And on the whole sexuality issue, Japanese children typically become sexually active around the age of 15. It's not because they're immoral, it's because that's the way their culture is. They are much more open about the topic of sex and sexuality that we are here in America. In fact, I think Americans in general are some of the prudest people on the plant.
"A 15 year old girl has been charged with sexual abuse of children, possession of child pornography and dissemination of child pornography."
"The girl, whose identity was withheld, was accused of sending out photographs of herself in various states of undress and performing a variety of sexual acts. She sent them to people she met in chat rooms on the Internet, police said. "
Ph34r my delayage!
Uhm, I know a girl who was 14 when she did something like that. Some bloke theifed a disk from her bag during class, found a lot of dodgy pictures of her and printed them out (right dickwad). Police got involved but only with those who knicked, printed and/or obtained the picture, the actuall gal was just offered counciling and let free. Still, I feel pity for her and the flak she must've gotten, luckily she's an obscenely able kid and is currently planning to get into Cambridge either to take French or Maths.
KittyKatBlack wrote:The thing about Anime that sets it apart is not so much the artistic style but the content intself. A lot of the plots and stories in anime are very psycological, and a lot of people don't think of that when they look at animation. Even Don Bluth type stuff, even though much richer and mature in it's excecution is still rather simple in it's concepts. I think that whoever mentioned the grey area nature of anime over the black and white good and evil nature of more western animation is a big factor as to why it's not considered in the same class as 'regular' animation.
No offence, but I think non-anime should be protected from you.
I mean, implying that no animation but anime has depth in characterisation, psychology or complexity... You're neglecting not only european animation (Brittish, French, Hungarian, Croatian studios, recent "Corto Maltese" movie, for instance) but also american animation that is not mainstream ("Waking life", for instance).
I know that it's not reasonable to expect that you know about these as their distribution is not very good, but I know that you'd expect from me to be acquitanced with most well known anime stuff too, which I'm not, and now you probably think that I should be hit with a heavy object for that or something.
I mean, common, you're making harsh generalizations there! If you want to prove that anime is better that any other animation, I'd hardly call that defending anime.
I never said it was better. I said it was in a different class. I didn't say a higher class, just a different one. I thought I even said somewhere that I specificly was NOT saying that Anime was the best type of animation there was. And no, I don't want to hit you for saying you don't like/know anime...
...I want to hit you for misconstruing my words.
I think I'm not misconstruing them. Maybe I'm understanding them better that the one who said it. Note parts I bolded in your original post. Those undoubtedly claim anime as superior over western animation. That is, of course, if you count psychological content, complexity or lack of black/white wiev on the world as positive concepts in a comic or film, as I do.
As for hitting on the head, I think you already wanted to hit Bob earlier for not knowing about some anime earlier, I don't think I can find that thread now, though.
By the way, I've been kinda busy this last week, which is why I'm just NOW adressing these posts instead of back when they were first posted. I just haven't been around.
I never said it was bad. I mean to be honest, I loved The Secret of Nimh, but it's concepts were basic ones if you think about it. The story was unique and it was told in an entertaining fashion, but it was a simple 'good vs. evil' storyline, with good wining out in the end. On the other hand, Serial Experiments Lain was a very psycological piece of animation, but to be honest, it didn't catch my fancy and it wasn't really something I found interesting.
The concepts and the way things are done are different, but neither is better. It all depends on the way it's presented. I was just pointing out that most western (AKA US) animation is based around very simple concepts because of the basic thought here that animation is for kids and that it should be easy to understand. Unlike a lot of asian/europian animation, which is directed at a more mature audience and often deals with less obvious issues.
Serial Experiments Lain
Kino's Journey (the episode about the rabbits)
Boogiepop Phantom
Perfect Blue
Millenium Actress
Excel Saga
Cowboy Bebop
FLCL
Gunslinger Girls (fansub)
Black Heaven
All of these deal with psychological issues (yes, Excel Saga is about work ethic, loyalty and afros), the kind you only find in print or in comics labeled "For Mature Audience." Cowboy Bebop is actually the least thoughtful of the bunch, going more for entertainment value (and fan service) than the others. (Black Heaven was basically telling women to trust their husbands in all things and actually made the wife out to be the bad guy instead of the victim. I hated the series but it still fits the theme.)
Compare that to Aquateam Hunger Force, Powerpuff Girls, Samurai Jack, Teen Titans, Batman and Batman 2000, the Justice League, the various incarnations of the X-men. These are about action and adventure, good vrs. evil. The bad guys get beat up but they get back up later. Nobody is ever really hurt (even in Batman the bad guys fell into the river not onto the street).
The theme in US cartoons is that kids can't deal with mature issues. Well, kids are dealing with these issues and these cartoons aren't doing anything for them. FLCL was about puberty and what it would mean to not be a kid anymore.
