manga style comics: hate them?

Post by **Kisai** » Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:56 pm

Because we run out of ideas and recycle them ^^;

ZOMBIE USER 7833 · Post by **ZOMBIE USER 7833** » Sun Mar 24, 2002 4:07 pm

Because a bunch of us weren't around for the original discussion.

One can't help being a newbie, excepting just trying really hard to not seem to be one.

Yoko-San · Post by **Yoko-San** » Sun Mar 24, 2002 4:38 pm

I do AnimeCafe...ironically I prefer drawing more American type stuff, check out my gallery then my comic...then try to love someone.

Christina · Post by **Christina** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 1:46 am

Hello again,

Thanks to everyone who replied: it was interesting seeing the range of opinions, and I was quite impressed by the well-thought out nature of a lot of responses.(I'm used to hearing- 'You like manga... you like cartoon porn... hee hee')

I especially agree that lack of originality can be a huge turn off for a comic, no matter what genre its created in.

I'd also like to apologize for reposting an old topic... I could almost guarantee to myself it had been talked about here before, but I didn't have any luck searching for a coherent past discussion, and I couldn't find a FAQ for posting content.

(swallows her Usenet Veteran Shame(tm))

Thanks again!
----

Yokoshima · Post by **Yokoshima** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 6:55 am

On 2002-03-23 19:04, Kisai wrote:

6. Drawing of characters is good, writing is good, but there are no backgrounds, or too much white/black space.

crap thats me...now I feal bad and I'ma make backgrounds and stuff for my comic...ya know...

Mixed Myth · Post by **Mixed Myth** » Sun Mar 31, 2002 4:44 pm

I've seen some really good and really bad examples of manga-influanced comics. I suppose it's a cannon...a set of rules and a style, a method of communication. (i.e. The sweatdrop for unease or embaressment, etc) It's GREAT for drama, humor, etc. But I think that the story also has to be good...it has it's own problems with stereotypes being mistaken for style. For example, hyper little catgirls. Now give one of these personality, say, a hairball problem, and they become more dynamic and interesting. Personally, I really love manga...expecially CLAMP-style manga *drool*. Mixed Myth itself has a LOT of influance from manga, though not entirely.

Sidwood · Post by **Sidwood** » Sun Mar 31, 2002 7:40 pm

I personally am not a fan of manga, anime, japanimation, what have you; and here's why:

in my opinion, the japanese style of drawing is too much of a "cookie-cutter." In most of the manga-style comics I've seen, they all look pretty much the same to me. The rules of proportion, shape, etc. are too rigid to allow much room for deviation in character style. Can you imagine "Ziggy" drawn as an anime strip? it just wouldn't be the same.

SucksToBeMe · Post by **SucksToBeMe** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 9:14 am

Okay what about a manga that's american influenced? Is that still crap? Damn and I thought my new comic would be a good one now I want to crawl my manga-influenced, american-influenced, multi cultural, half Japanese, half American self into hole.

Why can't people just read whatever? Must we be so picky? I personally don't take comics so seriously, I just read and write what amuses me. Comics are just a form of Entertainment not a religion. And if you translate "Manga" it translates as "Comic" so what the hell's the difference? You don't need screen tone or special paper to do manga it's all just comics by dammit! So what if they're cloned comics? Everything's been done before no one's an original anymore. It's okay to be influenced but if you don't develop a real style later on then you might as well be that creepy chick from Single White Female. I'd like to think my comics have it's own style but according to the majorty it's stereo typed and rejected and now I don't wanna do them anymore...I suck.

And has anyone seen my left sock? ....It's been gone for a week now...

Psiogen · Post by **Psiogen** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 2:01 pm

The point isn't that all manga-esque art styles are bad, or that non-manga art is superior, or anything like that. There are unoriginal American styles, there are unoriginal manga styles, and there are original styles in both areas. Striving for originality will always make your comic more visually interesting. Likewise, simply copying the standard "mainstream manga" style makes your comic less visually interesting. On the other hand, a strong interpretation of a fairly standard style can still make for good art-- it certainly doesn't make your comic "suck".
But if I see a comic with a strikingly unusual style, I will certainly check it out. If I see a standard manga comic, I'm more likely to pass it by.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 3:26 pm

Well, Suckstobeme, that was pretty untrue what you said! "Why can't we just read everything"... Well, nobody reads everything, everybody has his own taste. Sure, I do avoid manga, but someone might as well avoid my comic because it's not manga, or, for instance, because of france/belgian-comic influence. And that's ok! If we all had the same taste, we'd all read same few comics.
And as for my comic, it is really bad, bad, awfull comy (or stealing if you want) of some comics I like. But of course, if I haven't hoped I'd put something personal, original in it, I wouldn't do it!

