Oooh Crap Pt. 2

[Bo Lindbergh]

It's obviously time to link to one of the classics: [url=http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/loth/n/e/ ... e.jpg.html]Klich

[DracoDei]

[quote="Bo Lindbergh"]It's obviously time to link to one of the classics: [url=http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/loth/n/e/ ... e.jpg.html]Klich

[RHJunior]

people have thrashed that "chainmail bikini" joke for so long...... well, I won't say they're beating a dead horse but at this point they've worn it down to the hooves.

Here's another stupid cliche for you--- battle armor, powered, medieval, or otherwise--- with giant metal boobs hammered out in the front.. the only possible use for such a feature would be some chauvenistic hazing ritual.



While we're talkling cliche's, lets hit a few more...

Laser/plasma/energy swords. Yes, they looked really cool in "Star Wars." Get OVER it. Even ignoring the fact that you can't slash SIDEWAYS through something with a linear BEAM, a weapon like that would consume enough juice to power a small town. You'd need something akin to a nuclear reactor in the handle.... in which case you'd be better off just setting the thing to overload, throwing the thing at your opponent, and letting the blast vaporize everything in a ten-foot radius. But even ignoring THAT, you've got a weapon with NO RANGE in a world full of people with things like guns and bombs. Yeah yeah, a Jedi can deflect blaster bolts--- how well does he handle machine gun spray? Or shotgun blasts? Or shrapnel?

"Mismatched" or "ragtag" parties--- Knight Ranger Cleric Thief Barbarian Wizard--- that just HAPPEN to be flung together on some great quest. Okay, it's been done so long that it's OBVIOUS that it's a "team setup." It's been done with everything from fantasy heroes to preadolescent dinosaurs. It's worn THIN.
Obviously this is going to happen from time to time, and there are obvious advantages to a diverse party that will make some characters choose such a mix deliberately for whatever adventure they set out on. But just once or twice, could we maybe see a team with more in common than the tavern they all stumbled into one dark and stormy night? Or at least with more than one thing alone to unite them..... Call it a hunch but I think that rangers would tend to hang with rangers, knights with knights, wizards with wizards--- I would love to see someone OTHER than Terry Pratchett write a classic fantasy about a team of nothing but wizards going on an adventure--- and racewise, dwarves would stick with dwarves, elves with elves, etc.

And what band of heroes in their right minds would hire a THIEF for ANYTHING? "Hi, we're a team of shmucks. Accompany us into the wilderness where you can rob us blind in our sleep and then abandon us to our fate."

Old, senile, enfeebled, or otherwise physically useless wizards. Look, the Evil Dark Warlord managed to harness incredible arcane powers, yet still stay in good shape and learn to wield a sword and armor at the same time! You think maybe occasionally a wizard with the armies of Light would manage the same trick? And don't give me "the dark side is quicker and easier to gain power from"... anyone who's going to be lazy enough to take dangerous, quickie shortcuts to power isn't going to have the DISCIPLINE to learn martial skills or stick to an exercise regimen.

Scrawny, geeky, awkward "nerd" wizards or apprentices. Yeah, yeah, Gary Sue, get over it... Look, there's occasionally got to be a relatively handsome and socially ept wizard who ISN'T in league with the Dark Forces, otherwise the breed would die out. Women don't go for clutzy dorks, no matter how many magic missiles they can cast, and darkly handsome evil wizards always go after the woman who'd rather kick his nuts flat than marry him. And the comedy value of such characters long ago ran out.

WRYLY SELF-AWARE META-NARRATIVE CHARACTERS. It's the big kick nowadays for lazy writers who want to "satire" the fantasy genre: insert a character who constantly comments on the ludicrous nature of the fantasy cliche's they and their associates are blundering into. Said character should be sarcastic, catty, obnoxious, and should be the ONLY one who is aware of the "ridiculousness" of the situation, no matter how loudly they point it out. Statements like "oh, let me guess, this is the part where the evil overlord dies and his castle inexplicably falls to pieces around our ears while we run for our lives" should be delivered as often as possible.
IT IS NOT SATIRE TO HAVE YOUR CHARACTERS CONSTANTLY COMMENT ON HOW DUMB THE GENRE IS FROM INSIDE THE STORY. It's just ANNOYING. For that matter, writing 300 pages of nothing but mockery of the genre isn't clever, or witty, or proof of what a great wordsmith you are. It just tells everyone what they already know: 1)You hate fantasy 2)You haven't got the talent to improve on it 3) so you resort to writing several hundred pages of "this stinks and you're dumb for liking it" to cover your own overflowing abundance of SUCK.


