Sept. 26: FSM Comic Day

Odd1 · Post by **Odd1** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:40 pm

Dammit, sometimes it sucks doing a weekly.

Anywherebuthere · Post by **Anywherebuthere** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:42 pm

You could always do a super special FSM update.

Sput · Post by **Sput** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:11 pm

I don't think I'd be able to have him- but fuck yes i'll draw something.

MixedMyth · Post by **MixedMyth** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:07 pm

christwriter wrote:weeeeeellll...

...thought about it. No. Sorry.

Lil too much like poo-ing where I sleep. Christian, support teaching of creationism next to evolution (as I believe in creation theory and that neither are mutually exclusive of the other) and all that jazz.

Ya'll have fun, though. I'll defenatley visit the spegetti monster...ing. ish. Ism.

Whatever.

CW

Here I go opening a can of worms.

But I feel it's important to discuss if any of us are going to get anywhere. Now...this isn't about the spegetti monster. I can understand why you wouldn't want to participate. I just feel that there need to be some clarifications on the topic of representing religion in government, since that is actually what the issue of teaching intelligent design comes down to. I've studied it to some degree of detail in college...you sort of have to if you take any religion courses at all.

The thing is that this isn't about an individual's beliefs, it's about the government prefering any one set of beliefs over another. And that's what teaching intelligent design in a public school setting would be doing. Now, it could be argued that most religions assume some form of creative design is common to many religions...but that still excludes those who don't believe in any religion at all.

There's been a lot of misunderstandings over the fine line that the government walks. What it comes down to is this- the government can address religion, but not represent it. For example, public schools may teach ABOUT religion- otherwise universities wouldn't have courses on christian denominations (like I took...but it was in a private college, anyhow, so it doesn't really enter into it), Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, or indiginous religions. All of which are fairly common. Back in high school, my school even offered a World Religions course. The difference is that public schools cannot TEACH religion as a belief, they can just teach about it. It's fairly easy to notice the difference between a public university course on a religion and, say, lessons such as may be found at various Sunday schools.

Nor does this mean that students can't have their religious beliefs or practice them in school. They're doing that as individuals. In high school, I'd see students forming prayer circles and the like. That's fine, so long as it's associated with the school in its capacity as a government institution.

It could also be argued that the move is to teach ABOUT creative design...but really that's not what those who are trying to institute it are trying to do. And even if it were, since it is about a belief and not about a science, it doesn't really belong in a science class- rather, it would belong in a class about religion.

Faub · Post by **Faub** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:29 pm

http://www.talkdesign.org/faqs/hunch/hunch.html

This should explain the controversy for you.
No need for a class.

The Neko · Post by **The Neko** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:07 pm

I love how they contrived the word "intelligent design" as opposed to "creationism". That's some pretty incredible marketing there.

Yeahduff · Post by **Yeahduff** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:49 pm

I support the cause and everything but......

Is this just gonna be a KeenSpace thing?

Christwriter · Post by **Christwriter** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:19 am

EDIT:

PM'ed Mixed Myth about it.

I do not want to talk about it publically. These things turn ugly fast, and I do not want to foster ugliness. Am pasting my answer into word so that if anybody ELSE wants it, I'll send it to 'em.

I am not starting another religious arguement thread. Emotional subject, irritates too many people too quickly.

CW

LibertyCabbage · Post by **LibertyCabbage** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:54 am

yeahduff wrote:I support the cause and everything but......

Is this just gonna be a KeenSpace thing?

i guess so but anyone can feel free to bring it up in other places. although if it gets bigger then the day will have to be moved back since 1 week wont be long enough to prepare.

Wishmaster · Post by **Wishmaster** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:47 pm

Haha! Replacing one fairy tale with another! Superb. I already have my strips up to Sept. 26th drawn and uploaded, but I'm going to try throwing something together. I'm in, so here's hoping my collaborator can ink it up in time.

Warren · Post by **Warren** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:24 pm

I'm steering clear of this one. Disrespect without actual questioning ain't my thing.

DJMayhem · Post by **DJMayhem** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:08 pm

Sitting out. Boo-hoo.

