Furry Porn Thread (NSFW)

[Laemkral]

Seeing as I am one of the few here who actually isn't a comic artist in any way shape or form, does that make me more or less qualified to judge and be critical? I ask because MSP can try and ruin my career, but the US government may take issue with that. Also, I don't have "fans" or "followers" or "hits" or whatever to worry about.

So take that all into account when I pronounce the following as someone who isn't trying to be successful in web comics:

MSP, you are very much being a belligerent, self-important, narcissistic ass. Granted, not all of us have been darling angels in this, but you're the one most behaving like a child in my opinion. You go on about how awesome you are, how much better you apparently are, how more important your comic is compared to everyone elses, etc. You brag and brag, and quite frankly I find it incredibly off-putting. I'd tell my friends not to read it, but none of them do or ever would.

If what you do makes you happy, this whole "I'm underground and don't advertise or anything mainstream" angle you're working, go for it bro. Good luck achieving a viable and sustainable business model that will provide financial support for you and any potential dependents you may pick up during your life. Hint: the more well known you are, the more money you can make. Underground is generally not the road to financial success or independence as a web comic artist. But if you manage to make it work then all the more power to you.

But I'll read just about everyone else's comics on here before I'd be caught dead giving you a hint of web traffic.

[KWill]

As to the "trolling": My impression has been that there were some logical disconnects in what you've said and then some posters pointed them out. You got really defensive about it and started calling people names. Naturally that means that people will be disinclined to be civil towards you and it escalated.

I didn't start calling people names. Even after others started calling me names, I tried to keep my cool, and I pretty much managed to do that, except for a little bit more recently. That I managed to stay leveled for so long directly contradicts the attempted presentation of me, which is why I noted the trolling in this thread.

Well, the first namecalling starts about here:

I don't. It's just hilarious that this is the one active thread around here and it's about some asshole who's pissed off because a bunch of horny talentless deviants don't want to play with him.

You're not interested in my comic, you don't care about my opinions, why post here? One who discusses something he's thinking about is not an asshole. An asshole is someone who trolls a thread he didn't have any interest in in the first place.

It's rather clearly you doing it. Unless the accusations of trolling are also considered namecalling, in which case that starts off about here:

They want HORNDOGS and free-[illegible] to shut up so they can continue living in their retarded fantasy world.

Are you trolling? You really don't recognize the word "thinkers"?

Again, you're the first person to do it. You noted the trolling fairly early in the thread, not "for so long".

So how do you know you were banned for talking about marijuana? How can we verify that this is actually the case?

As I said, this is the conclusion my characters jump to. I believe there is a political grudge here because the content does not violate any rule of the group or website, and no submissions were rejected. What is said in my comics doesn't have any bearing to what actually goes on because there's a huge difference between what is said by me and what is said by a cartoon dog.

Where did you say that?

[Turnsky]

*stuff Laem said*.

Granted if the threat of "ruining one's career" didn't seem to ring so hollow it might as well be made of air, you might have some room for concern.... however remote.

[Chilari]

Oh this is brilliant. I got linked this thread in twitter. I'm a thewebcomiclist.com forum regular and moderator and I remember when Isaac over there came to visit us. This is the thread, if anyone wants to know.

I just wanted to point out a flaw in logic nobody seems to have picked up on. Namely, that oppression of freedom of speech is very different from not wanting someone in your group. For example, I think Nick Griffin (leader of the British National Party, which is a party of racist fascists), is a complete dick and I don't want to have anything to do with him; if he tried to join, say, the university society I am secretary of, I'd tell him to fuck off. And while I certainly disagree with him on his policies on immigration and whatnot, I'd defend his right to say x-factor is inane shit, if he felt like saying that and people tried to stop him from saying it. This is the difference between suppressing free speech and not wanting them to be part of your group, a difference Mr Baranoff seems have ignored.

Also:

Troll: One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.

So let's tick off the factors here:
1. Deliberately starts an argument for amusement - cannot substantiate because we cannot know what's going on in MSP's mind.
2. Doesn't listen to arguments - check.
3. Ad hominem attacks - check.
4. No substance or evidence to back up arguments - check.
5. Avoiding the real issue - check.

You're a troll.

Oh and as for my career: you can't ruin it. For a start, I don't have one yet, I'm a postgraduate student and in any case I don't have a comic. Secondly, you appear to have no influence on the comic community. You are universally ridiculed and if you told people not to read my hypothetical future comic, they might just read it out of spite. Thirdly, you have no influence in my chosen career path (and you don't know what that even is or for that matter who I am), whereas my professors, who publish books and articles on a regular basis, do. And they're the people who are my referees on my CV. Finally, do you seriously care so much about being insulted on the internet that you'd attempt to ruin someone's career over it? That is so incredibly pathetic. Get a life.