These are just a few of my least favorite fantasy cliche's... name one or two you've seen.

[Mad Mike]

And what band of heroes in their right minds would hire a THIEF for ANYTHING? "Hi, we're a team of shmucks. Accompany us into the wilderness where you can rob us blind in our sleep and then abandon us to our fate."

<Mad Mike falls to the floor, laughing hysterically>

[Squirrelly61104]

One cliche' I've seen many times is one the Hayes might be guilty of here.
I am familiar only with modern, decorative candles.
In movie after movie, I see someone walking, or even running, with a candelabra, and the candles do not go out!
I assume that in a society that employs candles for actual light the candles would be hardier, but still!

Side note: torches also piss me off. Someone in a movie picks up a chunk of wood, holds a match to it, and poof, instant light.
A few years back I played the old 'scary story by the campfire' bit with some neighboorhood kids. A dog suddenly started howling, causing the kids to jump out of their skins. Quickly, I grabbed a handy piece of wood and thrust it into the blazing fire. I then strode forth to protect the children with...
an unlit chunk of wood.
The kids wound up laughing themselves silly, as I spent several long minutes, singing myself trying to get a dry piece of wood to light up like a torch.

Post script: lets hope colin isn't batting a thousand here, with his 'the beds always safe' and 'they can't stand candle light.' It would be sadly ironic if one of the rats lust leaned over went 'whoof', blowing out the candle.

[Mad Mike]

These are just a few of my least favorite fantasy cliche's... name one or two you've seen.

How about the Deus Ex Machina:

"Well, Dorothy, you had the power to go home all along - just click your heels three times, and say 'There's no place like home.'"

<Dorothy uses the ruby slippers to beat Glenda the Good Witch unconscious>

[DracoDei]

Women don't go for clutzy dorks, no matter how many magic missiles they can cast, and darkly handsome evil wizards always go after the woman who'd rather kick his nuts flat than marry him.

So you are trying to tell me Bill Gates DOESN'T have fan girls?!?
But I agree that social skills and mental strength (of whatever type) are not necessarily mutually exclusive. This is even moreso true for good looks.


Actually, regardless of whether the fictional society happens to be male-dominated, on of my main peeves is the that far too many fantasy heroes seem to be confirmed 'rugged bachlor(ette)' types. I mean I can kinda see were it would fit as a general tendency... but the proportion is way too great for my liking... then again, this might be a sign of the times in that few seem to beleive in lifelong monogamy these days so living the wild life works... but I would think that at least SOME of these busty lasses who are wily enough to survive would also be wily enough to sort out a reasonably SINCERE admirer from the hordes and one with potiential that they could train him to the point that he wouldn't get sliced open by some nasty the first time she turned her back on him... actually, that doesn't really work so well since 'the pill' has no equivalent in most fantasy settings and that can put some cramps in the adventuring lifestyle... Anyway, I actually run a D&D campaign that is BASED AROUND most of the characters getting married (to Non-Player Character's) (not that this is the easiest thing in the world since I lack social skills... but stretching myself where I am weak is part of the point!). I don't want to give away all my ideas in such a public place, but let's just say that there are very good plot reasons why the characters would WANT to all get married. As for Quentin... he is rather young yet, and is showing reasonably constructive development in that area (which isn't to say that he WILL at any point, simply that he CERTAINLY hasn't eliminated the idea of marriage from his concepts of the future, regardless of whether he has specifically included them).

[UncleMonty]

I'm no expert of the genre, but one thing that seems overdone in wizard's battles is the back-and-forth of "fire a beam of energy" - " block with an invisible shield"... I mean, really.

