Webcomic sins?

Webkilla · Post by **Webkilla** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:11 am

What is the worst thing that, in your opinion, a webcartoonist can do to his/hers comic?

this was inspired by this here page of Bad Guy High:
http://www.drunkduck.com/Bad_Guy_High/index.php?p=50358

examples:

- retcons? (where something plot-critical is shown one way on one page, but done completely diffferent the next - retroactive continuity)

- flatlines (where updates just stop, permanently, with no explanation what so ever given)

- deletions (where the webcartoonist(s) just deletes the lot for some reason)

- mixed sales plot (where you have to buy a printed comic in order to get the full webcomic's plot to make sense)

- irregular updates (the bane of all update deadlines)

- other? (specify)

IMO its a mix of all of the above... take Under The Lemon Tree (now Goblin Hollow) - it was retconed into a whole new theme, the old archive and old storylines deleted from publicly accessible archives and now only sold in dead-tree format... plus GH still updates incredibly irratically

another example is Tea Club, who's maker went off and posted one chapter online, the the next in dead-tree format only, then the third online, leaving readers baffled and confused

"Scrued" was another comic that was expertly drawn, had a lot of really nice background info and all... and then it just stopped updating, no reason given...

Counter Culture, a lovely bloody action comedy comic with some really nice content - one day the ppl doing said "do not want make no more" and deleted the site....

The Ram: once a great keenspace comic (we're talking olden days here) turned paycomic - artist stopped doing the comic... deleted the lot - you cant even find it on the paysite's archive any more

(ok, I now this looks like bashing/flaming, but these comics are IMO just perfect textbook examples of what NOT to do)

thoughts?

Dr Neo Lao · Post by **Dr Neo Lao** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:33 am

I suppose that it depends on how many variables you want to take into account.

I'm sure that of all the comics that "just stop" at least some of them were for a drastic reason such as the author dying or going blind. The rest were probably the author becoming too busy (new job, left college, had kids, w/eva) and some were the author simply lost interest or found a better hobby.

==========================

Webcomic sins? I think the biggest one is having an open-ended story. The vast majority of story-driven webcomics are either made up as the author goes along or only a few weeks / months in advance.

If you're going to do a story-based comic, authors ought to sit down and at least come up with a braod outline of where they want the story to go and how to end it.

Zebra Girl is great, but the author has slowly run out of enthusiasm and has been a bit hit-and-miss with the updates. There are some (very few actually) webcomics where the author decided to stop doing it but posted a "what happened at the end" page with the end of the story for the readers.

Jack and Schlock Mercenary are good in the sense that the story is clearly broken up into chapters and the stories tend to be self-contained, even though the characters go on to do other things.

Other "sins" of webcomikers:

Under-enthusiastic: not putting in much effort, just using ultra-basic templates for html files
Over-enthusiastic: trying to explain every tiny detail, spending weeks on each page (I'm looking at you GunBaby!), putting the "author" intothe comic to explain irrelevent stuff, etc.
Putting huge amounts of redundant data on every page - pet peeve of mine. Some stuff (like blogs, vote buttons, etc) go on the index page only, not every freakin' page!
Constantly begging for donations: Under the Lemon Tree drove me mad with this one. If you want money, then do it to a professional level (like Howard Taylor) or provide incentives (like Amber Williams).
Posting useless filler in place of regular updates (another one that RH Junior bugged me with - correction: that I found annoying. I'm pretty sure he wasn't doing it just to be mean to me).
Taking themselves too seriously. It's a webcomic and you should be doing it as a hobby or as a creative outlet. You're not going to get fired if you miss an update or if you have better things to do.

I though of some more, but I figured that there's only so much of my whining that people will read before simply skipping over it without reading any of it.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:45 am

My self-indulgence is telling me to say "Everything I've been doing so far", but I've just about fought it off.

I suppose the most irritating thing I've found is making the reader pay for updates. Although, to David Willis' credit, he does update a free sorta-spin-off comic regularly, and does weekly free updates 'It's Walky' anyway. And he doesn't charge that much overall for the comics. Plus he waited until the main plot of the comic had more or less finished before doing pay-comics. So overall it's not that bad.

