Race in Comics

Escushion · Post by **Escushion** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:23 pm

mcDuffies wrote:
Vorticus wrote:
blackaby wrote: I can't believe you actually posted that.
I'm surprised at that too.
In defence, I think that I get what Dutch is trying to say: some people didn't have luck to grow in liberal society such is this one (at least remotely) and sometimes prejudices are result of someone's being raised in society, or even a family, with a certain mind-set - and not his bad character. Such influences aren't always easy to overcome.
I recall the story of how my grandpa was the first man in his village who didn't beat his wife. Does that make every other man in the village a bad person? How likely is that entire male population in that village was a bad person? Nah, they're just simply products of their time and place.
And then, once a person is equipped with a certain mind-set, it's hard to change. I think that what Dutch is trying to say is that trying to change the mindset of 70-something years old man is a waste of time and energy. You know - leave him be and do whatever you think is right, because he won't be around for long anyway.

I do remember saying similar to this. Perhaps it was all a dream.

Mr. Neil · Post by **Mr. Neil** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:54 pm

I never think about the races of characters. It's never a conscious or deliberate thing. Selecting race is no more important than selecting any other characteristic. If I'm coming up with a new character, sometimes I'll just think to myself, "I think this person might be black", and that's basically about as much thought that goes into it.

Prettysenshi · Post by **Prettysenshi** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:21 pm

Mr. Neil wrote:I never think about the races of characters. It's never a conscious or deliberate thing. Selecting race is no more important than selecting any other characteristic. If I'm coming up with a new character, sometimes I'll just think to myself, "I think this person might be black", and that's basically about as much thought that goes into it.

Thanks for summing up my thoughts on the subject. You took the words right out of my brain.

Yeahduff · Post by **Yeahduff** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:16 pm

Mr. Neil wrote:I never think about the races of characters. It's never a conscious or deliberate thing. Selecting race is no more important than selecting any other characteristic. If I'm coming up with a new character, sometimes I'll just think to myself, "I think this person might be black", and that's basically about as much thought that goes into it.

This sounds nice, but when you find yourself with a cast that resembles the Cleavers, you may begin to wonder about yourself.

My characters are mostly not determined racially (OK, Lori is definitely the whitest person on the planet). Charles can be Mexican or Italian or Jewish, and I think Mary is mostly Anglican/Irish with a touch of Japanese (she has a great aunt who was in the internment camps (yes, this is based on someone I know)). But until any of this comes up, I guess the reader can decide.

If Dutch is evil, that comment doesn't really confirm it. I disagree too, but let's keep some perspective.

MixedMyth · Post by **MixedMyth** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:26 pm

Yes, yes there is. Race is important in Mixed Myth. But I did not want it to be so in a way that would be analigous to actual real world race cultures. Don't get me wrong- I wanted it to be applicable such that people can be familiar with the general trends in tolerance, biggotry, hurts, slights, loves, hates, and all the rest of it. But I did NOT want to go with 'this is this race, and that is that race.' Even though I have a degree in Anthropology, I know next to nothing about other race cultures. Not the way that an insider would. If anything, studying anthro has made me realize that accutely. So rather than have my story become some stilted analogy to contemporary races and their politics, I decided that having fantastic ones would allow anyone to 'tap into' and identify with the various sides and get the qualities out of it that I had intended.

That, and I love fantasy.

Pillywiggin · Post by **Pillywiggin** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:26 pm

yeahduff wrote:If Dutch is evil, that comment doesn't really confirm it. I disagree too, but let's keep some perspective.

I think that if this guy is in his 70s now and is still taking his attitude out on children, I really don't want to know what he was doing back in his prime in the '50s. In the south.

I also think that someone who is American would have a different perspective on this than someone from Australia.

Yeahduff · Post by **Yeahduff** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:31 pm

You're absolutely right. I guess I mean that if we're gonna discuss this, avoid being personal about it (even if that seems contradictory).

Rkolter · Post by **Rkolter** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:43 am

I don't think it's right to compare the racism this grandfather showed with Nazi Germany during WWII. While both are obvious cases of racism, it is not on the same level. nor do I think it's fair to suggest that if he is a racist like that in the 1970's, that he must have been much worse in the 1950's in the South.

While there are a LOT of people with racist attitudes, those attitudes often extend no further than a subconcious response. When faced with their racism, these people tend to be embarassed by it.

A smaller population is significantly racist, and unlikely to change their ways. But it's only the tiniest population that is not only racist, but actively willing to harm others.

Racism is bad and should not be tolerated, even in the elderly. But this man's racism doesn't imply that when he was younger he was more active and meaner, nor is it fair to compare him to the guards herding jews into death chambers.

Mvmarcz · Post by **Mvmarcz** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:22 am

As far as I know my grandfather never hurt anyone becuase of their race, honestly I don't want to know that about him, I have many other perfectly justifiable reasons to dislike him that relate directly to his treatment of me and my siblings. Blackably asked for the reason, I gave it. I didn't mean to start a big thing ._.

Ryuko · Post by **Ryuko** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:41 am

Races in my comic are either directly determined (by the fact that they're based on people with different races, as with Lady Groincrush, based a Vietnamese-Chinese friend of mine) or indirectly determined. (The only main character who's not based on a real person, Jack the Fireman, ended up being half-Japanese, somehow. O_o And I'm debating over making a villain character Hispanic, but I worry that that's not a good idea.)

I do often feel that my characters are too homogenous, but I live in a place that's fairly homogenous. I have to pay attention to the background characters, because I'd like it to accurately represent the area I live in and the kinds of people I see going through my city.

