Depressed, skip this thread.

[RemusShepherd]

Occasionally I get depressed, and for me depression is equivalent to anger, and so I go around hitting myself and saying 'fuck' a lot. This is one of those times. Y'all can just skip this thread -- I'm just blowing off steam.

Bought a $50 book on perspective yesterday.

Worst artistic mistake, I think, that I've ever made. Oh, I can follow it. Got one or two comic panels in near-perfect perspective. There's just two problems: It's painful and slow as hell, and it looks like crap.

It's painful because the technique taught for doing perspective on paper do not translate to the computer. 'Mark a vanishing point outside the field of view' -- in other words, outside my fucking image. On paper you can use a point on your desk, I imagine, and use a ruler to draw a straight line to it. On the computer that forces you to create a template image twice or more as big as the image you want to create. And now, every single fucking line I draw I have to *measure* first. I'm using the calculator more than my drawing tablet. And for all that, the results look like sterile architectural plans, because I'm spending all my time drawing surfaces and no time drawing clutter, textures, and objects to give the picture a soul.

I just spent two hours putting together a template so that I could draw a fucking table.

(deep inhale)

What I want to do is say 'fuck it' and just draw. I'm getting better slowly, and eventually I'll draw well enough that people will actually want to look at it. But without feedback or any audience to speak of, there's an urge to IMPROVE -- NOW.

Because if nobody's reading the comic -- or if they *are* reading it and it's complete shit -- then I'm wasting a lot of fucking time, here.

(sigh)

Again, not looking for feedback or tips, just blowing off steam.

[Alaina]

Who says you have to do the whole "vanishing point" technique to make drawings have perspective? After a while you just develope a sixth sense for perspective and will know when angles are wrong. It's all about the tricks of the trade.

One way to get your perspective practice in is to look at drawings other people have made. Tell a friend who doesn't understand perspective to draw a box, and then figure out why it doesn't look right. Over time, you'll easily catch mistakes in your own work.

It's hard to explain online and without visual guides

[The Neko]

You could also practice it on paper, so you know how to work with it on the computer. Once you get the basics down, you can transfer it to almost any medium.

[Faub]

A nice aspect of computer art is that you can have the compute do the perspective transforms for you. If you want a table, draw the square for the table top then do a perspective transform on the square to get its position in space. The legs require a single leg, copied four times and scaled to perspective you chose. Perspective is a tool, just like a computer. It was meant for manual, 2D work where a computer can manipulate objects with math and render a 3D space in 2D for you.

[Rosenborg]

Fuck perspective.

Fuck good drawing.

Trondheim rules. And he's depressed too. If he weren't he wouldn't be funny.

A guy goes to a psychiatrist because of his depression. The psychiatrist tells him 'There's this circus in town with this really funny clown. You should see his show. That will cheer you up!'. Then the guy says 'I am that clown.'

[McDuffies]

I don't think you wasted your money, Remus. I mean, apart from that learning every little bit helps and at the end it all fits in a puzzle... Perhaps it took you two hours for a table because it's your first time or because you were just too strict about rules (you shouldn't forget perspective, but you can loosen up about it). I'm sure you can adjust the system for using it on comp so that things go more smooth.

And yes, Trondheim does rule. But he uses perspective every now and then too. Remember his famous panoramic shots that look like made with wide-screen camera, but they are just a two-point perspective.

[Squis]

Actually, Trondheim draws very well. His style just looks like bad drawing. Everytime I look at his pictures, I think "I can draw like that!" - then it turns out I can't.

Of course, the first time you try out a new technique it

a) takes a lot longer than it should
b) looks like crap.

I spent whole days being depressed just because of some bad drawing I did in the morning while trying out something new. I think all tricks (perspective lines, stick figure scetches,...) are reduced to a minimum of time consumption, once the artist feels comfortable with it. Here's my tip: Keep drawing for 2 more years. You will probably still be depressed about your work then, but it will look much better.

Blowing off steam now and then does help.

[RemusShepherd]

Who says you have to do the whole "vanishing point" technique to make drawings have perspective? After a while you just develope a sixth sense for perspective and will know when angles are wrong. It's all about the tricks of the trade.