Srdjan

no link to my page so this wouldn't seem like a plug.

SucksToBeMe · Post by **SucksToBeMe** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 6:51 pm

I didn't say "read everything" I said "read whatever" what I meant was just to read what amuses the mind. The comic wasn't meant to be imitation art or writing and who cares if it is? As long as you still enjoy reading it that's all that matters. This isn't competition or anything. So what if we're not original. We amuse ourselves by making these comics and try to amuse others by putting them online. These are our creepy imitation hearts and souls shed on paper and you reject them like toilet paper wiped on your ass. This isn't about originality or any of that crap it's just entertainment.

...damn that sounded corny...

And I can be a gentlewoman and not plug my "imitation" comic either. It doesn't matter if people read it, I enjoy producing it and if you don't like it so what. I just don't like the idea of someone calling my passions imitation. (disclaimer: I'm not trying to sound mean I just want people to appreciate peoples passions enough to not disrespect them, it's okay if you don't like or read it, but to start rambling about how much it sucks is a bit harsh.)

Psiogen · Post by **Psiogen** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 8:09 pm

On 2002-04-01 18:51, SucksToBeMe wrote:
This isn't about originality or any of that crap it's just entertainment.

...the same argument which is often used to defend teenybopper pop muzak. Suffice it to say, I disagree strongly, and I'm not going to get into all of my reasons here.

I'm not saying that your comic isn't good... hell, I haven't even read more than a couple of your comics, so I can't make any kind of judgement... but to dismiss the importance of originality is a mistake.

SucksToBeMe · Post by **SucksToBeMe** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 10:05 am

Well I've been forced to dismiss originality seeing as how nothing is original anymore. It's all been done. Every art style is a mimic of another perhaps combined with others. This conversation is even unoriginal but it's continued anyway.

Try to think of it this way, if you like doing something you're more than likely to do it again. I admit cloned comics are annoying sometimes but sometimes they're kinda fun. Almost every comic online I read was influenced by some other artist and some were just influenced more strongly than others. Is it wrong if you see someone wearing something nice and you decide to wear something similar? No? So why is it so wrong to express yourself similar to someone else who has common intrest?

I will admit my comic is cleche, but I have fun doing it anyway. I've read lots of imitation art comics with original stories that were entertaining and lots of "original" comics with influenced writing styles that were also entertaining. Maybe asking for originality is asking too much, all I ask for is something fun and I enjoy many comics you would probably pass by without as much as a glance. You don't have to give them a chance, but for your benifit I think you should be a little more open minded.

Sidwood · Post by **Sidwood** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 10:59 am

i dont think this conflict will ever be resolved. Sure, "manga"-style comics and AMerican-style comics both have thier strong and weak points, but the argument really just boils down to a matter of preference. Japanese-style drawing is one of those things that some people really enjoy; and some people hate, like Monty Python (of which i am a huge fan.)

If you are a fan of manga/anime/etc, i would advise you to not try to convince someone who DOESNT like it of its merits-- it simply can't be done. The same holds true in reverse.

It pains me to say it, but those who don't like manga are more likely to avoid a strip done in that style without so much as reading it, just as construction workers don't watch Lifetime and Martha Stewart doesn't watch ESPN.

carpal...tunnel..syndrome...Aggravating...

Psiogen · Post by **Psiogen** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 11:45 am

On 2002-04-02 10:05, SucksToBeMe wrote:
Well I've been forced to dismiss originality seeing as how nothing is original anymore. It's all been done.

That's what you think. Obviously, if it was easy to think of something original, everyone would be doing it.

Maybe asking for originality is asking too much, all I ask for is something fun and I enjoy many comics you would probably pass by without as much as a glance. You don't have to give them a chance, but for your benifit I think you should be a little more open minded.