[MSPcomix]

Underground implies hidden, you give your full name right next to your comic, plus advertise it freely on the CG forums. Your not hiding it from the spotlight at all, thus you are NOT underground. Just because your not THAT popular does not mean that you are not a little popular and thus cannot be underground. You talk about having a "status" and having a "following" to give yourself power over this situation and the posters on this thread. Things that are underground do not have a status OR a following they know of because they, and they're followers keep themselves underground and hidden from public view, which you DO NOT. By the way, Facebook and Twitter are both totally the opposite of anything "underground".

Underground means non-corporate. All of my comics are produced by a non-corporate entity. They're underground.

Troll: One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.

So let's tick off the factors here:
1. Deliberately starts an argument for amusement - cannot substantiate because we cannot know what's going on in MSP's mind.
2. Doesn't listen to arguments - check.
3. Ad hominem attacks - check.
4. No substance or evidence to back up arguments - check.
5. Avoiding the real issue - check.

You're a troll.

1. I didn't start any argument. I saw my work censored, and I felt the need to comment on it. A few people DID comment on it and showed legitimate support and appreciation, but then people started trolling me to rank up the popularity of their own comics.
2. I listen to and respond to all legitimate opposing arguments.
3. I didn't attack anyone.
4. I backed up my own arguments with legitimate substance and evidence, which the opposition did not
5. I didn't avoid any issue.

I didn't say anything about attempting to ruin anyone else's career. Dissing MSP means that you end your career on your own. It's a fact - I haven't heard from any comics artist who's ever dissed me since.

[MSPcomix]

Dude, check out that super impressive Twitter follower list

I block all spammers, so the only followers I keep are actual people, which is why I don't have as many followers as, say, Paris Hilton.

[Chilari]

I didn't say anything about attempting to ruin anyone else's career. Dissing MSP means that you end your career on your own. It's a fact - I haven't heard from any comics artist who's ever dissed me since.

Lol that's hilarious. You know that thread of TWCL I linked? All the people posting in it still have comics going strong. Just because you haven't heard from them doesn't mean their comics folded after they "dissed" you. What do you think is happening here, some sort of karma?

Thanks for ignoring my key point, by the way. You seem to be doing that a lot, ignoring anything you can't find some witty retort to, ie, everything that's true, and attacking people based on other parts of their posts.

[MSPcomix]

My main comic still has a large underground following. Not only that, I just started a new comic on a major comedy website. Whereas the clique you run with is still at the bottom of the barrel, producing shit comics and not getting anywhere. I don't care to look at TWCL, because I don't need to see what a dead career looks like. I already know that your buddies are complete fucking losers.

Time for your family to dress up in black
Time for your coffin to ride in the back
Time for your enemies to laugh at your death
Time for the vultures to pick at what's left
Time for your homeboy to find a new clique
Time for your girlfriend to suck a new dick
Time for your brothers to fight over your car
Time for the world to forget who the fuck you are

[MSPcomix]

Your feed on Twitter is mind-bogglingly retarded. You're really trying to get away with calling A MAJOR UNDERGROUND CARTOONIST a troll? Are you that fucking stupid? In complete disregard of the fact that I have always tried to AVOID seeking attention, and that the only time there's any trolling around me is when you fucking losers decide to try and play "jock bully picks on the nerdy scrub". I am not participating in your stupid, childish shit.

[ChaosBurnFlame]

Your feed on Twitter is mind-bogglingly retarded. You're really trying to get away with calling A MAJOR UNDERGROUND CARTOONIST a troll? Are you that fucking stupid? In complete disregard of the fact that I have always tried to AVOID seeking attention, and that the only time there's any trolling around me is when you fucking losers decide to try and play "jock bully picks on the nerdy scrub". I am not participating in your stupid, childish shit.

hey, why won't you try to avoid attention right now and stop posting? And stop participating by... stop posting?

[Chilari]

You don't care what TWCL says and thinks because you went there and everyone saw you for what you really are: a troll. So you left in a huff. That doesn't mean that everyone suddenly lost all their followers through some sort of karmic magic because they didn't like your comic. Those aren't dead careers, they're growing comics; some of them aren't making any money, it's true, but then some of those comickers aren't interested in making money from their comics, they're interested in enjoying the process, and if they are, well, that's a success by their own criteria.

As for your charming little poem, is that a death threat? Cause that's what is sounds like. Well, that's what it sounds like you're trying to do, though I have neither a girlfriend nor a dick, or for that matter a car or a plurality of brothers, though it does look my one brother already has claim to mum's car when she upgrades to the obligatory "kids moving out sports car" at some point in the next year or two, due to needing a car for his job, which I don't. Because I'm a student. But anyway, yeah, don't mess around making death threats to people because you can't think of anything to counter the fact that they made a valid point in an argument.

[MSPcomix]

I didn't "leave in a huff". I was banned by an egowhore who couldn't handle the fact that my comic was getting more hits than hers.

[Chilari]

Your feed on Twitter is mind-bogglingly retarded. You're really trying to get away with calling A MAJOR UNDERGROUND CARTOONIST a troll? Are you that fucking stupid? In complete disregard of the fact that I have always tried to AVOID seeking attention, and that the only time there's any trolling around me is when you fucking losers decide to try and play "jock bully picks on the nerdy scrub". I am not participating in your stupid, childish shit.