Yes, but it's always best to learn 'the correct way' before using shortcuts. I've learned a lot in life by doing everything the hard way.

Actually, Trondheim draws very well. His style just looks like bad drawing. Everytime I look at his pictures, I think "I can draw like that!" - then it turns out I can't.

Trondheim is a cartoon artist, at least at the link provided. Anatomy, perspective -- these things are malleable under cartoon rules. I'm a realistic artist. The only reason my comic looks cartoony is because I'm forcing myself to a tight update schedule. Look at my fan art for MindMistress if you want to see what I'm capable of. I can't draw a comic like that if I want to update faster than once a month. I'm intentionally drawing beneath my capability, and it's beginning to grate on me.

All right, this bitch session is over. Whining aside, the only options are to continue or quit, and quitting is not an option, so this has been a waste of good electrons.

[TheSuburbanLetdown]

All right, this bitch session is over. Whining aside, the only options are to continue or quit, and quitting is not an option, so this has been a waste of good electrons.

Sounds good to me. The more you do something, the better you will get at it. You will eventully get faster as well.

[Alaina]

Who says you have to do the whole "vanishing point" technique to make drawings have perspective? After a while you just develope a sixth sense for perspective and will know when angles are wrong. It's all about the tricks of the trade.

Yes, but it's always best to learn 'the correct way' before using shortcuts. I've learned a lot in life by doing everything the hard way.

I guess I meant learn the correct way on paper first then fudge it on the computer.

[McDuffies]

Trondheim is a cartoon artist, at least at the link provided. Anatomy, perspective -- these things are malleable under cartoon rules. I'm a realistic artist. The only reason my comic looks cartoony is because I'm forcing myself to a tight update schedule.

No, he's a comic artist, he just deliberately draws childish (you could even say that it's a trendy style in France, I noticed that Joann Sfar and some others draw similar). But Trondheim has a firm grasp of perspective, spacial composinion, graphic narration, etc... Would you believe that fight scenes in his comics look very dynamic.

[Carlin]

For my comic I draw in a style that is much more simplified and faster to draw. (when I get back to my comic that is...) I can do better than this, so I do so whenever I can. If I'm drawing for practice or for one shot thrills I do what I'm capable of. I also try to draw stuff that is impossibly over my head. The pic comes out looking like absolute crap every time but I learn from it. So I do it again. Looks like crap but better crap. And so on... It's a hell of a timewaster but it has helped me in the past. Beat that brick wall with your head until that brick wall crumbles at your feet.

Then get some bloody asprin...

[Steverules]

It's always frustrating when you are learning something new but you will get faster and grow so much from it. I just started learning photoshop last month and when I started it was so frustrating trying to take in all the steps - layers, text bubbles, etc. After a month and of doing it I realized two things, I have a hell of a lot more to learn and what I have learned has helped me tremendously. Every week I stumble across something new, get a little bit faster with the stuff I learned and am glad I didn't walk away when things got me so mad I wanted to pull my hair out.
So hang in there, learn as much as you can and come back to this thread in two months where you can laugh at your post.

[Mr Ekshin]

*reads first post - fuck the rest*

I feel for you, sympathise, and offer words or support.

Learn perspective and proportion.

Fuck texture and shading for now.

It's something that matters only if you wish to show your comic like you see a movie in your head.

Those lines for perspective and shit? They work, but they're "cheats" and "tricks".

Get a digital camera. I just got one. Shoot stuff. Print it, and lay it out next to your paper. Draw from that.

The olde masters would even paint while having a thin thread grid between themselves and the work - to help them see the "flat" version of the real picture they were looking at.

Learn perspective and proportion. It will let you draw anything and anyone, anywhere, while doing anything.

Even if it's simple.

"Or something like that."

Peas.

[Chibiartstudios]

Yes, perspective is indeed a snail-like pain in the ass. But it looks good. The only problem I have with it is that it's hard to make things look organic and real when using it. Oh well. I suppose that in the end practice is the only real way to improve... Damnit...

[Jeffy]

AAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!