Samurai Jack may be extremely cool, but there are no consequences for the character. He is invincible. He is one man against an evil empire. In the real world, one man can't change anything except ideas. When enough peoples' ideas have changed, then the evil empire will start to crumble. Say one guy with a magic sword and l33t ninja skillz attacked China and tried to overthrow Hu Jintao (or pick a random country and its leader). He might survive for a long time, evading every law enforcement agency sent to find him. He would be defeated in the public mind in about 5 seconds when Hu Jintao named him, posted his picture on TV and called him the enemy. Suddenly, Samurai Jack isn't fighting Aku anymore, he's fighting the entire country and nobody wants his help. Now picture a lone commando invading your own country. You know nothing about him. Your leader has called him dangerous and you trust your leader, right? He's armed and dangerous. You meet him on the street. What do you do?
In the real world, Samurai Jack would have been a stateman, working for change from within the government where he could not be as easily attacked as a dissident. Or, he would have been a guerilla, leading an army of rebels over many years against a vastly better equipped army. If he attacked a smaller country, he might eventually surround the capitol and capture the president but he would need the help of the military to do that. Once the president was overthrown he would either have to become the statesman or he would have to execute or imprison the members of the old government to enact the change. Then, throughout his entire lifetime he would have to deal with supporters of the old government, assassination attempts and counter-rebellions, becoming in some peoples minds worse than the original evil dictator. (Or he could pull a Mulan and return home, marry and become a good wife.)
In Samurai Jack though, most of the regular people know Aku is bad. They are pretty much enslaved and they know it. In that one episode, Aku is having storytime with the kids trying to brainwash them, but it doesn't work because they believe in Jack and that someday Aku will be beaten. He becomes like a symbol that inspires the people. As Jack continues to come into contact with people (robots don't count) that believe in Aku, he generally changes their perceptions, if only a bit in some cases (the mobsters, the slave fighter dome guy.) Jack can't take on Aku's army alone. He knows that, and thats why he's trying to go back to his time where Aku isn't in control. He's not picking fights with Aku unless it involves saving people in need (which is sort of weird considering that him returning to his time would erase everything there...) and pretty much just hiding out in the wilderness. The way the series is going, I don't think he will go back to his time. Even with that episode with the rapper time portal keeper guy, Jack's present actions seem to imply that he will end up taking on Aku and his army there instead of the past, with the backing of alot of the other bad ass (the Scottsman in particular) characters that have shown up, culminating in a final duel between him and Aku. Then he goes back in time, and it erases everything he did there.
But really, the whole concept is screwed up since he should know that if he goes back, all those people he risked his life to save would die when that timeline is destroyed by his going back, assuming he is using a fairly simple model of time travel that doesn't involve the branching time theory (or whatever its called.)
Sorta weird that Jack's dad kicked Aku's ass single handedly.
Course I hardly ever watch it though...
Wow, I've only seen 4 of those anime you listed. FLCL, Bebop, Lain, and Excel Saga.
Sharp Hall. - Ya know... don't even go there. Very NSFW
Actually, as Cartoon network nd similar shows go, older ones are classic sitcoms, but newer can raise serious philosofycal questions.
To be precise, in some episodes they raise serious questions, in some episodes they tend toward serious characterisations, but in others they simplify it, destroy the concept in whole. Example: Dexters lab is a great show with original starting point, and that very starting idea guarantees characterisation of at least two major characters not to be cliche and one-dimensional. But in most episodes it all comes down to that everything Didi does goes right, and everything Dexter does goes wrong due to circumstances. It destroys the show in whole, takes it down to a level of kid stuff. I guess the burden is a need to produce a certain number of 5min episodes, combined with overall cartoon heratage that insists on reworking Tom&Jerry or Coyote&Road-runner setup again.
Powerpuff girls reworks the idea of responsibility that comes with power (yeah, yeah, spiderman. blah). But they're kids and they can't possibly understand that responsibility. IMO episodes where you have them abusing their power nr not being able to face simple problems because they're still kids (Boogy-man) are much better than those where emphasis is on bad guys (no matter how cool Mojo-Jojo can be).
Disney movies had much better characterisation that they have now. Specifically those that were based on more mature literature, although I'm sure that, if they had a mature concept nowadays they'd find how to take it down to b/w. Well, they actually did that in Herculess - by no means in Zeus totally cool and positive guy, as Had isn't negative. But laws of market require good guy and bad guy.
In "Legend of sleepy hollow" bad guy is just a agressive willage guy and all through the comic you can't take him as a real bad guy, after all his aim isn't to harm good guy, just to take his girlfriend. Just as well, good guy isn't actually good, he's an ordinary, money-loving school teacher, with low goals. Negatives in most of films from that time are not as much negatives as they're... well, unpleasant persons. Exception are films made by tales.
I think it went down somewhere around "Oliver and company". Although I generally like this movie, "Oliver Twist" was blatantly re-worked to fit into classic bad guy - good guy cliche. The more, book isn't suitable for this treatment, cause except Oliver himself, it doesn't actually have positive characters.
As for euro films, I wish I could hand you my 11 discs collection of "Masters of animation", but it seems impossible.
I don't know if you can catch Corto Maltese movie by Pascal Morelli, from last year. It follows the original comic closely so setup must be good although it's not much enjoyable if you read the comic previously.