Gengar003 · Post by **Gengar003** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:09 pm

Warren wrote:I'm steering clear of this one. Disrespect without actual questioning ain't my thing.

To what are you referring?

Warren · Post by **Warren** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:17 pm

Gengar003 wrote:
Warren wrote:I'm steering clear of this one. Disrespect without actual questioning ain't my thing.
To what are you referring?

The fact that the FSM was created only to make fun of Christians. Once again it's the "look how clever I am because I don't believe in God" thing.

Frankly, I don't care if anyone does or doesn't believe in a higher power. But I don't ridicule those who do. I discuss philosophy, not how stupid "those fundies" are.

Gengar003 · Post by **Gengar003** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:28 pm

Warren wrote:
Gengar003 wrote:
Warren wrote:I'm steering clear of this one. Disrespect without actual questioning ain't my thing.
To what are you referring?
The fact that the FSM was created only to make fun of Christians. Once again it's the "look how clever I am because I don't believe in God" thing.

Frankly, I don't care if anyone does or doesn't believe in a higher power. But I don't ridicule those who do. I discuss philosophy, not how stupid "those fundies" are.

I did not think and do not see the FSM's purpose as mocking Christians or professing atheism. As I understood it it was being used as an argument against teaching ANY religion's creation story (as a creation "theory" or "intelligent design") in a SCIENCE classroom in PUBLIC schools. I believe seperation of church and state should not allow this.

I have nothing against any reasonable religious group, and would not support or partake in the mocking of any such group. I am not even a hardcore anti-intelligent-design proponent. What I do not want is for public schools to teach religious beliefs as science.

a.) "Reasonalbe Religous Group:" Religious groups are excluded if they do any of the following (in my opinion)
-FORCE membership
-FORCE members to partake in rituals/etc against said members' will
-BRAINWASH members, thus removing relative free will.
-Condone VIOLENCE against a religious, political, or social group or organization with no basis other than the fact that said group's beliefs differ from the religious group in question.

Or, in simpler terms, Extremists and Brainwash Cults.

That said, I will be showing my support for a.) seperation of church and state and b.) limiting of science curriculum in public schools to scientific theories by having the FSM make an appearance. That is what the FSM means to me.

The FSM should not and I believe was not intended to be offensive to anyone other than proponents of teaching religion in science class.

Warren · Post by **Warren** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:35 pm

Just remember, it's still the theory of evolution too.

However, I'm not looking for a big debate here. I said I would not participate. You asked why, and I told you. You will be participating, and I support your right to.

We can happily agree to disagree. I'm not getting all hot and bothered on this subject.

Gengar003 · Post by **Gengar003** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:43 pm

Warren wrote:We can happily agree to disagree. I'm not getting all hot and bothered on this subject.

Neither am I. I enjoy debate/discussions, especially philosophical, religious, or political ones... That doesn't leave much else, does it?

As long as we're dancing on this ice, though, I should add something:

I didn't even mention evolution; the specific theories aren't important, but in the realm of PUBLIC school SCIENCE classrooms, that theory has something going for it -- scientific evidence. If there can be produced scientific evidence for intelligent design (in addition to it being all over the news), it should be taught. However, as far as I know there has been no credible scientific evidence produced to support intelligent design, and as such, it currently, in my opinion, does not belong in a science classroom.

Peabody · Post by **Peabody** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:56 pm

In regards to the posts by MixedMyth and Gengar, very nicely said!

Gengar003 · Post by **Gengar003** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:57 pm

Oh, another one of my philosophies is this: Agree to Disagree? Sure thing! But let's keep talking about it anyway. (unsaid: And perhaps we'll reach an agreement, thus betting both ourselves)

Aaaaand that's why I think what I think.

Away from that nasty canoworms, though, Look! A Monkey! Monkeys are funny! Hee hee it's drawing a comic! Wonder what it says!

Leko · Post by **Leko** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:21 pm

My dad thinks the FSM is the coolest thing ever. He got a T-shirt.

That's all I have to say. Though I will add that I think the idea that the universe was created by something with meatballs for eyes is too damn funny for words.