Copy and past. usefull time saver or lazy and off putting?

JeremyW · Post by **JeremyW** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:13 am

Let's hear what you think.

Yeahduff · Post by **Yeahduff** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:17 am

Your writing better be on point, because the visuals are gonna get real boring real fast.

Caduceus · Post by **Caduceus** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:19 am

Depends on what you copy and paste. In general I say it's a big no-no.

JexKerome · Post by **JexKerome** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:20 am

You should have made a poll.

I dislike cut and paste; to me it is a sure sign of laziness. The artist is unwilling to present the same scene in different angles, which tends to keep the reader's attention. It also detracts from realism because a person seldom keeps perfectly still unless in very deep tought, and when talking all of us use both gestures and mannerisms.

So no cut and paste for me, thank you. If a comic uses it, I skip it.

Psiogen · Post by **Psiogen** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:22 am

BOOOOORRRRRRRIIINNNNG.

JeremyW · Post by **JeremyW** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:24 am

I don't do it myself but I read some comics that do. However it's forgivable because post past they make a few changes eg, new facial expression, perhaps a different backround colour, that sort of thing.

Yeahduff · Post by **Yeahduff** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:27 am

I'd say it's only forgivable if the writing's so good you don't pay much attention to the art. Otherwise your forgoing about half of your ability to communicate your characters. Body language and nuance and mannerism are all thrown out the window. And you'll never get better at drawing.

Cope · Post by **Cope** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:32 am

I can live with it as long as it's implemented in a non-intrusive manner. In other words, cut and paste should remain "out of sight, out of mind."

Smight · Post by **Smight** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:51 am

ordinarily I say avoid it al all costs, but if you have excellent writing you can get away with almost anything. I mean look at this guy http://www.qwantz.com/ You'd think the exact same visual would get stale... but it doesn't

Psiogen · Post by **Psiogen** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:28 am

Yeah, something like Dinosaur Comics works cause it's written by a comedy genius.

But think how often the humor in a comic like Calvin & Hobbes is enhanced by Watterson's drawings. If he was a crappy artist who xeroxed his characters, his comics wouldn't just be uglier, they'd often be much less funny.

Dutch! · Post by **Dutch!** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:35 am

I don't mind it in two cases usually, but not excessively.

One, the scene has no reason to have changed because nothing has physically altered between panels, such as people still talking in the same place, although ideally there would be a different panel between them.

Two, in regards to a comedic comic, the same panel is reused but on a different comic. I've done it myself where I've used the same opening, middle or even end panel in different strips, again mainly because the action or dialogue is still taking place in the same location.

If the same picture's used all the way through, that's going a little overboard.

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:41 am

It can be done. The more iconic the style, the more natural cut-and-paste seems to be. Your brain fills in so many gaps in the artwork, well, what's one more?

And it can be done for deliberate comedic effect. Say, a stunned person.

And Maritza Campos also gets away with it regularly - to the extent that you really have to be looking to see it - by changing expressions slightly and also the size of the image. Zooming a camera in or out makes it look like a different panel. Her artistic style is also rather iconic, which must help.

Generally, it's a bad idea though. You get better or faster by drawing, not copying and pasting. You need to push yourself as an artist and that just doesn't happen with C&P.

Finally, it's fiddly and can actually sometimes take longer than drawing a new panel.

- Joel Fagin

MixedMyth · Post by **MixedMyth** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:59 am

It can be ok if used very sparingly. For example, if there's a dramatic pause or a moment of realization, and the character is frozen in place. Even then, though, I think that they really ought to be two different images, even if the differences are slight. Nothing calls attention to laziness like cut and paste.

Most of the time, though, I really hate it. All those comics that have the same panel the whole way through....*shudder*

JeremyW · Post by **JeremyW** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:20 am

MixedMyth wrote:All those comics that have the same panel the whole way through....*shudder*

I know what you mean.

Sam_Charette · Post by **Sam_Charette** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:48 am

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I don't mind cut and paste depending on the type of comic.

If it's a serious story based comic, or one that is supposed to mimic the drama of film, for instance, then cut and paste is horrible.

If, however, it's a gag strip, then within reason there's nothing wrong with it. Sometimes the best gag requires that a scene remain the same, and in such a case it's probably a good idea to copy and paste it. I find it annoying, personally, when the same scene looks a little more wobbly here or there when they could more easily have copied it.

Differences in an image draw the reader's attention there. Similarities obfuscate themselves, and divert the reader's attention elsewhere. You just have to decide what you want the reader to be paying attention to.

They're right, though, that C/P won't help you get better at drawing. If you're goal is to get better through your web comic, then at least try drawing every panel, and C/P over what doesn't work. If it's not, and it doesn't have to be, then do what you feel most comfortable with.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:30 am

It can kill the comic. I remember reading "Pentasmal", at that moment he was considered something of a comical wunderkind, but still I couldn't draw more than several comics at a time, because it was tiring my eyes, looking at same pictures again and again.
Comic is art+writing and whenever you neglect one of those, the result is missing something. There is no copy&paste comic that wouldn't be better if everything was hand-drawn.

Now about exceptions: Consider what I said above a rule. Rules are to be broken, but only if you know them good enough. In other words, one has to be a very good artist to manage and make copy&paste comic visually good.
Moving arms or changing lips expressions doesn't do much. You'd have to change cuts positions of characters, zoom them in or out. Beginning of EOI is a honorable example of copy&paste comic that was visually good, thanks to his interventions on template art. I am yet to see someone who's done this that good.

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:33 am

mcDuffies wrote:Rules are to be broken, but only if you know them good enough.

"Rules are there so you think before you break them." - Lu Tze

Heh. I always liked the Calvin and Hobbes cut-n-paste strip.

- Joel Fagin

JeremyW · Post by **JeremyW** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:21 am

I think that backgrounds are alot more acceptable than forgrounds regarding C/P. What do you peeps think?

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:24 am

I don't have a problem with copy and paste, so long as it's done infrequently, and only when it would make sense to do so.

For example, I always copy and paste CPU, the character from my comic that's just a computer, because it never moves and never changes position. I never copy and paste ABOL, because he's a floating cloud of light and is always in the process of changing.

I've seen comics that have several dozen poses for their characters and copy and paste them as needed, making minor tweaks. I guess I dno't have a problem with that. But a hand drawn comic like Faub's for example, I could never accept copy and paste in.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:26 am

If the foreground is dynamic enough...
On the other hand, artists often think that they need background in every single panel, which is not true. In fact, it can overcrowd a page. Which that in mind, copy&pasting backgrounds is often unnececary.