Hm, there's this chech guy whose name I can't remember... "Spiklenci slasti", that was his last film...
I bow to all of your abilities to blather on at greath lengths about cartoons that the original creators probably never even gave this much thought to.
mcDuffies wrote:I think it went down somewhere around "Oliver and company".
You know, when they re-released it, I tried to convince my family we had already seen it like 5 years earlier, but they wouldn't believe me. That really pissed me off. Probably ruined my childhood... Yup, because of that, I'm now a dark and cynical loner who walks down dark alleys hoping someone will try to mug him so he can commit a justifiable homicide...
I've had a bad week. College is really freaking getting me down lately. I'm close to snapping on the next real life person to screw with me.
Sharp Hall. - Ya know... don't even go there. Very NSFW
I actually liked Oliver & Company. And All Dogs Go to Heaven. But I think ADgtH was done by Don Bluth, not Disney. I thought Oliver & Company was also done by Don Bluth, but I'm not sure. At any rate I thought they were cute. I like a lot of Don Bluth's stuff, much better than Disney.
brockway wrote:I saw one where a guy tried to use a card like a weapon. He threw it and hit a guy in the head with it. Right smack in the forehead. Of course nothing happened, cause its a freaking card! Then the brother got kidnapped. Which led to more card fights. On a foggy bridge. One after the other.
I left the room after that.
Cards can slice through things, and oddly enough I found it out last night whilst watching "sushi tv" on Challenge. This guy in a section of the show stood in a street, and started slicing fruit 'n' vegetables in two with a deck of normal cards.
Edit: he was throwing the cards to slice the fruit/veg.
brockway wrote:I saw one where a guy tried to use a card like a weapon. He threw it and hit a guy in the head with it. Right smack in the forehead. Of course nothing happened, cause its a freaking card! Then the brother got kidnapped. Which led to more card fights. On a foggy bridge. One after the other.
I left the room after that.
Cards can slice through things, and oddly enough I found it out last night whilst watching "sushi tv" on Challenge. This guy in a section of the show stood in a street, and started slicing fruit 'n' vegetables in two with a deck of normal cards.
Edit: he was throwing the cards to slice the fruit/veg.
KittyKatBlack wrote:I actually liked Oliver & Company. And All Dogs Go to Heaven. But I think ADgtH was done by Don Bluth, not Disney. I thought Oliver & Company was also done by Don Bluth, but I'm not sure. At any rate I thought they were cute. I like a lot of Don Bluth's stuff, much better than Disney.
"Oliver" indeed was done by Disney. For films from same period (thus, same in style) check "Fox and hound" and "Basil the mouse detective".
In fact, when I think more, Oliver was last film before "Little mermaid", that means before the current producing/directing team took over. I particulary liked Billy Joel voicing Dodger (the main dog).
KittyKatBlack wrote:I actually liked Oliver & Company. And All Dogs Go to Heaven. But I think ADgtH was done by Don Bluth, not Disney. I thought Oliver & Company was also done by Don Bluth, but I'm not sure. At any rate I thought they were cute. I like a lot of Don Bluth's stuff, much better than Disney.
"Oliver" indeed was done by Disney. For films from same period (thus, same in style) check "Fox and hound" and "Basil the mouse detective".
In fact, when I think more, Oliver was last film before "Little mermaid", that means before the current producing/directing team took over. I particulary liked Billy Joel voicing Dodger (the main dog).
Disney for a long time seemed to be refusing to acknowledge even the existence of Oliver and Company, like they do with Song of the South, but for no apparent reason.
I still haven't figured out why they had relegated it to their historical dustbin for so many years.
brockway wrote:Wow, I've only seen 4 of those anime you listed. FLCL, Bebop, Lain, and Excel Saga.
I've seen Bebop, and didn't like it; still haven't seen Lain; and I didn't ever get to see Perfect Blue, even though it came on on the Action Channel three nights in a row... maybe I'll see it if it comes on on Animidnight.
I saw Boogiepop Phantom, but since I only got started watching it on the third episode, I had no idea what was going on, I stopped watching it.
It stopped running last week (it was on TechTV), and now they're playing Last Exile, which is pretty good.
ASMS: The school for the criminally insane.
They put us here to keep up away from the normal people.
You feared Algebra in high school? Integral Calculus is a required class here.
The Blasphemous Heretic Superlance wrote:I've seen Bebop, and didn't like it;
...
Blaspheme! How could someone not like Bebop?! The mere thought of it makes blood pour out of my eyes!!! AHHHHH!!!!
*blood pours from Brockway's eyes*
...
Kidding. But really, if you don't like Bebop, do you not like anime in general?
*still confused at the notion of someone not liking Cowboy Bebop*
Serial Experiments: Lain is neat. Since I've seen it, I've always named my computers Navi.
I liked Trigun better.
I just didn't like Bebop.
Maybe it was the 'fro.
Makes me think of the seventies, which makes me think of uhg...
Disco music.
ASMS: The school for the criminally insane.
They put us here to keep up away from the normal people.
You feared Algebra in high school? Integral Calculus is a required class here.
