30-04-2006 Solicitor vs Gilder

[TMLutas]

but how will this affect our questor?

he's signed the papers.... he HAS TO DO THE DEED! (or die trying)


i mean, if this is about the leaders of freeman downs not noticing a technicality in some ancient paperwork... ???

besides, if they knew about it, then the only thing they would have done would be to make the test that quentin didn't get an impossible one...

...like, say... retrieving a bunch of odd artifacts lost a long time ago?

That would be at least funny on a poetic level - to be a questor you have to undertake the (suicidal) quest that makes having a questor near impossible (or suicidal...!)

Would you really toss a kid out like that? It would be heartless and cruel.

But I see at least one more way out for Quentyn. The Archivists could be persuaded to withdraw the quest. I'm guessing that sometimes this would happen and that payment would still be owed based on some sort of UCC like rules. If they could withdraw and not have to pay out their fee, or merely pay out a small amount, they could get the lands for a pittance and not have to wait for Quentyn to abandon the quest. At that point, it's just a question of figuring out what do the archivists want *more* than the quest.

[Bengaley]

but how will this affect our questor?

he's signed the papers.... he HAS TO DO THE DEED! (or die trying)


i mean, if this is about the leaders of freeman downs not noticing a technicality in some ancient paperwork... ???

besides, if they knew about it, then the only thing they would have done would be to make the test that quentin didn't get an impossible one...

...like, say... retrieving a bunch of odd artifacts lost a long time ago?

That would be at least funny on a poetic level - to be a questor you have to undertake the (suicidal) quest that makes having a questor near impossible (or suicidal...!)

Would you really toss a kid out like that? It would be heartless and cruel.

But I see at least one more way out for Quentyn. The Archivists could be persuaded to withdraw the quest. I'm guessing that sometimes this would happen and that payment would still be owed based on some sort of UCC like rules. If they could withdraw and not have to pay out their fee, or merely pay out a small amount, they could get the lands for a pittance and not have to wait for Quentyn to abandon the quest. At that point, it's just a question of figuring out what do the archivists want *more* than the quest.

I don't think its the Archivists. They're not the ones behind this... Personally? I think that the guy that Mulharny was talking to, at the end of the Royals storyline, is the one behind this.

Or his group, at least.

[Webkilla]

but how will this affect our questor?

he's signed the papers.... he HAS TO DO THE DEED! (or die trying)


i mean, if this is about the leaders of freeman downs not noticing a technicality in some ancient paperwork... ???

besides, if they knew about it, then the only thing they would have done would be to make the test that quentin didn't get an impossible one...

...like, say... retrieving a bunch of odd artifacts lost a long time ago?

That would be at least funny on a poetic level - to be a questor you have to undertake the (suicidal) quest that makes having a questor near impossible (or suicidal...!)

Would you really toss a kid out like that? It would be heartless and cruel.

But I see at least one more way out for Quentyn. The Archivists could be persuaded to withdraw the quest. I'm guessing that sometimes this would happen and that payment would still be owed based on some sort of UCC like rules. If they could withdraw and not have to pay out their fee, or merely pay out a small amount, they could get the lands for a pittance and not have to wait for Quentyn to abandon the quest. At that point, it's just a question of figuring out what do the archivists want *more* than the quest.

I don't think its the Archivists. They're not the ones behind this... Personally? I think that the guy that Mulharny was talking to, at the end of the Royals storyline, is the one behind this.

Or his group, at least.

or perhaps the guy working directly against that 'guy' - I mean, we know that there are two sides in this... the ones that want the fog thingy gone and trade opened, and the ones that just want to advance the fog to clear up more land

[Maxgoof]

but how will this affect our questor? he's signed the papers.... he HAS TO DO THE DEED! (or die trying) i mean, if this is about the leaders of freeman downs not noticing a technicality in some ancient paperwork... ???

The leaders of Freeman Downs didn't NEED to see the ancient paperwork. The paperwork that they bought the land from O'Ridgedale's daughter was perfectly legal. The paperwork the founded Freeman Downs was perfectly legal. They had no reason to check to make sure she had a legal right to the land and to sell it.

In fact, she did have that legal right...until another Questor was appointed. How was anyone supposed to see that.

No, no...this was discovered recently.

What Gilder is upset at is the lengths to which these political opponents would go to get the upper hand over the representatives of Freeman Downs.

And as much as he has problems with Quentyn, he knows that these opponents just forced a kid to take on a mission that will likely cost him his life...all for political advantage.

Gilder is a businessman, but he is not without a heart.

[Tom Mazanec]

Don't forget that there are more than two parties in this (though there are two main ones). There are also "Independents" like the imbeciles who want to go back to wandering. But I think this reflects the big debate between the Traders and the Expansionists.

[TMLutas]

but how will this affect our questor? he's signed the papers.... he HAS TO DO THE DEED! (or die trying) i mean, if this is about the leaders of freeman downs not noticing a technicality in some ancient paperwork... ???

The leaders of Freeman Downs didn't NEED to see the ancient paperwork. The paperwork that they bought the land from O'Ridgedale's daughter was perfectly legal. The paperwork the founded Freeman Downs was perfectly legal. They had no reason to check to make sure she had a legal right to the land and to sell it.

In fact, she did have that legal right...until another Questor was appointed. How was anyone supposed to see that.

No, no...this was discovered recently.

What Gilder is upset at is the lengths to which these political opponents would go to get the upper hand over the representatives of Freeman Downs.

And as much as he has problems with Quentyn, he knows that these opponents just forced a kid to take on a mission that will likely cost him his life...all for political advantage.

Gilder is a businessman, but he is not without a heart.

