Keenspace Sampler Minicomic

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Faub
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Keenspace Sampler Minicomic

Post by Faub »

A compiled list of submission requirements and so on from this thread.

Everybody knows that Keenspot comics have a lot of advertising force behind them because Keenspot Entertainment does all the work for them. They get promoted at cons and they have a lot of good press. Keenspace on the other hand does not. What we have is a lot of people doing the same things (drawing, writing, sometimes coloring and most of the time desperately wanting attention). This got me thinking.

Would anyone like to contribute to an advertising comic for Keenspacers?

The comic would NOT be printed or distributed. It would be posted on a Keenspace site as a high-resolution PDF download that could be printed and distributed at will by any Keenspacer. If possible, it would require a siteadmin style login to start the download so we knew the person downloading was a spacer.

Keenspacers can be found around the world. This would mean free, international distribution for the comic and international advertising, not to mention con presence for anyone with a page in the book. This wouldn't have to be a one-shot deal either. It could be put out monthly (or seasonally or yearly) with new comics appearing in each issue. We could even hold competitions for the cover art.
  • Problems:
  • The PDF would be somewhere around 250-600 megs so it would only be available to spacers with a high-speed internet connection. Since most spacers attend a university of some kind, this might be less of a problem than it seems.
  • There would be no guarentees of quality. One spacer could print the comic on a color laserjet. The next might print it on an ink jet then photocopy it.
  • We would need some kind of contract to state that the each page is copyright the particular artist and the artist has agreed to allow the page to be copied for purposes of this comic.
  • The spacer doing the printing would be allowed to sell the comic to recover the printing costs. (Meaning the comic would be a commercial work, even though there is no single entity publishing it.) A Creative Commons license would be fitting.
  • The contract could specify some minimum print quality standards.
  • The site these PDFs would be stored on may require hosting costs (if Keenspace would not allow a 600 meg PDF to be hosted which is probable). How would those be resolved?
  • Some kind of logging script would be needed to keep track of user information and who downloaded which file and to what region(s) of the world. That way somebody complains about a screwed up print job, we know who to blame. 8) This is nearly trivial to write but we would need admin permission to host this type of script on Keenspace.
  • Inclusion standards: pages would need to follow some very specific formatting rules in order to be considered for inclusion. These rules would have to be decided upon, but truthfully, we could just use ComixPress's Technical requirements or Dreamweaver Press's Submission standards
Producing the PDF would not be a big deal. I and several others have made mini-comics printable on 8.5x11 or A4 paper with your basic inkjet printer. It's not difficult if you have the pages already laid out.

As for hosting, given that the admins do not like MP3s and AVIs being hosted on Keenspace, it's probable that we would need some paid hosting to do this. Warren has offered in the past to host sites like the Saint Louis Cookout, but hosting huge PDFs would be an entirely different monster.
  • For the mini-comic I was thinking:
  • 30 pages maximum per issue.
  • The mini-comic must be printable on 8.5x11 or A4. Pages will be laid out as a spread before printing so your comic will be compressed to have a sheet of A4/8.5x11.
  • 600 dpi B&W pages. 300 dpi CMYK color pages. Remember to include a 6mm/.25in border around your pages so nothing gets cut off (unless that's what you want).
  • Anyone who meets the submission requirements would be included, even if it took multiple issues to do it.
  • Submissions would be handled on a first-come-first-served basis.
  • You wouldn't have to pay anything to submit a page.
  • One page per artist per deadline. This means if there are 60 submissions, two books will be printed but one artist can only have one page in one book.
  • All submissions must include the artist's copyright information, the creative commons notice and the URL for your Keenspace site.
  • The site will include:
  • User login and logging of which files were downloaded to which user.
  • An info page that says "I printed this many comics and distributed them at this location." That way we can get a reasonable idea of the kind of distribution each comic gets.
  • Printing instructions, recommendations for the type of printer and how to bind the comic.
  • Of course, the PDFs and how they get made so anyone with a reasonably powerful computer could do it if they wanted to.
  • If necessary, the PDFs could be burned onto CD and snail-mailed but that would require a paypal button to recover shipping and materials costs for whoever did the burning. Again, this is not a big deal.
Would there be any interest at all in this?
Would you print 5-10 copies of these books and take them to a con with you?

If I am insane, please tell me why because that info would be useful to have in the future. I can understand copyright concerns and people not having or being able to produce print quality pages.

I would like to get some feedback from anyone who has done this type of work in the past.

I would also like some feedback from the admins about whether this is feasible on Keenspace.