"Get away with"? That's hilarious. Seriously. On the topic of free speech, I do believe I'm perfectly entitled to call you a troll. There's no association of Beings Who Live Under Bridges and Don't Like Billy Goats trying to get all PC on the word "troll" yet. I can call you what the hell I like. Hell, I can say Brad Pitt is a tosser if I want. Or David Cameron is a wanker. How about that? I do believe I'll get away scott free with it.

As for jock bullies picking on nerdy scrubs, well, that analogy doesn't work on the internet, where everyone in forums like these are geeks anyway. And in all fairness you are holding a sign that says "pick on me!" whenever you call people assholes, argue that your comic is a major underground comic, say it's not porn when it clearly is, etc. You want people to be nice to you? Act with some civility and a touch of humility, and listen to their arguments rather than dismissing them out of hand because they're not a sufficient authority for you due to not having thousands of readers. YOu know, I'd love for someone big in comics to come and say "you're a troll" to you, that'd make my day. Where's Scott McCloud or Stan Lee when you need them?

Also, you did leave in a huff. You kept changing the title of your thread, insulting people like the wonderful Wendy, admin at TWCL who banned you (who by the way is one of the nicest and most civil and patient people I have met on the internet, and certainly no egowhore).

Also, do you not have any further comment on that there death threat you made to me? Not trying to deny it or erase it? Let's just quote it for posterity in case you edit your post to try to hide it:

Time for your family to dress up in black
Time for your coffin to ride in the back
Time for your enemies to laugh at your death
Time for the vultures to pick at what's left
Time for your homeboy to find a new clique
Time for your girlfriend to suck a new dick
Time for your brothers to fight over your car
Time for the world to forget who the fuck you are

[MSPcomix]

It's not a death threat, and it's not directed at you, you egotistical twat. You're not a comics artist, and you don't have a career, therefore, no career death.

[Laemkral]

Man, two separate forums don't like this guy. I'm almost beginning to feel sorry for him.

It's not a death threat, and it's not directed at you, you egotistical twat. You're not a comics artist, and you don't have a career, therefore, no career death.

I'm curious, good sir. If it isn't a death threat, what is it? Who IS it directed at?

[Turnsky]

Man, two separate forums don't like this guy. I'm almost beginning to feel sorry for him.

It's not a death threat, and it's not directed at you, you egotistical twat. You're not a comics artist, and you don't have a career, therefore, no career death.

I'm curious, good sir. If it isn't a death threat, what is it? Who IS it directed at?

nobody, everybody. sounds like emo kid scrawl to me.

[Chilari]

So you still have nothing to say about my logical argument then, you know, the one where suppressing free speech is different from simply not wanting someone to be associated with your group? Or do you find it impossible that they wouldn't want you to be in their club? See, that's egotistical. I am perfectly aware that there are people and groups out there who don't like me, or don't want me to be in their group, and that's not because I'm wrong or they're wrong, it's just because we have differences in opinion. Well, Twilight fans are wrong, let's just get that one clear, but, say, the university football club really wouldn't me in their club on account of I'm terrible at football.

[Turnsky]

So you still have nothing to say about my logical argument then, you know, the one where suppressing free speech is different from simply not wanting someone to be associated with your group? Or do you find it impossible that they wouldn't want you to be in their club? See, that's egotistical. I am perfectly aware that there are people and groups out there who don't like me, or don't want me to be in their group, and that's not because I'm wrong or they're wrong, it's just because we have differences in opinion. Well, Twilight fans are wrong, let's just get that one clear, but, say, the university football club really wouldn't me in their club on account of I'm terrible at football.

Indeed. also, i think the only reason nobody here has actually gone and "dissed" his stuff, is that most of us don't want to sink to his level as well as go against the various forum rules in place therin, and not through some fabricated fear of losing their "career" over it.

Edit: Actually "Freedom of speech" really only applies to public domain, and not things owned by private citizens of varying nationalities and so on. Being Banned/Kicked/asked to leave/whatever is them expression their freedom of speech that they want nothing to do with him whatsoever.

And they're perfectly entitled to that, and judging by the way our little friend here is acting, and HAS acted in the past apparently, perfectly justified in it as well.

And MSPComix, just because you say something is so, doesn't make it so. My opinion: you're talking out of your posterior with talk about being popular and being at this since '03 or whatever.

GOOGLE TURNS UP NOTHING, other than the various little facets of your ego that you maintain yourself, including the copy/pasted wiki and tropes entries.

hey look, me exercising my right to free speech, how about that?

[Chilari]

Also, I just noticed something. Clique and dick don't rhyme. And death and left are dodgy too. A death threat poem which doesn't even rhyme properly.

[ChaosBurnFlame]

Also, I just noticed something. Clique and dick don't rhyme. And death and left are dodgy too. A death threat poem which doesn't even rhyme properly.

Maybe that's how the underground poem readers swing.
All that ding-a-ling.