Way back in the day, I worked for (researcher) a county clerk campaign in NY. County clerks manage things like land deeds and they've been elected positions in NY ever since the british colonial ones played games with land records and soured the people on the idea of having this as an elected post.

Essentially, the way property sales go in the US, you pay some money to a title search specialist to certify and insure that the property you buy is actually free and clear with no legitimate claims on it. The title search firm carries insurance and if the title certification is proven invalid, people get their purchase price back. In a hard money regime, this should be pretty close to the price needed to buy the property again (no inflation).

[Acolyte]

In a hard money regime, this should be pretty close to the price needed to buy the property again (no inflation).

In a situation where the supply of metal is constant, yes. We have had hard-money inflation in the past, for example when the Comstock lode drastically increased the supply of silver.

And that's assuming the demand for the metal itself stays more or less constant. Contrary to many assumptions, there's nothing inherently valuable about gold except that people like the stuff. Silver is more useful, but mainly in an industrialized society. In a pre-industrial world, it's not much more useful than gold. A bit more useful because it's harder and more durable, but anything you can make out of silver you can also make out of some less rare material.

But land is a different animal anyway. If the population is increasing, it will become increasingly valuable over time regardless of how well the currency otherwise holds its value. Thus, in modern times in certain areas where the demand for land is very high, the value of it is increasing against the currency far more quickly than other goods.

[Mutant for Hire]

It could be that Freeman Downs is the swing vote amount the seven villages on the Expansionist versus Open Trade issue. That would explain why something like this was pulled off. Controlling that representative would be very tempting indeed, which would lead to a blatant grab like this.

Incidentally, I'm not sure that the people of Freeman Downs would have been evicted. Likely a "white knight" would come in and buy the property or give them a loan to buy the property back (while they held the deed). At that point the people of Freeman Downs pretty much have to vote the line they're told. Said white knight looks good and merciful while at the same time getting what they want.

Worse case scenario, the property is bought out by a single or more likely a consortium of folks who then lease it or loan money to folks to buy it from them and they get the representative they want anyway. Either way, they get the property on the cheap and an additional representative on their side, possibly a critical swing vote.

Gilder at this point is probably certain that one of the major two factions tried to do a hostile takeover to get their representative to vote their way. He's just not sure which it is. He wants to find out who is behind this, really behind this and deliver a few choice words.

Incidentally, I doubt he's happy to see Quentyn go. I think Gilder respected Quentyn's intentions and wish to do good, but he felt that Quentyn's good intentions were on the road paved to chaos and trouble. I do not think he believes that Quentyn has deserved what happened to him, and for that matter, I doubt he feels that this is Quentyn's fault. Admittedly, Quentyn gave them the opportunity but it blindsided everyone else, including the elders and including Gilder himself, though he foresaw it could lead to trouble. But I doubt even he expected something like this.

Gilder knows Quentyn takes his job seriously and I like to think he respects the sacrifice that Quentyn is making to the village and that the village in fact owes Quentyn a debt. There's also the fact that someone tried to do something ugly to the village as well and there's the matter of the outstanding smear campaign involved. Gilder may not like Quentyn but I don't think he's going to let someone else get away with smearing the village, trying to take it over, and forcing one of the members of the village to go into exile to save it.

[TMLutas]

In a hard money regime, this should be pretty close to the price needed to buy the property again (no inflation).

In a situation where the supply of metal is constant, yes. We have had hard-money inflation in the past, for example when the Comstock lode drastically increased the supply of silver.

And that's assuming the demand for the metal itself stays more or less constant. Contrary to many assumptions, there's nothing inherently valuable about gold except that people like the stuff. Silver is more useful, but mainly in an industrialized society. In a pre-industrial world, it's not much more useful than gold. A bit more useful because it's harder and more durable, but anything you can make out of silver you can also make out of some less rare material.

But land is a different animal anyway. If the population is increasing, it will become increasingly valuable over time regardless of how well the currency otherwise holds its value. Thus, in modern times in certain areas where the demand for land is very high, the value of it is increasing against the currency far more quickly than other goods.

We know that they're running out of metals from the exposition done over that chess table in Sanctuary City and that means that currency is currently in a deflationary mode. We don't know population growth rates so we're not sure whether the increase in money value is tracking the increase in land value, is higher, or is lower.

I would guess that if land was rising in value, the swamps would have been filled in (at least in part) instead of being the refuge of those who did not appreciate village life. I would expect that suburbanization would proceed before you really saw property values significantly rise due to crowding.

[Acolyte]

That's true, but in context I thought you were speaking more generally.

[Lwj2]

Ironically, this may be the event that brings Gilder and Quentyn together on the same side.. ...They might not agree with each other, but they both want to preserve Freeman Downs.

Exactly.

Be really interesting to see what happens if they decide to team up on an issue.

Just supposing Quentyn returns with the goods, or enough of them to satisfy requirements.

Gilder's already upset.

He could be upset enough to commission Quentyn to get to the bottom of the plot. Considering that one of the senior cops in the big city is more or less on Quentyn's side, things could get very interesting.

Bet it'd be like a banzai charge with heavy artillery loaded with cannister.

[TMLutas]

Ironically, this may be the event that brings Gilder and Quentyn together on the same side.. ...They might not agree with each other, but they both want to preserve Freeman Downs.

Exactly.

Be really interesting to see what happens if they decide to team up on an issue.

Just supposing Quentyn returns with the goods, or enough of them to satisfy requirements.

Gilder's already upset.

He could be upset enough to commission Quentyn to get to the bottom of the plot. Considering that one of the senior cops in the big city is more or less on Quentyn's side, things could get very interesting.

Bet it'd be like a banzai charge with heavy artillery loaded with cannister.

The big question mark would be how long can Quentyn take side quests before he defaults on the village saving one. That's something that requires real care.