The way I see it. If you don't have people working to provide services for you, the best way to go about it is to provide the services for yourself. If enough of us are willing to do that then we become the company. The rest handles itself.

(( Made Sticky by STrRedWolf ))
Last edited by Faub on Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by Skylark King »

In a slightly similar vein I was thinking about a KeenSpace Con. I'm always up for doing work on something like that. Run it as a regular con with a focus on KeenSpace, it'd definately help get the word out there and the worst case scenerio involves a large handfull of spacers are in one place at the same time.
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Post by Coyotzin »

You are insane. :)

Actually, it sounds like an interesting idea; I can't go to cons in the U.S. and the surviving cons in Mexico City are more like flea markets for pirated material, so I wouldn't be able to help in that area, but I have a high speed connection, so I could DL the things and burn them to CD to send to other people.

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Post by Caduceus »

Sounds good. I'd definitely contribute and distribute some.
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Post by Nyke »

Coyotzin wrote:You are insane. :)
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Post by CJBurgandy »

Ooooh. I like both Faub's idea and Skylark's idea. I've never been to a con, but I think if I had a lot of prewarning I'd be able to save money to go to one.

But Faub, you're only insane because that's a requirment to be able to post on this forum.
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Post by Warren »

I'm interested, but that still sounds a little large for a PDF.
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Post by Christwriter »

Sounds seriously interesting.

One aspect I think you ought to consider is that some of us (ok, mostly just me, but other people may as well) either have or are going to have their own sale outlets fairly soon. I've already been planning on selling CDs, posters, print outs and such at my mother's art booth...and it did occor to me that it wasn't really fair for me to have such wonderful press (a little optimism never goes amiss, here) and not share it

Questions:

1. Would it be a round-robin style story or just a random collection of comics? Or would there be a script we would follow?

2. If it is a round-robin how would we know what to put into the pages?

3.If it is a script, how is that decided?

Personally, I think it's a great idea. I've never expected to get any "help" with advertising...One of the good things about planning novels instead of comics is that you overcome all those imaginary ideas about somebody else doing your advertising work for you. :roll: That doesn't happen in the book publishing industry...you gotta learn to look out for yourself and maybe if you're really lucky you get your hands on an agent and a publicist who can help you the first time around.

I think I'd love to participate.

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Post by Birdie »

I like the idea, I'm just totally confused on everything I don't know if I could submit a PDF, everything I do comes out either bitmap or Jpeg, due to my low resources and knowledge of art tools. Let me reread this post a few dozen times.
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Post by Rkolter »

I'd be glad to add something. Sounds like a decent idea.
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Post by BOMC »

yes, you are insane. and that is why i think this idea just might work.

i am in, when do we start?
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I WANT IN!!!

Post by Cortland »

Faub, this is a brilliant idea, and I WANT IN! Ever since I got my Keenspace "pixels to paper" comic book, I've been excited about the idea of putting some of the cool comics on Keenspace in print somehow, but haven't had any ideas how to go about it.

I've been using InDesign to make PDFs of my stuff for years now, and depending on the compression of the PDF you're thinking of, it'll probably be a lot less than 250 megs. The best solution would be to use line art (pure black and white) sized down to around 300-600 dpi. This would keep the quality consistent on inkjet or laser print, and would keep the file size, way down. I'd also be happy to help withthe design work on this booklet and even host it if necessary on my website Cornstalker.com.

Anyway, PM me if you'd like me to help. I'M ALL IN![/i]
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Post by Maxim Kovalenko »

Count me in...
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Post by Bek »

I'm in! I need to check the official limits, but I _think_ I might be able to be a hosting site, especially if we can keep the size down. I have webspace through work and I remember the size being pretty darn huge. Another idea could be to use torrents to spread the comic like a virus!!
My only hurdle would be getting things into PDF, something I haven't done before, but totally workable.
Yay! this'll be fun.
p.s. So, distribution at cons would just be to walk up to people and give them out, or is that only for folks with tables and such.
p.p.s We could also distribute them at our local comics shops!
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Post by JPSloan »

The logistics sound kind of hairy, but if negotiated, I don't see much of a downside.

Especially since the contributors will have to give a taste of preparing something for print, and therefore (ideally) up their quality.

Not to mention that the webcomic community, in general, needs some readers who aren't web comics.
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Post by Bek »

I checked my size limits, and 250 would fill me up (no room for my own stuff), so that's out. If it ends up being significantly smaller, though, I may be able to help out.
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Post by Faub »

Wow, so many replies so quickly.

