Guys writing female characters

[BloodKnight]

I'm suffering a wee bit of a dilema for my 'UPDATE MOR YOUR ARTIST ROXXORS' comic.

When I started making the scripts of this story, I had various different themes that Chronicles of Garas go from.

At first, I wanted some high-powered anime setting. Then I thought of Inuyasha and Dragonball, where I didn't really have any connection with the characters.

Then I thought of total realism, but that would kind of destroy the whole concept of fantasy and the technological setting my world is at. Mechs, machines, mechanical bits, dwarves with guns, land vehicles..

So then I decided to do something I didn't even thought of in the first place: Dark fantasy.

I've read some books and watched some movies (both animated and live) that fit into genre, and one thing I noticed that in these great dark fantasy stories, the characters were very realistic. They weren't two-dimesional and they had their own goals, conflicts, and ideals about the world. While JRR Tolkien invented the whole fantasy genre, we didn't care too much about Gandalf, Gimil, or Legolas. If anyone, we cared about Frodo only (Sam was an annoying prick). I wanted to make my audience give a damn about my characters, and cringe at the thought that they go through the bullshit that I present to them.

But one thing I'm doing that even Tolkien did was have female characters. Not just one female or two, but plenty of them. Three of them are the main protangists, while one of them is the villian for the first hundred pages or more.

One of the many things I've learned about most male comic writers is they don't portray a woman very well. As one person said it, "A guy with boobs".

I don't want to alienate my female audience and make them despise me for my characters. Before anyone asks, the women in my comic kick a lot of ass. Probably more then the guys. As I said in another post, I'm trying to avoid cliches or at least make them noticable by the characters.

How does a writer avoid cristism (sp) about having crappy unrealistic female characters?

[Beyonder_alpha]

First up, let's translate "kicks a lot of ass" in self-awareness. Most men with self awareness tend to have oversized ego's or a dark past adding to the self awareness, what you could do to divert here, is bring in sadness, friendship or sexuality into play. (dun kill me for the last part :p)
Also the transgression(sp?) from normal every day mode into overpowering modus with a man is usually fast and spectaculair, they go insane, they get hurt severely, yatta yatta yatta...
With a woman you can alter this to a cat and mouse game sort of transgression and make it lengthier. Always try and preserve an aura of mystic and secrecy. Add elegance and if it suits your character, a discontempt for men or alike to further develop their character.

But then again, this is just an opinion of another guy :grins:

[TheBladeRoden2]

make the women man-haters. works for me. Haven't gotten that criticism you speak of yet!

[Phact0rri]

as in a general feeling for me as male writer, I approach the sexes in words as I do in artwork. there is a default or general approach to men and women. men have larger necks thicker shoulders.. shorter thighs, etc that tells the reader "hey this is symbolic of man" and women with thinner necks rounced shoulders larger mouths, longer thighs, and that from the breast to the hips then out again body shape.

In writing to "symbolize" the diffrence I tend to use the alloagory, men think from whats in front of them, what they see and what they smell, and well they always act in a more linear situation. women on the other hand tend think more with a deeper construct... "how does this make me feel" and are guided more by how things seem to them. when they react its more emotion and less "literal"

this is not true, neither in art nor in writing.. not all women have longer thighs or thinner shoulders. but it works in the symbolic nature that as I see it is what comicking is all about.

[Faub]

All Tolkien's main characters were male. The only real exception was the daughter of the king of Rohen. Even in her great moment on the story, one of the hobbits helped her so it wasn't completely her victory. Lord of the Rings was as much a guy's tale as Star Wars.

If you want to make a believable female character, don't TRY to make a believable female character. Just make her a person who happens to be female. If all your characters can do is drink beer, belch and tell fart jokes then nobody is going to believe your male characters either so it's a moot point.

Dave Sim once asked himself what people do. "They talk." There are no long internal monologues in life. Characters are defined by what they say, how they act and how they treat each other. Action is just an extreme consequence of conflict. It happens very rarely. The spaces in between are filled with people talking.

In Dragonball, the characters are defined by their power level. It's an effort in oneupsmanship, ultimately leading nowhere. The monsters get bigger and badder and the good guys change costumes. There are no real characters in Dragonball. Nobody grows. Nobody changes.