Imagine the tiny amount of energy it would take to disable a person, given the ability to move objects at a distance. Objects like - internal organs...

As I see it, a wizard's war would mostly rely on defense and would be waged rather quietly, with nobody knowing who was winning until the loser fell over and died.

[Squeaky Bunny]

Personally I liked the one between Merlin and Mad Madam Mimm.

[UncleMonty]

Truely an epic battle.

Hordes of darkness, thunderstorm outside, wounded hero...

You know what this calls for?

Choirs singing in Latin... they make everything so much cooler.

How about...
O Fortuna (Carmen Burana)?
It's a classic, I say!

[Aurrin]

[rant-fox mode = on]

RPG Cliches that absolutely make Aurrin want to stab through the internet:

How about ninjas: If I never see another ninja character, it'll be too soon.

Katanas: Those tick me off sooooo badly from overuse... I mean, EVERYONE uses one.

Twin ______: Twin weapons (bladed or firearm) with single-word dictionary names of gloom and doom or holy light are the epitomy of cliche.

Sephiroth clones: combine the previous two and scale up the sword to unholy size. Dark and brooding, mass murderer with no apparent reason to join other than he's unthinkably cool. If this crosses my desk as a GM for an RPG, it's an auto reject.

Angel-Demon hybrids:
.... why? In God's name... WHY?! Do they just *try* to come up with the stupidest ideas they can?

Half-baked bios:
"Deep in the brazil rainforest there lives a tribe of samurai..." -exerpt from an actual bio submitted for my approval. This one simply needs no comment.

gods:
http://www.kitsuneinfo.furtopia.org/ima ... 961223.gif
Spare me clones of the Almighty, no openings for a new monotheistic diety at this time. Besides, shouldn't you be doing something more important, like world peace, starvation, or unification theory?

RIP _______:
Get a name. You really don't want 'unknown' on your tombstone, now do you?

Vampires:
Dracula is dead, multiple times over. Get over it.

Masamune:
No, you can't touch it. That's why it's behind glass. .... you want to... have... it?! *laughs hysterically* No, seriously, now what did you want?

...need I go on? I could, but the urge to rant is fading.
</soapbox>

[Kerry Skydancer]

I'll just say that there actually =is= a way that the Star Wars lightsabers will work as presented. It's not a beam, it's a magnetic bottle full of plasma. The interaction between the blades would work as shown, the fields would pass right through most materials letting the plasma burn through them as -it- goes by, and it would react badly to being forced through metal. The power consumption would still be hideous, yes, to the point that you -couldn't- more easily overload it and throw it. You'd take out a square mile and there's no way you could get away in time without a jet-pack.

As for the rest of it? Just -once- I'd like to see a movie where the Evil Overlord has actually taken the Evil Overlord's list to heart. Why in the name of Murphy and all his fallen engineers do they tell the hero their plans and then walk away before making sure the deathtrap works!??!?

[Astral]

Just -once- I'd like to see a movie where the Evil Overlord has actually taken the Evil Overlord's list to heart.

238 things I would do if I ever became an evil overlord. Just clasic. Thing is if they realy did go by those rules the good guy's would be realy realy scrued ^^

[Mwalimu]

How about the tough female warrior who inexplicably becomes a femme fatale at the critical moment so the man can save her (e.g. Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves)?

Recommended reading if you like this thread: The Tough Guide to Fantasyland by Diana Wynne Jones.

[RHJunior]

One cliche' I've seen many times is one the Hayes might be guilty of here.
I am familiar only with modern, decorative candles.
In movie after movie, I see someone walking, or even running, with a candelabra, and the candles do not go out!
I assume that in a society that employs candles for actual light the candles would be hardier, but still!

For one thing, they used tallow candles in the days of yore more often than beeswax. As I recall, they burned a bit hotter (the tallow itself could burn...) And yes, candles can be waved about quite a bit without going out.

Side note: torches also piss me off. Someone in a movie picks up a chunk of wood, holds a match to it, and poof, instant light.

Well, torches aren't just a stick of wood. The end is wrapped in rags and dipped in pitch.