The comic could be distributed anywhere you feel like it. That's kinda the point. YOU get to be the printer and distributor so you make the rules there. The idea is to get your comic seen by as many people as possible who wouldn't otherwise get to see it. Comic and gaming stores are good places to start. Talk with the owners. They will often let you leave a stack at the cash register or on a designated table or something. At cons you can leave them on the flyer table (or sell them for $1.50 at your own table. 8) )

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Warren: My 300 dpi pdfs range anywhere from 65 - 150 megs without covers and they're only 28 pages (14 spanned pages).

CW: I wasn't considering a script of any kind. It would be more like an ad book with each page saying "read my comic! Look I'm cool!" However, a scripted comic would be interesting and might be fun for a later issue. Right now I think it would be good to just make the thing. Once it's made then there's less of a stigma against making it.

Supernerdcore: That's the thing. You won't have to make the PDF. You'll get dimensions for the page that you'll submit. See below.

Cortland, bek: I don't know how compression in a PDF would affect the print quality since I don't know what type of compression it uses. Having multiple sites for hosting might be a better idea than the one I had. If one is slow, just download from the other. The best solution would be bittorrent, but that's an idea for later. It would require many people downloading constantly.

http://www.creativecommons.org/
Attribution-NoDerivs License is the licensce I was looking at for the PDF. The submitted images would be copyright the original artists but permission would be given for the pages to be published in this book. If anyone wants to look over the licenses to find a better solution they're welcome to do so. This should be a group effort anyway.
  • Submission sizes: (tenative)
  • The idea is to submit an image, the same way you submit your comic to keenspace except bigger (MUCH bigger). You don't need it to be in PDF format. That will be handled AFTER all the images have been submitted.
  • TIFF, PNG or GIF (lossless image formats) Uncompressed TIFF is pretty much the standard, but since we're doing this ourselves, anything will work. You just don't want to lose quality because you compressed the jpeg too much or something like that.
  • B&W/Grayscale images: 600 dpi
    Image Area: 2902 x 4585 pixels
    Image w/ 87 pixel trim: 3076 x 4759 pixels
  • Color images: 300 dpi
    Image Area: 1450 x 2292 pixels
    Image w/ 44 pixel trim: 1538 x 2380 pixels
  • Cover:
    B&W/Grayscale - 600 dpi: 3163 x 4759 pixels (with a hefty bleed on the right)
    Color - 300 dpi: 1582 x 2380 pixels (again, w/ a hefty bleed)
These are based on the amount of image that will fit on half an 8.5x11 page AND half an A4 page with margins for the printable area of a Brother HL-1440 printer (though the margins work pretty well for an HP Deskjet 720C). If anyone can provide printable area stats for a number of different printers, that would be good.

Oh, if you want to BUY some printing equipment (this is the stuff I'm looking at):
  • Brother HL-1440 has some of the best toner prices for print quality I've found. However, this model requires an extra 8-meg 72-pin SIMM to print the comic properly. Without it, you can print but you get error pages that suck up your toner.
  • Long Arm Stapler is needed for doing good saddle stitches. You can usually use these at copy shops like Kinkos or in libraries for free.
  • Rotary Heavy-duty Page Trimmer because the books are thick and ordinary page trimmers won't do it. Again, you can use the ones at Kinkos for free.

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Post by Zhan_Dvega »

Tres interresant. Count me in as well :o
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Another idea

Post by Cortland »

Faub, I think you may be going about this the wrong way. Instead of creating an "advertising" package for readers to print on their own and distribute, it might be a better idea to create a kind of digital "keenspace sampler." This would be a PDF with a wide variety of Keen comics inside it readers could download on their own and print out to read for their own enjoyment.

I have a deep, dark secret: I deeply prefer print comics to web comics. It's so much easier on the eyes, and often have much better detail. No scrolling around either. The reason I bought the Keenswag free comic book day comics was so I could read some of these comics I enjoy on the web in print instead, and they look so much better this way.

What do you think? Am I sounding crazy now?? :o
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Post by Executor_Arthas »

God, it's gonna be like I miny Keenspace Book!!! And as for frequency, I think that anymore that every two months, or even a quarterly comic might be too much hassle, you guys don't wanna know how much of a bitch getting everything ready for the Keenspace Book was... (And with the fact of there being not very many cons outside of summer, it'd be kinda pointless anyways...) I'd say that comic stores and cons are our best bet (BTW, I'd like to help out in any way possible), and that this'd be a great idea Faub. To be honest, I was kinda trying to find out some way to promote Keenspace anyways! (You should mention this to Chris, because he might be willing to sell them on KeenSwag, and we can use any possible money made off of it there, to get Chris to actually advertise Keenspace, without it having something to do with Keenspot... )
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