reacting improperly increases, and a mind preoccupied with these questions and uncertainties is awkward at best (I should know).

On the other hand, I think it can make a difference when one has had a chance to resolve some of the questions/dilemmas of what to do with the new situation. When the inital, immediate, and unprepared (I think the unprepared part is actually the key) reaction point is past, there is more of an opportunity to actually act in a thoughtful and reasoned manner.

Just a thought (sorta like the whole post), but maybe the difference with children - especially the very young ones - is that so many situations are new to them that they are more in practice, so to speak, when it comes to reacting to a new situation. Maybe small children, at least to a certain extent, almost expect to encounter new situations.
I do think this depends on the child, though. I think there's still a variance as to how they react to new situations, and even a difference in how they react to different types of new situations. I seem to remember being uncomfortable, for example, around costumed people as a child. On the other hand, I actually was a bold and outgoing little kid, especially when it came to people and to exploring. But you also get kids who are shy, or afraid of some new things. I really do think it depends.

Okay, end long, possibly applicable quasi-reflection-analysisamagig.

As far as the scenario of us as our avatars, yeah, there would be some around here people would have "interesting" reactions to. As for me, as a girl in a cloak, I'd just get annoying movie assotiations. (Yep, speaking from experience, here.)
Oh, well, maybe one day I'll choose something furry to be. I think I'd end up being a chipmunk. :D
Don't think anyone would be afraid of that, though, either. Hmmm...
“The mirror may tell us what we are; memory may tell us what we were; but only the imagination can tell us what we might be.” – Donald Keesey

“You go whistling in the dark/ Making light of it/ Making light of it/ And I follow with my heart/ Laughing all the way// Oh 'cause you move me/ You get me dancing and you make me sing/ You move me/ Now I'm taking delight/ In every little thing/ How you move me”
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Post by Sharuuk »

I think a 5' tall chipmunk might get someone's attention. :wink:

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Post by SolidusRaccoon »

Sharuuk wrote:I think a 5' tall chipmunk might get someone's attention. :wink:

S'aaruuk
In a Disney theme park they would blend right in.
Yes, sir. I agree completely. It takes a well-balanced individual... such as yourself to rule the world. No, sir. No one knows that you were the third one... Solidus. ...What should I do about the woman? Yes sir. I'll keep her under surveillance. Yes. Thank you. Good-bye...... Mr. President.

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Post by Sharuuk »

SolidusRaccoon wrote:
Sharuuk wrote:I think a 5' tall chipmunk might get someone's attention. :wink:

S'aaruuk
In a Disney theme park they would blend right in.
Touche'.....good point :D but I don't think she'd wanna spend the rest of her life there. :wink:

S'aaruuk
We are NOT surrounded.....this is a "target rich" environment!

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Post by SolidusRaccoon »

Or live where there are a lot of hippies, see the hippies will be so drugged up they will not notice anything other than their usual hallucinations.
Yes, sir. I agree completely. It takes a well-balanced individual... such as yourself to rule the world. No, sir. No one knows that you were the third one... Solidus. ...What should I do about the woman? Yes sir. I'll keep her under surveillance. Yes. Thank you. Good-bye...... Mr. President.

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Post by Sharuuk »

SolidusRaccoon wrote:Or live where there are a lot of hippies, see the hippies will be so drugged up they will not notice anything other than their usual hallucinations.
Lets you 'n' me go find a hippie commune.......wanna bet on we turn a couple of 'ems acid trips into a nightmare? I'll see if I can get JAM, Luna and StrangeWulf to come along for the fun!:o :lol: :lol:

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We are NOT surrounded.....this is a "target rich" environment!

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Post by Wayfarer »

:lol: Have fun.

My only comment - as I'd only be a chipmunk online, there's really no reason I'd need to be 5' tall. I could be a normal-sized chipmunk.

Which could be really good for scurrying away into small spaces in case of an explosion...

Or maybe I could change sizes... hmmmm, that could be fun...

But as things stand, I'm not tired of being a girl in a cloak yet.
“The mirror may tell us what we are; memory may tell us what we were; but only the imagination can tell us what we might be.” – Donald Keesey

“You go whistling in the dark/ Making light of it/ Making light of it/ And I follow with my heart/ Laughing all the way// Oh 'cause you move me/ You get me dancing and you make me sing/ You move me/ Now I'm taking delight/ In every little thing/ How you move me”
~ "You Move Me"
Pierce Pettis, Gordon Kennedy

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SolidusRaccoon
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Post by SolidusRaccoon »

Reminds me of college, the house I lived in also had some stoners in it, I messed with their heads so much. I had them convinced the place was haunted. Nothing like a 6 + foot guy quaking in fear.
Yes, sir. I agree completely. It takes a well-balanced individual... such as yourself to rule the world. No, sir. No one knows that you were the third one... Solidus. ...What should I do about the woman? Yes sir. I'll keep her under surveillance. Yes. Thank you. Good-bye...... Mr. President.

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Post by NydaLynn »

Changing sizes could be fun. I myself am sometimes a kyoot little black fox kit online... Yeah... I know... I don't have an avatar yet. I seriously have been meaning to make one f a cute little black fox kit. Just haven't gotten around too it.
LOL I am so lazy that my baby bro and baby sister might be up sor a looong time. lol
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Post by Yuoofox »

LOL I am so lazy that my baby bro and baby sister might be up sor a looong time. lol
Well, it's a nice picture. :-) We don't mind.

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