Can Mary Sues make for a successful comic?

[Drowemos]

So we all like to complain about the Mary Sue. The self insertion character that can do no wrong and is blessed by the world in general. The are boring and run rough shot over a story tearing it to pieces. But is there a way to implement a Mary Sue that will lead for comic success? Is there a variety of Mary Sue actually add to your comic popularity?

I am talking about the Diatribe Sue.

No one likes to see a perfect character unless that character is not taking a part in a story but imparting a “moral” lesson. When a character start to eposes a view point that you share and are often too nervous to voice yourself then you want that character to be perfect. The more that character succeeds the better you feel about yourself and your views. You will become invested in the character and even defend the legitimacy of the character. In a sense the Diatribe Sue is not a Mary Sue for the writer alone but for a whole group of people who believe something.

In the story the opponents of the Diatribe Sue can be ridicules straw-men who are easily outwitted because only an idiot would disagree your viewpoints. Or the can quickly switch sides to support the Diatribe Sue proving how strong the argument is. Either way the Diatribe Sue is encourage to beat upon and humiliate any who oppose them because the character is no longer a character but the figure head for an idea.

Basically when you ramp up you Mary Sue from Jesus to Rush Limbaugh in that they are not only perfect but a colossal ass to anyone who dares disagree. When the character tells the reader “everything you believe is right and good and those who disagree with you should die in the most horrible way imaginable” then it’s Sueness becomes universal.

I can think of so many comics that are wildly successful off of this idea. Sure form a technical standpoint it is still horrible writing and probably morally reprehensible to have a Diatribe Sue in your comic. But it works. It creates a large extremely loyal audience for your comic. And doesn’t that mean something.

[Yeahduff]

Rules are meant to be broken. People only hate Mary Sues because they mostly see poorly executed ones. There's no reason she can't work in the right hands.

[Drowemos]

Sort of the point. Everybody hates Westley Crusher when he saves the enterprise. But if Westley Crusher when on a angry tear about how Goths are lame and then proceeded to kick a Goth in the crotch repeatedly he probably would be the most loved character ever.

[KWill]

I'm a bit perplexed. As far as I know, a Mary Sue is poorly executed self-insertion or overpowering/exaggerating of characters. Doing a Mary Sue right would mean it wasn't a Mary Sue, in that case.

[Warofwinds]

I'm a bit perplexed. As far as I know, a Mary Sue is poorly executed self-insertion or overpowering/exaggerating of characters. Doing a Mary Sue right would mean it wasn't a Mary Sue, in that case.

What he said.

[Rkolter]

I agree with YeahDuff.

A well done Mary Sue is still a Mary Sue. It's just a GOOD one.

Compare it to 8-bit Theater. 8-bit Theater is a sprite comic. Just a good one.

[Jim North]

"Mary Sue" and "sprite comic" are different, however, in that while people generally do look down on sprite comics and a large number of them are complete ass, "horribly made" isn't automatically part of their definition. "Mary Sue", on the other hand, is by definition a negative quality.

You can use "sprite comic" as a pejorative, but "Mary Sue" is a pejorative by its very nature.

[Yeahduff]

Huh, I just thought it was an author's favorite, based off of wish-fulfillment or "dream girl" fantasy.

Whatever, I never liked the term anyway.

[CaptainClaude]

Overblown Self Insertion is fun. I've gone the whole hog, making my self insert character a jesus analogue with crazy bouncing superpowers.

Makes it really hard to answer when people ask me what my comic's about in real life cos it sounds ridiculous, but people seem to enjoy the story well enough.

[Redtech]

Q from Star Trek comes to mind. He's a literal self insertion as a character, and a very amusing one at that.

[Joel Fagin]

"Rules are so you think before you break them." - Terry Pratchett

Or, breaking rules can work if you know what you're doing - but be careful!

- Joel Fagin

[Jekkal]

Why does Rayne Summers from "Least I Could Do" come to mind... especially when you brought up the Goths.

Actually, that's why I stopped reading (or at least removed them from my dailies). A Sue is a Sue, after all.

[Drowemos]

But Rayne Summers has been a Sue for like forever. I must admit that Least I Could Do was the impetus behind this post. Here is a comic where the Sueness transcends a single author’s power fantasy and becomes the power fantasy for a collective. The fact that Rayne Summers is a Sue is part of the success of the comic not a determent.

