Your Gaming Past/Pres/Futu

[Yeahduff]

And a WHOLE lot of effort goes into sports games, but there's so much information that goes into them trying to recreate an experience that a lot of people witness everyday and know every in & out of that including everything and making every single character (based on a real live person) one hundred percent fluid as well as unique is an immense task. It's easy to think the same thing about Grand Theft Auto, until you consider how many cars and people they have to fill these cities with.

Also, people like sports games because they like sports. It's neat to control the team you follow and make your favorite player do things you can't. You are just as able to race a car as you are to play in front of thousands of people at United Center. It's still escapism, it's just a little different.

I will say that ever since Madden 94 sports games have gotten way too involved. Give me Tecmo Bowl any day.

But yeah, sports are dumb.

[Terotrous]

I dunno, I don't buy it. I've gone back and played a lot of old games (both one's I played as a kid and ones I never got to play) and most of them are fun for about a half hour and then the novelty wears off and they get boring pretty quick. But I find that as each console generations passes there is a much higher percentage of games I can play and still enjoy past the point of novelty.

Well, it's quite possible some of this may have to do with changing tastes. Earlier you were comparing things like Mass Effect and Super Mario World, but those games clearly don't have much in common from a gameplay standpoint and it's quite reasonable that some people might like one but not the other. A better question is how do you feel about modern 2D platformers, like New Super Mario Bros 2, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Kirby Returns to Dreamland, Sonic Colors, etc? The general sentiment is that from this list, only Kirby can really stand up to its counterpart from the 16-bit era.


Now, some of this undoubtedly has to do with the fact that 2D Platformers aren't a technically demanding genre and there really may not have been much further to go after the 16-bit era. There are some genres that have definitely been helped a lot by technical innovations. Racing and Sports games benefited tremendously from the advent of 3D graphics, and in general tend to keep getting better over time. Strategy games have benefited from things like online play and patches. There are some old games in these genres that still hold up, but generally because there's something very unique about them. Titles that didn't challenge the status quo, like NES Rad Racer and NES Golf, are very dated now.


And of course, there are some people who enjoy video games more for presentation and immersion than gameplay. Such individuals are often treated in a derogatory manner by hardcore gamers but it's simply the way some people are. My best-friend since childhood is one of these, we've both been playing games for 20+ years and while I can go back and appreciate the older games, he's really only interested in the newer ones.

So my conclusion - sports video games are for people who play for the sports and not necessarily for the visual, design or technical aspects of the game. So I had no business complaining about the obvious poor quality and stiffness of the characters' models.

Well, there's two main types of Sports games - Simulation-style and Arcade-style. The simulation games aim for accuracy and realism and are generally preferred by serious sports fans. Arcade games take the general gist of the sport and make alterations to it, generally to appeal to those who aren't interested in the real thing. The presentation in simulation games can sometimes be a bit dry, but it's not unheardof for arcade-style games to focus on things like art style or atmosphere that you wouldn't generally associate with sports. Shaun White Road Trip on Wii is a good example of this, it's a heavily stylized snowboarding game about a bunch of friends on a snowboarding trip around the world that really does a good job of making it seem fun and exciting, even if you're the kind of person who would never set foot on a slope.

Give me Tecmo Bowl any day.

Tecmo Super Bowl is probably the only simulation-style sports game I actually enjoy.

[Bustertheclown]

What I should've realized back then is that the reason he plays video games is not the same as mine.

I think this sums up the debate pretty succinctly, to be honest.

[IVstudios]

A better question is how do you feel about modern 2D platformers, like New Super Mario Bros 2, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Kirby Returns to Dreamland, Sonic Colors, etc? The general sentiment is that from this list, only Kirby can really stand up to its counterpart from the 16-bit era.

This is where I totally undermine my previous argument because most of the platformers I like are 2D retro ones. Though not really old ones, now that I think about it. I played various Sonics and Mario 1-3 as a kid, and while they were fun I didn't really fall in love with them.

Cave Story, on the other hand, was amazing. And though from a technical standpoint this game would have been possible back on the SNES, from a development standpoint I feel it is very much a product of modern gaming. Muramasa: The Demon Blade is very retro-arcade, but has absolutely gorgeous art that would not have been possible on any consol before maybe Game Cube. And Super Princess Peach because I am a girl.

[Terotrous]

Cave Story, on the other hand, was amazing. And though from a technical standpoint this game would have been possible back on the SNES, from a development standpoint I feel it is very much a product of modern gaming. Muramasa: The Demon Blade is very retro-arcade, but has absolutely gorgeous art that would not have been possible on any consol before maybe Game Cube. And Super Princess Peach because I am a girl.

I also really liked Cave Story. It's story is surprisingly powerful despite how simple it is. This song is also totally amazing, too bad it doesn't appear in the game outside the sound test. Though I wouldn't say it's superior in game mechanics to something like Super Metroid or Wonder Boy 3: The Dragon's Trap. A lot of the appeal is the atmosphere and charm.


Muramasa is actually the third game in a series that also includes Princess Crown (on Sega Saturn and PSP) and Odin Sphere (on PS2), both of which also have gorgeous 2D art. A fourth game called Dragon's Crown is coming out in 2013 for PS3 and Vita. It's true that there are some very artistically nice platformers now. Another example is Kirby's Epic Yarn. The high cost of ultra-high fidelity game development is starting to push people to invest more in things like art style and atmosphere. The Wii has loads of games like this.