Believe me, I wish I had the time to read every single comic on the internet and decide which are my favorites. I can't do that. So instead, I have to decide which comics to try out and which not to. I'm not making a quality judgement about the comics that I don't read. It's not closed-mindedness, it's common sense.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 4:52 pm

I had some pretty original ideas at the time. Only when I was starting on internet, either I didn't feel like doing it, or they just couldn't make a long daily series.
Why don't anyone ask: Why don't you like "sprite" comics or realistic comics or (insert some kind of comic) comics or...
Oh, yeah, Phythons... They're good!

Srdjan
http://mcduffies.keenspace.com

Reiko_Slave · Post by **Reiko_Slave** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 8:57 pm

On 2002-04-02 11:45, Psiogen wrote:
That's what you think. Obviously, if it was easy to think of something original, everyone would be doing it.

Hey buddy! That wink there isn't very ORIGINAL! I agree with that SucksToBeMe person with a point made in the debate on originality. Nothing is original. Nothing, much. I don't think she meant that it's easy to be original, I think she meant it's almost down right impossible. I looked at your comic to see just where your comming from and how original you really are. In my findings, I've come to the conclusion that you are also guilty of some unoriginality just like everyone else...

Believe me, I wish I had the time to read every single comic on the internet and decide which are my favorites. I can't do that. So instead, I have to decide which comics to try out and which not to. I'm not making a quality judgement about the comics that I don't read. It's not closed-mindedness, it's common sense.

Right, I'm sure. Although, I just can't seem to find any sincerity in your words...

Psiogen · Post by **Psiogen** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 9:50 pm

On 2002-04-02 20:57, Reiko_Slave wrote:
Hey buddy! That wink there isn't very ORIGINAL! I agree with that SucksToBeMe person with a point made in the debate on originality. Nothing is original. Nothing, much. I don't think she meant that it's easy to be original, I think she meant it's almost down right impossible. I looked at your comic to see just where your comming from and how original you really are. In my findings, I've come to the conclusion that you are also guilty of some unoriginality just like everyone else...

So? I never claimed to be some kind of creative genius. But that doesn't mean that originality no longer exists.
Here are two drawings by me. Tell me which one is more original:

If you agree that the drawing of Tycho is more unoriginal than the drawing on the right, then... *gasp!* Originality must still exist!
It's not black and white. Even if you can't do something that's 'pure' originality, you can still do something that's *more* original than, say, ripping off penny arcade or copying the style from a "how to draw manga" manual or whatever.
Yes, a visually unoriginal comic can be great, and a strikingly unique comic can still suck horribly. All I've been saying is that I'm more attracted to comics that try to stand out from the pack. Is that so terrible?

Believe me, I wish I had the time to read every single comic on the internet and decide which are my favorites. I can't do that. So instead, I have to decide which comics to try out and which not to. I'm not making a quality judgement about the comics that I don't read. It's not closed-mindedness, it's common sense.
Right, I'm sure. Although, I just can't seem to find any sincerity in your words...

You want insincerity?
All right, from now on, I will no longer allow myself to have first impressions. I will simply flip a coin to determine whether I read each new comic I see. Thank you for curing me of my closedmindedness.

Ajcg51 · Post by **Ajcg51** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 2:29 pm

This originality thing is just what us guitar players say...

Every song has been done. Well, the chord sequence anyway. Somewhere, somehow, it has all been done before. However, you can make something great out of a tune and make it sound completely different.

By the way, that wasnt a quote. I did know the proper saying but I forgot it and had to portray the general meaning of it.

There is no point b*tching about originality coz everything is inspired/influenced. You cannot think that your style is original coz, chances are, someone out there has had the same style before you.

And the subject of manga, I like it. Sure the definition is flimsy, but it is here to stay.

To be continued...

Alex
http://oddity.keenspace.com - launching 1st storyline now!!

http://code.keenspace.com - just got the password from keenspace!!!

Ajcg51 · Post by **Ajcg51** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 2:34 pm

oh and one more thing. I am from England. And to all you brainiacs out there, that is a part of Great Britain - y'know, that group of islands above France. You think Manga has caught on there? geez, is frustrating. The only manga people seem to know there is Pokemon and Digimon...it's embarassing. Plus, I bet all you guys and girls (got any in this topic yet?) got FAST internet connections. England has hardly even heard of DSL yet, and in those areas that they do, it costs