Keenspace The RPG

[Orion]

Ok, since its summer now it seems like we should get the ball rolling. Seeing as how Tim and me are the only volunteers for leadership positions we're going to split into two teams, I'll be handling the RPG team.

I imagine we'll be sharing the artists between ourselves so what we really need to do is divide up programmers.

unfortunatley I'm ignorant of programming, so two things:

1) we need volunteers to program and otherwise help construct the game, unless you're sure you'll have enough time don't volunteer for my team if you've already joined Tim's. We don't want anyone to stress out on time

2) among the volunteers please let me know if you have ever programmed a game, especially as a part of a team. what we really need to figure out is how this will be organized and how responsibilities will be divided between our programmers.

[Orion]

Something else we need to decide on an RPG type, I figure no matter the format it will be level/action based as opposed to a puzzle-heavy game or anything like that. Here are the categories I can think of, feel free to suggest your own.


1-Sprite Game, probably FF style

2-point and click, either 3rd or 1st person.

3-text based

4- MMORPG (okay I'm kidding with this last one)

[TimberWolf]

What if we made an RPG using flash?

[Phact0rri]

I vote point and click 3rd person. I use to love those sorts of games.

[Orion]

What if we made an RPG using flash?

Well, we can throw that out to the programmers who may one day volunteer.


As far as my two cents on the RPG I kind of like games like FF and chrono trigger, so I'm more for walk-around style games, although that could be applied to a lot of the above anyway. I suppose a good example of a flash version of that would be the adventure quest spin-off arch-knight http://battleon.com/aq-about-ak.asp

[TimberWolf]

I have programming experience, but it is only high school. Another option is Gamemaker.

[Orion]

Well, one thing to keep in mind about any game making system is that we want it to be fully compatible with the various OS's we all use, I seem to remember that was a problem with RPGmaker (among others). I don't know whether gamemakers suffers from that problem but keep every keep that in mind for future suggestions.

[TimberWolf]

The problem with RPG Maker that I remember was that it wouldn't let you enter in custom names.

Gamemaker was created independly from RPG Maker.

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I got to thinking and this is how a game would be broken down.

1. Programming

2. Story/Plot

3. Level Design

4. Character/Monster Design

5. Sound/Music

---------------------------------

I'm interested in Programming and Sound/Music.

*I don't mean to be stepping on any toes orion.

[Vorticus]

We first have to decide whether the RPG's game engine is going to be built from scratch, or if we're going to use a game engine that's already in existance. Not trying to take over or anything, but as someone interested in the programming it makes a world of difference to me which way we go. I need to know if I should start thinking about how to build a RPG from scratch.

[Gage Kronos]

I vote for #4!!!

[Orion]

We first have to decide whether the RPG's game engine is going to be built from scratch, or if we're going to use a game engine that's already in existance. Not trying to take over or anything, but as someone interested in the programming it makes a world of difference to me which way we go. I need to know if I should start thinking about how to build a RPG from scratch.

well, could you point out some of the pros and cons of building one from scratch, since I'm guessing we can get some basic game engine for any sort of game we choose somehow. Like I said, I'll need to have help from the programmers with this, feel free to give suggestions.

[Terotrous]

well, could you point out some of the pros and cons of building one from scratch, since I'm guessing we can get some basic game engine for any sort of game we choose somehow. Like I said, I'll need to have help from the programmers with this, feel free to give suggestions.

I'll field this one:
Pros:
Starting from scratch allows for much greater flexibility. This would be most important if you were going to do a "real" RPG. Most of the makers out there churn out generic FF4 games. These days, RPGs need to have some innovation (usually to the battle system), so from scratch is usually the best way to go. RPGs, however, are extremely easy to program (esp in 2D).
Quality. No maker game can stand up to a from scratch game even if they're doing the same thing if you put real effort into it.
Distribution. You don't have to give any one else credit.

Cons:
Time. Obiviously using a maker is quicker.
Easiness. Anyone can use a maker. You don't need an actual programmer.


I'd recommend the 3rd person point and click adventure. It gives you the greatest focus on writing and art (no battle systems or nothing to bog it down). In this case, I suspect the maker might actually be a good idea (since 99% of this would be hard-coding anyway). I haven't actually checked out Adventure Game Studio, but it sounds like a good thing to make a game creator for.

[Orion]

Well, then lets say we're doing it from scratch, if for some reason we run dry of programmers we may have to switch over to a gamemaker, but I see no reason not to be optimistic.

[Superlance]

I can't program anything; but I'd be more than happy to do any character, monster, or scenery designs.
Just give a general idea of what you want; and how much detail you want for them (on scale from 1-10).

And how many angle would they need to be draw from?

Front, 3/4 left, left side, back, right, and 3/4 right?

[Vorticus]

Well, then lets say we're doing it from scratch, if for some reason we run dry of programmers we may have to switch over to a gamemaker, but I see no reason not to be optimistic.

In such case, which language? Or are you leaving that up to the programmers. Either way all involved with the project should meet for a group chat to hammer out detail of who is doing what.

[[AlmightyPyro]]

Well as I stand I can contribute to both the fighting and RPG games, the thing is I have to choose. I might wind up with the RPG though scince I'm a RPG addict and I have experience making them.

First off, why couldn't we do the great Zelda platform? I'd think it be the easiest. No battle sequences, just good old slash at will real time fighting with the greatness of over head 2D-ness! That would make char/monster/scenery making easy. Just make the character a cool chibi look of a good 15x15 pixles or what none.