Pillywiggin · Post by **Pillywiggin** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:25 am

rkolter wrote:Racism is bad and should not be tolerated, even in the elderly. But this man's racism doesn't imply that when he was younger he was more active and meaner, nor is it fair to compare him to the guards herding jews into death chambers.

You're right of course. Without actual knowledge of someone I (and other people?) tend to at least consider the worse case scenarios. Simply sticking to what has actually been said of him, he has been spewing some vile things during a rather unpleasent time and place in history and never stopped doing it.

The actual point of my post was that I don't think Dutch knew what kind of nerve he was hitting and people shouldn't pick on him.

M2 wrote:As far as I know my grandfather never hurt anyone becuase of their race, honestly I don't want to know that about him, I have many other perfectly justifiable reasons to dislike him that relate directly to his treatment of me and my siblings. Blackably asked for the reason, I gave it. I didn't mean to start a big thing ._.

*zips lips*

I hope I didn't say anything to offend you. Shutting up now.

Starline · Post by **Starline** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:42 am

The Candi cast is pretty diverse because its based on friends that I've had growing up in Miami, Fl. and then going to college in Gainesville, Fl.
It's really because I'm drawing and writing what I know.

Candi is mixed, like myself: Her dad was Jewish and her mom is Black Caribbean from St. Maarten. She's heavily influenced by Miami Hispanic culture because of her friends from when she was younger.

Alex: Cuban, born there, and moved to Miami with his family when he was 6.

Jon: Puerto Rican. Raised in New York, and then his family moved to Miami when he was around 8.

Jessica: African-American. Her behavior and attitude is a mix of how some of my family members act and some of my friends from school.

Linda: White, but from Central Florida. Raised with Southern Hospitality influences.

Laura: White, but from a bigger city. Probably Orlando, or Jacksonville.

Trevor: From England, but moved to the US around 12 years old. His family moved around the country a lot. He doesn't really have a home town.

Chris: Half Cuban, half White. Raised by his dad in Miami.

Prettysenshi · Post by **Prettysenshi** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:36 am

starline wrote:The Candi cast is pretty diverse because its based on friends that I've had growing up in Miami, Fl. and then going to college in Gainesville, Fl.
It's really because I'm drawing and writing what I know.

Candi is mixed, like myself: Her dad was Jewish and her mom is Black Caribbean from St. Maarten. She's heavily influenced by Miami Hispanic culture because of her friends from when she was younger.

Alex: Cuban, born there, and moved to Miami with his family when he was 6.

Jon: Puerto Rican. Raised in New York, and then his family moved to Miami when he was around 8.

Jessica: African-American. Her behavior and attitude is a mix of how some of my family members act and some of my friends from school.

Linda: White, but from Central Florida. Raised with Southern Hospitality influences.

Laura: White, but from a bigger city. Probably Orlando, or Jacksonville.

Trevor: From England, but moved to the US around 12 years old. His family moved around the country a lot. He doesn't really have a home town.

Chris: Half Cuban, half White. Raised by his dad in Miami.

I had a feeling that it was only a matter of time before you posted.

And although race isn't mentioned in your comic often, if ever, I appreciate the diversity.

Alschroeder · Post by **Alschroeder** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:40 am

My main character is caucasian, as I am, but I think I have a fairly racially mixed cast---Forethought and Ulysses Shore is African-American, Man-Mountain's Chinese, etc.
---Al

Mr.Bob · Post by **Mr.Bob** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:14 pm

..Sorry. Had a sudden flashback of Superfriends just there.

The Neko · Post by **The Neko** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:26 pm

Mr.Bob wrote:..Sorry. Had a sudden flashback of Superfriends just there.

Haha. Yeah. They were pretty bad. But I'd have to say the most racist cartoon I've seen in recent history was "Ricketty Rocket".

Prettysenshi · Post by **Prettysenshi** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:34 pm

The Neko wrote:
Mr.Bob wrote:..Sorry. Had a sudden flashback of Superfriends just there.
Haha. Yeah. They were pretty bad. But I'd have to say the most racist cartoon I've seen in recent history was "Ricketty Rocket".

If you want to see some prejudice in cartoons, watch Looney Tunes. That stuff was drowning in it, and I didn't know as a kid, but looking back, it had a lot. Still good television though.

TheSuburbanLetdown · Post by **TheSuburbanLetdown** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:46 pm

prettysenshi2k6 wrote:
The Neko wrote:
Mr.Bob wrote:..Sorry. Had a sudden flashback of Superfriends just there.
Haha. Yeah. They were pretty bad. But I'd have to say the most racist cartoon I've seen in recent history was "Ricketty Rocket".
If you want to see some prejudice in cartoons, watch Looney Tunes. That stuff was drowning in it, and I didn't know as a kid, but looking back, it had a lot. Still good television though.

There was the ocasional black-face gag and knocks at the Irish in some Droopy and Tom & Jerry cartoons. And there's an episde of Bugs Bunny that's rarely shown now called "Bugs Bunny Nips the Nips."

Princess · Post by **Princess** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:50 pm

This is a really interesting topic!

I feel happiness and pride because Toy Division is one of the few comics that deals with interracial marriages. *

*General Wang's mother hates Snowball because she is a gold digging trollop not because she is caucasian.

Sincerely · Post by **Sincerely** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:05 pm

Ryuko wrote:And I'm debating over making a villain character Hispanic, but I worry that that's not a good idea.)

Aww, you can't back out of making a villain Hispanic, 'cause then I'll feel bad about making one of -my- villains hispanic.