Inuyasha is a Takahashi story. The characters were defined in the first few issues. The characters were the same from then on. The story was the same from then on. She did it with Urusei Yatsura and Ranma 1/2. Her best story ever was Maisson Ikkoku. The main characters at least fulfilled their goal in that one.

A good story will have a beginning a purpose and an ending. Soap opera style storytelling is effective if you can keep the reader in constant suspense. Eventually, though, you just run out of material. The moment the story gets repetitive, the reader loses interest. Poke around a bit and you'll find people stating how much they hate newspaper comics and how Garfield is just regurgitated 80's comedy.

Realism doesn't mean no magic and no mecha. You just need to have good reasons for including them. Babylon 5 was a very realistic sci-fi series. One of the episodes was about the Techno-mages and the idea that any significantly advanced technology could be considered magic to the uninformed. A mecha is just a significantly complex piece of machinery. You can make the assumption that the motor control software is very mature and that designing a walking robot is as easy as assembling a car.

[Phalanx]

make the women man-haters. works for me. Haven't gotten that criticism you speak of yet!

No offense, but I always thought that was rather cliche.

Oh, and I present to you: The Essential Guide to Mary Sue. This one is meant for the Lord of the Rings fanfic, but another name for the characters section could have been 'Cliche' heroines that you ought to avoid in Fantasy works.

*rereads the guide and dies laughing*

By the way, I feel compelled to add that

A female character that can fight and kick men's asses does not automatically equate to a strong female character.

Thank you.

[Fadedflame]

*looks down at the 'man with boobs comment'* Hey I resemble that remark! The problem is not matter how you portray your female characters you are going to have someone that says, that's so sterotypical, or they act just like guys!
Women come in many different flavors, and that's definitly one thing you are going to want to remember when creating the characters. Don't make them all the same.
After all, one women may like dresses and another may prefer playing football with the boys, or both!
The secret is diversity and depth..and growth of course.

~Faded

[Mercury Hat]

When writing just keep in mind that women can't drive or do math and men think with their penises. Problem solved!

But seriously, writing for females shouldn't be difficult. Yes, there are differences in the sexes, but honestly people are people and being male or female doesn't matter much. I think you should be aware of and avoid any sex-based cliches and you should be fine.

This is something I've never thought about before, though. Women, do you wonder how to write male characters?

[Phalanx]

This is something I've never thought about before, though. Women, do you wonder how to write male characters?

I always try and base mine on real people.

[TheBladeRoden2]

make the women man-haters. works for me. Haven't gotten that criticism you speak of yet!

No offense, but I always thought that was rather cliche.

At last! I have finally provoked a response from a forum member!

[Mr.Bob]

This is something I've never thought about before, though. Women, do you wonder how to write male characters?

I like them big and strong.

[Jim North]

we didn't care too much about Gandalf,

We didn't?

[Dr.Otto]

---I come from a comic world that has a 3-to-1 ratio of female to male characters, and it's not always easy to try and make real characters out of them (especially when they look like mine do). Some are clones, some are huge, some are massively overstacked, some are dead...but sometimes, physical exaggerations can help to add another facet to the characters. Lindy's oversized implants are the result of her trying to resurrect a flagging career, Andrah's hypertrophied physique was forced upon her by her own species, Sheeri's comparatively diminutive stature only adds to her sense of inadequacy...there's lots of things you can do to give female characters a bit more depth even when they only seem superficial. In fact, if you can make a really attractive (or physically unusual) character project more than just their look, that can be a real win...not that I've managed to do this yet, but it's an ongoing process.

---Another thing that I do that's really strange is when I create a character, I attach a voice actor to that particular individual. This not only helps develop the visual style, but also helps certain aspects of their personalities as well as the way their dialogue is written.

[Rkolter]

I don't draw females (tess excluded, and she's basically ABOL with a color change and a bow), but I do write them.

Here's the funny thing. You aren't writing about every second of every minute of your characters lives. And (depending on the society your characters come from) there is a tremendous range in both male and female characteristics.

So a female character, to be female, merely needs to be well developed as an individual. As well developed as the other characters in your comic. Think about it. When is a woman a woman first and a person second? Basically, when other people need to react to her as a woman or when she's deliberately trying to get a reaction based on her gender.

Think about your typical reactions to women. Here are some of mine...