[RHJunior]

... actually, that doesn't really work so well since 'the pill' has no equivalent in most fantasy settings and that can put some cramps in the adventuring lifestyle...

Actually, I read a report IRL about a missionary couple... they were in the field and the wife ran out of birth control pills. Now, given the country and the medical conditions in the region, along with a few thousand other considerations, a pregnancy would have been disastrous. But the local women heard about her problem and pointed her to a local plant, and told her that chewing said plant would prevent conception....
Now this isn't something I would recommend, for both ethical and medical reasons--- for all they knew the plant could have worked by inducing abortion, or could have done her grievous harm. But the missionary's wife, for lack of better options and sheer desperation, tried it. Apparently it worked.... no pregnancy. (as I recall, it also prevented or delayed her menstrual cycle, so it wasn't just blind luck.) And when they got back to "civilization" it had apparently done her no harm....

Herbal contraceptives aren't all that unfeasible.

[RHJunior]

That one drives me bonkers, too. The female character spends half the movie, book or cartoon kicking butt all over the place, and suddenly falls helpless when the villain seizes her by the upper arm.


Even worse---the reverse. The useless female who whimpers and cries and screams and faints and does nothing but get captured by various bad guys.... right up to the very end when she suddenly turns into She-Ra, princess of Badass.

Remember Arnold Schwartzenagger in "the Running Man"? The leading lady spent the entire movie screaming and fainting and generally being useless--- till right at the end when the revolutionaries find them. They give her a gun, and suddenly she transforms into SHE-COMMANDO, FEMALE SUBURBAN WARRIOR.

[Mad Mike]

Even worse---the reverse. The useless female who whimpers and cries and screams and faints and does nothing but get captured by various bad guys.... right up to the very end when she suddenly turns into She-Ra, princess of Badass.

Remember Arnold Schwartzenagger in "the Running Man"? The leading lady spent the entire movie screaming and fainting and generally being useless--- till right at the end when the revolutionaries find them. They give her a gun, and suddenly she transforms into SHE-COMMANDO, FEMALE SUBURBAN WARRIOR.

"For I hath seen the Light - No Longer will I be the Quivering Mass of Jell-o, Fearful of All about Me, for my Spine hath been Stiffened by the Steel Rod of Adversity that the Villian hath shoved up my Rectum."

[Anthony Lion]

Yeah, it is puzzling how whimpering sissies grabs a gun and suddenly not only becomes brave, but also an expert marksman...

I personally know how to fire the H&K G3 assault-rifle(Personal weapon when I was in the RNoAF), the H&K MP5, MG-3, the Walther P38, M-72(It was even my nickname during basic training, and I could ready, aim and fire it in 6seconds...), the quad .5" AA gun....

One of the things I learned was that while I could get a decent score with the G3(Even hitting targets at 300meters), I had problems hitting a full-figure, non-moving target at 25meters with the P38... (It was the first time I ever fired a pistol)
And that was when I stood still, with no distractions, like someone shooting back at me...
I could blame the pistol which was old and rather worn, but I later bought an air-gun and well... I'm still trying to sell it to someone else...

[Sharuuk]

Yeah, it is puzzling how whimpering sissies grabs a gun and suddenly not only becomes brave, but also an expert marksman...

I personally know how to fire the H&K G3 assault-rifle(Personal weapon when I was in the RNoAF), the H&K MP5, MG-3, the Walther P38, M-72(It was even my nickname during basic training, and I could ready, aim and fire it in 6seconds...), the quad .5" AA gun....

One of the things I learned was that while I could get a decent score with the G3(Even hitting targets at 300meters), I had problems hitting a full-figure, non-moving target at 25meters with the P38... (It was the first time I ever fired a pistol)
And that was when I stood still, with no distractions, like someone shooting back at me...
I could blame the pistol which was old and rather worn, but I later bought an air-gun and well... I'm still trying to sell it to someone else...

<cue: Homer Simpson voice>
"Hmmmmmm....H&K......"!

Dude, I like your choice in weaponry. My duty weapon is a P-7.