I do have a broad outline of how my comic's going to develop, and I have some major plot points far in the future mapped out in my head. And in some places I have a better idea of how to set out the ending comics than I do for next week's. The main problm for me is how to get there, or whether I will get there. : |

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:48 am

Too much ego. One way or another, most of it comes back to that.

Egos fine, mind. It's just the "too much" bit.

- Joel Fagin

Rhenny · Post by **Rhenny** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:21 am

This isn’t a sin really, more of an observation…
It seems to me that playing an MMO such as World of Warcraft is almost a death blow to a webcomic. Several places that I used to update quite a bit seem to just languish once the MMO’s start going. My examples are “Polymer City Chronicles” (Who also changed the theme of his strip from Video game/ amazonic humor to long form serious.) “Supermegatopia”. Both rolled out fairly often, then the creators started playing WOW or City of heroes according to their forums and slowly the updates seem to throttle off.

It could be a coincidence, but it just seems that MMO and comic making are sort of at odds for time and production levels…

Black Sparrow · Post by **Black Sparrow** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:38 am

*Reliance on genre cliches, particularly in the case of manga-style comics.

*Excessive filler. This has already mentioned, but I'd like to add those little "sorry, no page today. I had homework, and my dog got sick, and my car got stolen..." fillers; the ones that are just excuses for missed updates. Once or twice, these are understandable... but after that, they just get annoying.

*Author insertion. It just shouldn't be done. Ever.

Rhenny · Post by **Rhenny** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:44 am

Black Sparrow wrote: *Excessive filler. This has already mentioned, but I'd like to add those little "sorry, no page today. I had homework, and my dog got sick, and my car got stolen..." fillers; the ones that are just excuses for missed updates. Once or twice, these are understandable... but after that, they just get annoying.

***Agreed, if you have sufficent backlog this shouldn't happen much. I think it became in vogue with "Dead Piro days" over at Megatokyo?? I'm not positive but it's a popular strip as all get out and that's the first place I heard of it being used much. (IE shirtless guy dom, stick fogures and whatnot) I may be incorrect as I don't read it myself but thats what I recall from a friends gushing about the awesomeness.

Webkilla · Post by **Webkilla** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:54 am

Black Sparrow wrote:
*Author insertion. It just shouldn't be done. Ever.

oh ya - thats a tricky one

my webcomic will actually eventually feature a 'me' persona at some point, but in the sense that it'll be slightly autobiagraphical

but puting a character who 'knows' he's in a comic into a comic... thats just not right - its not breaking the fourth wall, its tearing it down and desecrating to the rubble (plus it brings that whole 'omnipotent character' thing into play as well)

and demanding payment for updates: thats really not cool... the whole idea, IMO, of webcomics are that they are free and updated for free - if you want money, sell a RL comic book

Rhenny · Post by **Rhenny** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:58 am

Speaking of fourth walls...
I really hated that in Sensational She-Hulk, it just felt way to self gratifying and it did cheapen the whole vehicle i think.

Komiyan · Post by **Komiyan** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:05 am

No filler in any archive EVER. It ruins the flow of the story. All those guest strips, fan arts, random pinups? Get rid of them! Put them on a new page elsewhere.

Eve Z. · Post by **Eve Z.** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:16 am

Yeah, fillers suck. I mean hey, I've seen alot of amateurish manga webcomics with a sounds-interesting plot. Clicked it, read a few page and then boom! a filler, and then another filler, and another and another.... till the end.

And they're baddly-drawn too...

And a filler is a very good exemple of cliche.

yikes!

Vorticus · Post by **Vorticus** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:21 am

Black Sparrow wrote:
*Author insertion. It just shouldn't be done. Ever.

I fail so badly at that one.

Most everything I consider bad has been said already.

Random gratuitous *anything* whether it be violence or sex or fruit falling from the sky that happens simply because the author felt like drawing that that day instead of keeping with the story. Generally not a problem in gag comics but story comics fail big time if this happens.

K-Dawg · Post by **K-Dawg** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:33 am

Also don't forget afros. I hate when authors put in afros for no damn reason!