I have plenty of female friends. I think of them as people. When I call them to see if they want to hang out, I don't think, "I need a female in the party", I'm thinking "I need this friend to come by because she's funny/likes horror movies too/owes me fifty bucks and I'm getting it tonight/etcetera."

My ex-boss was female. I never really considered her female. She was just my boss. Yeah, if asked I'd be able to give a description of her, but usually I just would say, "My boss is pretty cool, her name's XXX". And leave it at that.

At the post office yesterday I had the unusual experience of being behind a guy who walked up to the next available person and said, "Can I please have a man help me?" It wasn't until then that I noticed that yes, in fact every person manning a station was a woman. In this case, the guy reacted to her gender.

I saw a woman at The Lion King (the play) who was wearing a dress that wasn't really there and a top to match. She probably wouldn't have been knock-out gorgeous if she hadn't put the effort into it. She was deliberately going for a reaction based on her gender (and boy, did she get it too).

In the end, it's just important to make your female character a person first. Then just write your story and be sure to keep the characters in character. The rest will fall naturally.

[Xmung]

like faub and phalanx, my approach is to go for person over gender. i enjoy writing for female characters though.

[Mattgo210]

As far as my young comic goes there are no female characters in it yet and so far in the near future there are no plans for there to be. Somehow I just never feel right drawing or writing a female character. I just feel guilty somehow but eventually I will have to overcome this and add some new female characters.

[Warren]

What RKolter said. Every word.

[Evil Jamie!]

It depends of that certain characters personality.

[Alschroeder]

It's very tempting to say, "I do a super-heroine. I don't HAVE to do her realisticly!"
But in all honesty...
Both sides of my heroine have their own persona...they've even gotten into arguments (in fact, my heroine wouldn't be a super-heroine except her alter ego blackmailed her into it...)
Here's an example where one part is arguing with her other self---actually a videotaped lecture by same...at http://mindmistress.keenspace.com/siege6.htm ....and to a certain extent, they write themselves. They aren't supposed to be "realistic" as women, but as persons---one as a retarded young woman working in a pet store, and one---well, as realistic as you can get when you're talking about a being with a 794 I.Q. and perfect memory.
So...sort of echoing what others said---person first, gender definitely second.---Al

[NotoriousMEQ]

As one person said it, "A guy with boobs".

That was me. Heh.

Bascially, what you don't want to do is write a character and then decide the gender. That's how you get men with boobs. If you can switch genders on your character and they're the same, then you've got some more work to do.

Here's a short list:

DON'T:

- Have "the token female character". Having more than one female means you're under a lot less pressure to stay away or defy stereotypes and you can write a little more organically. Example : PVP. Jade looks a lot less like a stereotype because Marcy came on board, despite both of them having having a few stereotypical qualities. They both seem more like real people who just happen to embody stereotypes, like most real people.

- The Mary Sue thing. Don't make your dream girl a character.

DO:

- Read a LOT of first person autobiographical stuff. People think differently depending on where and how they grew up and who was in their lives. They'll make different choices depending on that. You need to study how people of different backgrounds (yes, growing up female is a different background) think and value things. A girl growing up in the states with parents who support her being a tomboy and all boy friends is still going to realize she's a girl and will still be sensitive to media around her telling her what a girl means. She may act like a boy, but may be jealous/spiteful/wistful about girly girls.

-base characters off friends, especially if you mix a few people together. Just keep in mind that stories and people that work well in real life may not work so well in fiction. Just because it happened just like for real doesn't mean it won't come off like a cheesy network movie in your comic.

- Remember people do like to embody stereotypes. It's like how people love to classify what their politics are by two groups, even if they are 50/50 in actual politcal theory with both. People do love to classify themselves and try to be more stereotypical. Not enough people write diverse characters who are TRYING to be a stereotype and failing.

- Put it all in context with the sort of comic you're doing. In many older comedic plays (Aristophanes to Tartuffe to Shakespeare), the humor RELIES on the audience immediately knowing who the characters are. So the playwrights would use "stock characters". You had your clown, your shrewish old woman, your innocent young woman, your stingy, rich oblivious man, your hero, your smart sevant who was the only one who knew what's going on, etc. In a comedy or especially a comic where the story is very simplified and compressed, having easily identifiably characters is the way to go. You don't need rich, developed characters.

-Meaghan

[Edit - screwish? hahaha ]