[spoonyliger]

And Super Princess Peach because I am a girl.

My gf would be happy to read this.

[Terotrous]

Super Princess Peach is actually a pretty decent game. It's easily better than New Super Mario Bros DS.


There's also no reason to feel embarrassed for liking it - ever since the new My Little Pony show we're living in a post-gender barriers world.

[spoonyliger]

[Yeahduff]

Anyone who didn't pick Peach in Super Mario 2 was a giant pussy.

[Yeahduff]

Also this whole brony thing has set back gender blurring back at least 20 years.

[JSConner800]

Creativity can sometimes arise from limitations. I find that a game that can convey just as much with significantly less to work with is in some ways even more impressive than a game that does it with modern technology.

This sums up my thoughts on modern gaming quite nicely. Movies, too. It takes patience, planning, and vision to work around technical limitations, and that shows in the finished product. But if you can just magic up anything you want with CGI, who cares about atmosphere or meticulously planned camera angles? If you can just dump millions of dollars into the graphics and sound, who cares if your game is one long homogenous series of firefights with only a couple of switches and vehicle sections to break up the slog? Considering how much the game industry has grown over the past twelve years, I'd say not many people. I care, though, and a lot of those older games have a special place in my heart - not just for their nostalgic value, but for the depth of their gameplay and the quality of their design. In those days, that was all a game had to rely on, so they actually had to have things like variety and a carefully crafted difficulty curve.

But enough soapboxing. I'll actually respond to the initial post.

Past:

Megaman X series
Super Metroid
Super Mario World
Kirby's Super Star
Sonic 3 & Knuckles
Einhander
Megaman Legends 2
Psychonauts
Robot Alchemic Drive
Earth Defense Force 2017
Mass Effect 1-3
And many, many more

Present:

XCOM: Enemy Unknown (An absolute must-play whether you like strategy games or not)
Red Dead Redemption
Radiant Silvergun
Resident Evil 6 (Co-op only. It's a terrible game, and I have no interest in playing by myself, but playing through it with my best friend has been a blast)

Future:

Who knows? Dishonored, maybe? I'm hoping to get my hands on Bioshock Infinite as soon as it comes out, but only time and my bank statement will tell.

[Yeahduff]

Creativity can sometimes arise from limitations. I find that a game that can convey just as much with significantly less to work with is in some ways even more impressive than a game that does it with modern technology.

This sums up my thoughts on modern gaming quite nicely. Movies, too. It takes patience, planning, and vision to work around technical limitations, and that shows in the finished product. But if you can just magic up anything you want with CGI, who cares about atmosphere or meticulously planned camera angles? If you can just dump millions of dollars into the graphics and sound, who cares if your game is one long homogenous series of firefights with only a couple of switches and vehicle sections to break up the slog? Considering how much the game industry has grown over the past twelve years, I'd say not many people. I care, though, and a lot of those older games have a special place in my heart - not just for their nostalgic value, but for the depth of their gameplay and the quality of their design. In those days, that was all a game had to rely on, so they actually had to have things like variety and a carefully crafted difficulty curve.

Eh, let's not dip too wildly in the other direction. Plenty of completely terrible games from the 8-bit era too. Expanded possibilities can give a truly imaginative mind the power to create some previously undreamed of results.

[Yeahduff]

Oh yeah, so I guess I've been playing Street Fighter 3 and Ocarina of Time.

Gaming Past.

[JSConner800]

Eh, let's not dip too wildly in the other direction. Plenty of completely terrible games from the 8-bit era too. Expanded possibilities can give a truly imaginative mind the power to create some previously undreamed of results.

I think I accidentally implied that, but I was just trying to keep from getting too far off-topic and I sort of skipped over that whole part of the argument. I'm not saying there are no good games now, and I'm not saying all of the games from the "old days" were great, I was just trying to pin down why those older (mostly 16-bit era for me) games have the compelling qualities that they do, in spite of their age and their relative simplicity.

[LibertyCabbage]

Megaman X series

I got Megaman X Collection for Game Cube preowned at GameStop for $15.

Best $15 I ever spent.

[JSConner800]

Best $15 I ever spent.

For some of the greatest SNES and PS1 games ever made? Hell yeah

[spoonyliger]

Megaman X series

I got Megaman X Collection for Game Cube preowned at GameStop for $15.

Wait, there's such a thing!? *goes on eBay*

[Yeahduff]

Eh, let's not dip too wildly in the other direction. Plenty of completely terrible games from the 8-bit era too. Expanded possibilities can give a truly imaginative mind the power to create some previously undreamed of results.

I think I accidentally implied that, but I was just trying to keep from getting too far off-topic and I sort of skipped over that whole part of the argument. I'm not saying there are no good games now, and I'm not saying all of the games from the "old days" were great, I was just trying to pin down why those older (mostly 16-bit era for me) games have the compelling qualities that they do, in spite of their age and their relative simplicity.

Hey that's cool.

Sublet talked me out of getting the X series because you can't change the default buttons. Maybe it wouldn't have been a big deal, the same thing is true of the Sonic collection and that's fine.

[Cope]

Most old Sonic games only need one button, though.

I heard the Megaman collections on the Gamecube switched the A and B buttons around. That would totally mess with my head.

[spoonyliger]

Meh... I thought the X Collection was only X 1 - 3. I already own 4 - 6 so I'd be half-wasting my money.