Granted making fun of Emos is really picking the low hanging fruit of the power trip tree. No doubt we will soon see a video about how people who pick their nose are bad. And you know what? The readers of LICD will applaud Sohmer for giving those nose pickers what for.

[CaptainClaude]

the nose pickers had it coming.

[Jekkal]

But Rayne Summers has been a Sue for like forever. I must admit that Least I Could Do was the impetus behind this post. Here is a comic where the Sueness transcends a single author’s power fantasy and becomes the power fantasy for a collective. The fact that Rayne Summers is a Sue is part of the success of the comic not a determent.

Granted making fun of Emos is really picking the low hanging fruit of the power trip tree. No doubt we will soon see a video about how people who pick their nose are bad. And you know what? The readers of LICD will applaud Sohmer for giving those nose pickers what for.

This, to me, is part of the problem. Of COURSE it's easy to fall in love with a character when they take the stance you LIKE.

Granted, if a comic's viewpoint is drastically polarized against yours, that doesn't help either, but all it seems to come down to there is "X is a Sue, but X agrees with me, so who cares?" A good character should be able to reach out to many types of folks, not just people who believe in what X believes in.

[Turnsky]

Overblown Self Insertion is fun. I've gone the whole hog, making my self insert character a jesus analogue with crazy bouncing superpowers.

he'll be the god of pinball soon enough!

but people seem to enjoy the story well enough.

i think this hits the nail on the head,as long as people enjoy the comic, there's no real problem with the ol' Mary Sue. If it's done well, or differently, some are willing to look past it..

although, some Mary Sues are indication that the author is soft on their characters, and they need to torment them from time to time, at least from my perspective.

[Dreamaniaccomic]

A Mary Sue is by defenition, bad writing. It isn't a perfect character, it's a character based off the creator in order to live out crazy fantasies. I've tried creating a perfect character, but they sort of develop their own flaws and become new characeters that could actually work. I do write Mary Sue stuff, but I never share it. My ultimate ninja-dreamaniac! MINE!

[Turnsky]

A Mary Sue is by defenition, bad writing. It isn't a perfect character, it's a character based off the creator in order to live out crazy fantasies. I've tried creating a perfect character, but they sort of develop their own flaws and become new characeters that could actually work. I do write Mary Sue stuff, but I never share it. My ultimate ninja-dreamaniac! MINE!

aaactually.. a Mary Sue by definition -is- a "Perfect" character, that is to say, an idealised version of whomever the author wants, well written characters are meant to be imperfect, right down to any psychological problems that they might have.

[Rkolter]

A Mary Sue is by defenition, bad writing. It isn't a perfect character, it's a character based off the creator in order to live out crazy fantasies. I've tried creating a perfect character, but they sort of develop their own flaws and become new characeters that could actually work. I do write Mary Sue stuff, but I never share it. My ultimate ninja-dreamaniac! MINE!

aaactually.. a Mary Sue by definition -is- a "Perfect" character, that is to say, an idealised version of whomever the author wants, well written characters are meant to be imperfect, right down to any psychological problems that they might have.

This seems to be conflicting. If a Mary Sue is a perfect character, and well written characters are meant to be imperfect, are you saying that you cannot by definition write a Mary Sue well?

I give you James Bond. Problem drinker and womanizer at the least, and yet the absolute, spot on perfect spy who perfectly manages to get himself out of any situation, including those brought on by his problem drinking and womanizing. He's a Mary Sue, yet imperfect. And, with a couple notable exceptions, James Bond is very well written.

[Jim North]

If you think he's well written, then he's not a Mary Sue, because the term Mary Sue inherently means that you think the character is not well written, as I've already said.

One should keep in mind that a character with a fantastically improbable backstory, vaguely defined powers, and excessive amounts of beauty is just an unrealistic (and, most likely, unsympathetic) character. It isn't until the plot starts contorting to elevate this character to unnatural heights that she becomes a Mary Sue.

-Mary Sue on TV Tropes Wiki

One should remember that James Bond isn't a perfect spy, anyway. Heck, in Die Another Day, he ended up stuck in a prison for over a year getting tortured.