Sorcery101 · Post by **Sorcery101** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:42 am

Dr Neo Lao wrote:
[*]Taking themselves too seriously. It's a webcomic and you should be doing it as a hobby or as a creative outlet. You're not going to get fired if you miss an update or if you have better things to do.[/list]I though of some more, but I figured that there's only so much of my whining that people will read before simply skipping over it without reading any of it.

I think actually think the depending on the creators goals taking him or herself seriously is a good thing. While if it's just a hobby or creative outlet, then yeah doesn't have to be taken too seriously. But for example I'm planning to go in comics as a career. And Sorcery 101 I show to publishers when I want criticism on my work because it shows how I go about layout and pacing for pages and THAT I CAN MEET A DEADLINE. Also, it to build a fan base for my characters so when I pitch my other comic with the same cast it will be more likely to get picked up.

So after a webcomic reaches a certain point, I actually think the opposite is a webcomic sin because there are a good amount of people who have a decent fanbase, make at least a little bit of money off their comic, but don't take their comic seriously enough. SO they miss updates or post lots of filler or go bitch and whine when someone insults their stuff.

Prettysenshi · Post by **Prettysenshi** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:51 am

"Hey fans, I'm gonna redraw Chapter 1!! It's gonna take forever, and my style hasn't changed at all, but I want to do it for YOU!"

Yeah, I hate that. It's so irritating to be a fan of someone's work, and they insist on redrawing every page. I know some people who have redrew their archive like.....4 times now. *coughvampirephantasmcough*

Another thing that irritates me is when a creator has a nice new comic, but because of one or two negative reviews, they drop the comic, and start working on a new one. This pattern repeats and they never go past Chapter 1.

Eve Z. · Post by **Eve Z.** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:59 am

Well, I've made a sin: I've started a second webcomic, even through I don't have enough time for one. And both plots go slow.

And I started Ted pax, just because I felt like it.
But I'll never drop any of them!

Sorcery101 · Post by **Sorcery101** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:08 am

prettysenshi wrote:"Hey fans, I'm gonna redraw Chapter 1!! It's gonna take forever, and my style hasn't changed at all, but I want to do it for YOU!"

Yeah, I hate that. It's so irritating to be a fan of someone's work, and they insist on redrawing every page. I know some people who have redrew their archive like.....4 times now. *coughvampirephantasmcough*

Another thing that irritates me is when a creator has a nice new comic, but because of one or two negative reviews, they drop the comic, and start working on a new one. This pattern repeats and they never go past Chapter 1.

When I read the first sentence Vampire Phantasm was the first comic that popped into my head.

and personally I think her only improvement is how well she uses photoshop.

Redtech · Post by **Redtech** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:27 am

I know I'm guilty of the updates and "consistancy" points. Mainly because my style is evolving pretty damned fast. I also should be more observant to minor details.

I think that sometimes an off-topic filler is alright depending on the theme of the comic. I don't see (much) how a strip based on someone at dorm having a HAPPY BIRTHDAY pic would ruin it, but a detective noir story set in East "evilsville" having a "I LOVE YOU MOM!" filler would...not rule.

Wp · Post by Wp » Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:35 am

sorcery101 wrote:
prettysenshi wrote:"Hey fans, I'm gonna redraw Chapter 1!! It's gonna take forever, and my style hasn't changed at all, but I want to do it for YOU!"

Yeah, I hate that. It's so irritating to be a fan of someone's work, and they insist on redrawing every page. I know some people who have redrew their archive like.....4 times now. *coughvampirephantasmcough*

Another thing that irritates me is when a creator has a nice new comic, but because of one or two negative reviews, they drop the comic, and start working on a new one. This pattern repeats and they never go past Chapter 1.
When I read the first sentence Vampire Phantasm was the first comic that popped into my head. and personally I think her only improvement is how well she uses photoshop.

I'm going to agree with both of you. Probably the thing I hate the most.

Kilre · Post by **Kilre** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:42 pm

Rhenny wrote: It could be a coincidence, but it just seems that MMO and comic making are sort of at odds for time and production levels…

It could also vary from person to person. I play WoW and keep my comic updated twice a week, as I have tried to do from the beginning.

What do I think is a webcomic sin? When the artist/author goes out of the plot/story and preaches something that is completely unrelated to the rest of the comic.