Second, if we are doing the point and click platform what will the deminsions be like and how would the battling work? It would be cool to have an action menu like on Never Winter Nights. I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard either.

[Robp]

Hi! I was programming an RPG last year, but stopped due to lack of time. Game development is a LOT of work, but can be fun. Anyways, I have work and school all summer, so right now it looks like I don't have the time to help, but I will give you a few tips. Some of them may be obvious, some may not, but please be aware I'm not trying to be condescending or anything

Cross-Platform Compatibility:
I would strongly suggest a combination of C and SDL if you want your game to work on all platforms. Using those, you could get your game to compile on Windows, Mac OS 8/9, Mac OS X, Linux, FreeBSD, etc. You could use different C compilers for different platforms, but I would recommend the GCC toolkit to get started. GCC is free, so development wouldn't be hampered by costs of additional software.

http://www.libsdl.org
http://gcc.gnu.org/
http://www.mingw.org

Sprites:
Assuming you did a sprite based game, I just wanna make sure people are aware of how much work this is. Lets say you do eight directions of walking. The minimum number of frames for a chunky, Dragon Warrior Walk would be 3. For a smoother walk you want 5 or 7 frames. The reason for odd numbers is because the center frame shoudln't need to be doubled. Thats a LOT of sprites when you add in multiple characters, different attacks, etc, thats a lot of work. Probably about 80% of the work in game development is going to be content creation, not programming. Luckily, you have plenty of willing artists around here, but you need to make sure that someone everyone respects will manage them.

EDIT: You can drop that down to 5 directions, and mirror the other 3, if you really want to. It will become obvious on character designs that aren't symmetrical (especially weapons and stuff). It really just depends on how much attention to detail you want. If I remember, Legend of Mana does this, because its a totally scan based game, and has MANY weapons, so they probably wanted to cut the time down.

Maps and levels:
in a 2d game, there are two major ways you could do this:

-Tile Based: maps are constructed from an array of different tiles, and then usually other objects (trees, houses, whatever) are put on top. The nice thing about this is that you can make very small map files, and its easy to make an editor for them. I implemented this by making a small file header, an array of tiles, and then a linked list of objects.

-Scan based: I dunno a better term, but if you play something like Legend of Mana, or FF7-9, all of the maps are solid blocks of predrawn art with some data about how sprites should move about them. This is more work, the map data is larger, and you may have to do scaling of sprites as they move along parts of the level, but its SOOOO pretty

Sound:
I didn't do a lot with this, but probably the most versatile format for music would be to use MOD files. They are relatively small, but can create wonderful sounding music. If you don't believe me, most of the music for Unreal and Unreal Tournament used mod files. Also, there is plenty of wonderful free software for musicians to use. I don't have a link, but try and find modplug tracker. You could also possibly use this for storing sound effects.

http://mikmod.raphnet.net/

Last Notes (cause I have to go eat ) : Make sure the programmer(s) understand data structures well, (like linked lists, trees, and stuff). You probably are going to want to find a scripting language, so that less technical people can easily implement quests and events in the game. Maybe you can use Lua? Also, make sure to document EVERYTHING! Even before you start writing/drawing/composing, make sure you clearly lay out design goals in concise, specific terms.

Good luck!

[[AlmightyPyro]]

Sprites:
Assuming you did a sprite based game, I just wanna make sure people are aware of how much work this is. Lets say you do eight directions of walking. The minimum number of frames for a chunky, Dragon Warrior Walk would be 3. For a smoother walk you want 5 or 7 frames. The reason for odd numbers is because the center frame shoudln't need to be doubled. Thats a LOT of sprites when you add in multiple characters, different attacks, etc, thats a lot of work. Probably about 80% of the work in game development is going to be content creation, not programming. Luckily, you have plenty of willing artists around here, but you need to make sure that someone everyone respects will manage them.

I have a feeling we'll manage. If it's one thing I've learned about keenspace is that it has a strong will to survive, and great artist and programers who can pull it off. You do have a point, but there are ways around every thing. If the amount of work is what puls us down then we don't deserve to finish it.

[Robp]

...If the amount of work is what puls us down then we don't deserve to finish it.

I certainly wouldn't say that. Hard work is what drives artists. The constant schedules some people keep here are pretty amazing I just meant that its a lot of work in addition to peoples webcomics/school/work/sleep/etc. If you have several people all doing even just a few characters, then it shouldn't be a problem. I really look forward to what people come up with!

[Xaviar]

I program. It's what I do. I like it, I'm a nerd.
Heh.. Um, lezze here, I've managed a scripting team for an MMORPG (Graal) If you know it, that's not the greatest recommendation, I know, but I swear, I was actually good at it
Used Gscript, which is essentially a ripoff of C.
I do know C and C++, and I can learn other languages as neccessary.

If you'd ask me, I'd tell you that I'd prefer a sprite-based, tile-based game. Easiest for all parties involved, I personally like it the best from a programming aspect, and it'd be easier for keenspacers doing the art, as nobody needs to worry about modeling.

I'd really prefer it if I had some sort of engine to work with, but if you don't mind how long I take, I suppose I could chalk one up. I don't have a lot of cross-platform experience though, I'd probably need somebody to port and compile for other platforms.

*shrug* This is all assuming you like me enough to make me do things. (Or hate. Making me do things could definately stem from hate.) And the way the rest of this works out.. Mostly, just putting myself out as an option for programmer.